Tora Harris, Founder: Juiced is Developing a Folding Bike
- Thread starter Asher
- Start date
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
So my big question for @Tora Harris would be; Do you have any plans to offer a motor upgrade like the MAC motor in the Hyper Scrambler for your other bikes (especially the CCS)?????
Honestly, this is about the only thing I'd like to change about my CCS. Having the top speed limited by the current motor winding leaves me wanting more. 9th gear is essentially unusable on this bike unless I am going down a good hill, and even then the motor is providing zero assistance at those speeds (>34mph).
I know I could potentially do this on my own, but would love a "plug and play" option from the factory even if it costs more than what I could do it for on my own.
Honestly, this is about the only thing I'd like to change about my CCS. Having the top speed limited by the current motor winding leaves me wanting more. 9th gear is essentially unusable on this bike unless I am going down a good hill, and even then the motor is providing zero assistance at those speeds (>34mph).
I know I could potentially do this on my own, but would love a "plug and play" option from the factory even if it costs more than what I could do it for on my own.
Rob02150
Active Member
I'd love that. It could be as simple as just being sent the wheel with the motor installed along with the controller if needed. It's easy to remove the controller and rear wheel. Even if there was a "recycle" program where you can do a complete rear wheel / controller swap out and have a get a discount. But then again I was hoping for an upgrade option like this back when the CCS got announced and I had recently gotten a regular CC.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Dream ebike: Juiced Hyper Swift - CCS with 1100 watt motor, plus size tires (2.3", clearance up to 3"), rigid fork, alloy fenders and stock 19ah 52V battery. And Shimano Deore 10 speed.
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Fran Fabrizio
Member
What's curious to me is that I speed limit my CCS to 20mph and I still often find myself in 8th or 9th gear without giving much effort. Why is the experience so much different for @Chris Hammond?
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
Chris pedals at a frantically high cadence, like a chihuahua running from a mountain lion, so in order to be in 9th gear at those high rpm's, he'd have to be going like 40 mph.
Or so I believe.
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
I do find it uncomfortable to ride with a very slow cadence. I don't have a cadence meter on any of my bikes, but based on my experience on the spin bike in the gym, I generally like to keep my cadence between 80-110 RPM. I do know I am able to pedal my CCS over 40 mph on downhills and feel comfortable with the cadence. I guess if anyone has a meter on their bike, let me know what your cadence is in 9th gear at ~20 mph. Then double that to know how fast I am willing to spin at ~40 mph.
I do know that at 33-34 mph I am willing to shift up from 8th to 9th, but the jump in gear drops my cadence enough that I'm never in 9th very long unless its on a sustained downhill where I am accelerating above the bike's assist capability.
I do know that at 33-34 mph I am willing to shift up from 8th to 9th, but the jump in gear drops my cadence enough that I'm never in 9th very long unless its on a sustained downhill where I am accelerating above the bike's assist capability.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
I don't think I've ever put it in 9th at 20 mph. I'll give it a try for the sake of science, though.
I don't have a cadence sensor either. Several times I've started counting when I'm pedaling at what feels right to me and the sweep second hand on my watch hits 12, and keep counting for 60 seconds. Accurate enough for my purposes. I'm always in the 70-75 range, pretty much no matter what gear I'm in, unless I want to accelerate, in which I case I drop down a gear or two and get up around 85 for a little bit.
So we'll try 9th gear at 20 mph, but I expect it will feel like I'm bogging down. More will be revealed.
Glad you took my joshing in stride.
Rooster
Active Member
Motor doesn't have much to do with it. You would have to go a 52v battery that would be capable of say 50amps and a 30 or 40 amp controller, I'm sure the motor you have would take it and it would probably do 40mph. If you have to you could put a bottom bracket torque sensor from grin to keep torque sensor if you like. Hell, if you have the money you may as well go with the phase runner controller and cycle analyst from grin, l'm sure that controller will fit in the frame and there you have it, you don't need Tora to do that. You're dream bike. As far as tire size you would have to talk to Reid about that ?.
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
I already have the 52V 21Ah battery.
But I am not sure the controller is the only limitation. If I am pedaling downhill, the bike stops assisting above a given mph limit that is clearly tied to the available voltage in the battery at the time. I have only fully charged my battery to its 58.8 V limit twice. At that V the bike will assist up to ~37.5 mph. I normally only charge to 80% which is 55.4V, at that level the bike assists up to ~34 mph and this drops slowly as the pack is depleted. Also
When I am hitting the assisted speed limit of the bike, the real time power consumption drops to ~ 28 watts, so I know I am not pulling much in Amps either. If the hill is steep enough that I can continue accelerating above that the bike provides no assistance.
Also as you approach this assisted limit the W consumption drops as you near the limit. This is actually a kinda cool feature, as it allows me to be cruising above 30 mph and pulling between 100-500W when I have enough of a tailwind or a slight downhill.
But I am not sure the controller is the only limitation. If I am pedaling downhill, the bike stops assisting above a given mph limit that is clearly tied to the available voltage in the battery at the time. I have only fully charged my battery to its 58.8 V limit twice. At that V the bike will assist up to ~37.5 mph. I normally only charge to 80% which is 55.4V, at that level the bike assists up to ~34 mph and this drops slowly as the pack is depleted. Also
When I am hitting the assisted speed limit of the bike, the real time power consumption drops to ~ 28 watts, so I know I am not pulling much in Amps either. If the hill is steep enough that I can continue accelerating above that the bike provides no assistance.
Also as you approach this assisted limit the W consumption drops as you near the limit. This is actually a kinda cool feature, as it allows me to be cruising above 30 mph and pulling between 100-500W when I have enough of a tailwind or a slight downhill.
I wonder about the compatibility of the Grin stuff. I know in one of @Tora Harris videos of the climbing to the lake in China on a CCS he had a Cycle Analyst installed on the test bike he was riding. After my bike is no longer under warranty, I may be willing to do some experimentation.
Rooster
Active Member
It would have solved a lot of problems like not having an LCD display on the ocean current if Tora would have had these Bikes set up to plug and play a cycle analyst from the git go and I don't think it would have been that hard to do but I guess he had his reasons hell it's just a matter of a couple of wires being soldered in the controller.
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hurricane56
Active Member
It’s possible to ditch the Juiced Bikes controller and move to something better like a Grin Tech Phaserunner. You might not even need a different motor, you just need a way to provide more amps to the motor you have.
Compatibility with the Juiced Bikes combination torque/cadence sensor is possible with an aftermarket controller, but the cadence signal sends too many pulses per second for most controllers to interpret. The torque sensor is nothing special, it’s based on a 5v signal that increases from about .85v at rest to around 4v at full output.
Compatibility with the Juiced Bikes combination torque/cadence sensor is possible with an aftermarket controller, but the cadence signal sends too many pulses per second for most controllers to interpret. The torque sensor is nothing special, it’s based on a 5v signal that increases from about .85v at rest to around 4v at full output.
hurricane56
Active Member
Yes, BMS has a limiter set to roughly 40amps, but I think the sweet spot is around 30amps and the bike running at 1100w. At 1100w you can hold a nice steady cruise at 30mph in most wind conditions.
As a side note on Juiced Bikes batteries. There was some documentation or webpage during the HF1000 campaign that listed the 48v battery as 45amp capable, which is not correct.
Rooster
Active Member
Am I the only person that is having a problem with this website? It seems to be slooooow and unpredictable. Half the time it doesn't work and I get the oops message. Just wondering if it's my side but it's not doing it on any other site??? Like right now ,I tried to
put this message up and it said "oops you have to wait 2700 seconds". What is that all about? Help Ann, please.
put this message up and it said "oops you have to wait 2700 seconds". What is that all about? Help Ann, please.
Fran Fabrizio
Member
Alright some 9th gear / 20 mph experiments completed. Very unscientifically, it's probably 40-50rpm at 20mph in 9th gear. This would be super uncomfortable on a non-assisted bike, but because I'm just trying to trigger the torque sensor enough to cause the motor to assist, I'm not pushing that hard. Having said that, the most comfortable gears for me at 20mph are 7th (60-70 rpm) or 8th (50-60 rpm). I think I'm most commonly in 7th but pretty regularly in 8th, as well. Basically, the way I end up cruising at 20mph in 9th is that I was coming down a hill so I shifted into 9th, and when things leveled out and I slowly roll back down to 20mph and my assist kicks back in (I speed limit to 20), 9th is not uncomfortable enough to make me want to shift.
My whole goal at 20mph is to stay at 20mph, not to accelerate, which may be why I don't find 9th annoying at that speed.
Very unscientifically, it's probably 40-50rpm at 20mph in 9th gear. This would be super uncomfortable on a non-assisted bike, but because I'm just trying to trigger the torque sensor enough to cause the motor to assist, I'm not pushing that hard. Having said that, the most comfortable gears for me at 20mph are 7th (60-70 rpm) or 8th (50-60 rpm). I think I'm most commonly in 7th but pretty regularly in 8th, as well. Basically, the way I end up cruising at 20mph in 9th is that I was coming down a hill so I shifted into 9th, and when things leveled out and I slowly roll back down to 20mph and my assist kicks back in (I speed limit to 20), 9th is not uncomfortable enough to make me want to shift. My whole goal at 20mph is to stay at 20mph, not to accelerate, which may be why I don't find 9th annoying at that speed.
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