Too many threads lately, lots of new eriders

[BigNerd]

It's the business model of bikes direct to consumers. YOU are your own tech support and warranty repair surface. The battery will likely be built with substandard components and have no warranty. Many of these companies out of reach of any consumer protection. BUT you COULD take a favorite bike and kit it for $1500 and have an eBike you can maintain and have the support of the kit building community.

Hmmm... Ride1Up, Sondors and Aventon have warranties and support... Aventon even sells through LBS so you can get local support.

 

[tomjasz]

Hmmm... Ride1Up, Sondors and Aventon have warranties and support... Aventon even sells through LBS so you can get local support.

Sure, there are exceptions, but sorting can be frustrating. As an aside, I once worked for an eBike kit seller that handled Sondors upgrades. By the time the Sondors bikes were up to snuff and offered satisfying rides similar to the competition riders invested another $600 to $1000. In some cases more. You're skilled enough to make the warranty repairs? Perfect. However, there are very many frustrated buyers that posted threads here when they discovered a warranty is meaningless if the company is slow to respond, or if a battery goes bad and you can't legally ship it back. And if you could ship battery to China the cost would rock your pocketbook.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

I guess the problem in North America is that we do not have an established ebike industry.

I know a few people in Japan or visit there, and 90% of ebikes are made by Bridgestone, Yamaha and Panasonic. They can be bought for around $1,000 and come with good warranty.
$1000 in North America is not going to get you a decent bike, other than some Chinese bike.

Nobody is making a good $1000 ebike. They are building/using the same bikes they have for the last decade and stringing a hub-motor into a wheel. That doesn't make them good that simply makes them available. People expect so much for so little now... it comes from having more than they needed their entire lives. One of the things I like about living in North America is that we simply don't need an "industry" to decide will make them the most profit possible and then force that paradigm down our throats. An ebike is a bicycle with a motor, it doesn't have to be a proprietary frame, motor, controller, or extremely overpriced, extremely undersized batteries.

 

[BigNerd]

Nobody is making a good $1000 ebike. They are building/using the same bikes they have for the last decade and stringing a hub-motor into a wheel. That doesn't make them good that simply makes them available.

I'm hoping that changes. Accessibility will build the market. Just like the Model 3 has done for EVs.

There seems to be offerings as of late that look good for people like me who don't really understand the nuances of torque, watts, amps, etc. I know I'm in the minority here but I have to start somewhere.

People expect so much for so little now... it comes from having more than they needed their entire lives. One of the things I like about living in North America is that we simply don't need an "industry" to decide will make them the most profit possible and then force that paradigm down our throats. An ebike is a bicycle with a motor, it doesn't have to be a proprietary frame, motor, controller, or extremely overpriced, extremely undersized batteries.

Yes... but the masses need their "gateway" ebike.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

There seems to be offerings as of late that look good for people like me who don't really understand the nuances of torque, watts, amps, etc. I know I'm in the minority here but I have to start somewhere.

Good idea! Start by just buying an ebike off the shelf rather than learning the "nuances" for yourself so you can get it right the 1st time. Or just wait. Maybe after a decade or more, some companies will start to build high-quality ebikes and will take the time to spoon feed consumers what they can learn for themselves right now. Because manufacturers know way better what you want that you do, and wouldn't rip people off with cheap POSs like they are now... right? Are you going to use the same thinking when it comes to a new Covid-19 inoculation? Don't bone-up and learn for yourself just take the 1st shot someone holds up? Faulty thinking.

 

[Art Deco]

Is building your own ebike better than buying one that is built as an ebike?

I guess I'm a very casual biker compared to everyone here and not mechanically inclined to build one... I'm not even looking forward to assembling a 90% built direct to consumer ebike.

Seems like I have a much different approach than most of the regulars here... I guess because we've been satisfied with those $100-$200 big box store bikes all these years.

Some folks on here are fanatics, true, but not most. Many ride more expensive bikes b/c of cheaper bikes habit of falling apart or breaking down in a season or two. Look at all the trek, giant, and specialized posts on here ... those are all bike shop bikes, not sold online and they have local service departments for the mechanically challenged.

 

[BigNerd]

Good idea! Start by just buying an ebike off the shelf rather than learning the "nuances" for yourself so you can get it right the 1st time. Or just wait. Maybe after a decade or more, some companies will start to build high-quality ebikes and will take the time to spoon feed consumers what they can learn for themselves right now. Because manufacturers know way better what you want that you do, and wouldn't rip people off with cheap POSs like they are now... right?

Some of us can't afford it or have the time to get educated enough about it to get it "right". Some of us just want to find an ebike in our budget that fits the style and general features we are looking for. I don't know very much about the engine details of my cars but I buy them because of the brand, price and overall features.

It's just like non-ebikes. While the ones who know, can and will spend more on higher end bikes, there is still a very large market for the $100 bikes from Walmart/Target/etc who are just fine with them. I have had a few of those bikes through the years and they worked fine for my family's casual outings... I still have a cheap 7-speed "mountain" bike from 10 years ago and now we let our kids friends borrow it when they don't have their own bike.

Are you going to use the same thinking when it comes to a new Covid-19 inoculation? Don't bone-up and learn for yourself just take the 1st shot someone holds up? Faulty thinking.

Really? This is a "faulty" comparison. I'm talking about a consumer product and you're bringing a health issue into this conversation.

I get that I'm new here... but why so judgmental? People have different perspectives, situations and viewpoints... we all can't be experts or rich... so we look for what fits us.

 

[BigNerd]

Some folks on here are fanatics, true, but not most. Many ride more expensive bikes b/c of cheaper bikes habit of falling apart or breaking down in a season or two. Look at all the trek, giant, and specialized posts on here ... those are all bike shop bikes, not sold online and they have local service departments for the mechanically challenged.

I get that. It's the same situation with non-ebikes.

But, that's because many here use their ebikes more than casual people like me. As I said, I'm not looking to commute daily or conquer a mountain... I just want something that can help with inclines/etc because I'm not young anymore and if it can save me from using my car for errands, that's a bonus... and there are many others who feel the same way. We can't afford a $5k or even a $3k bike, but if there is a $1k bike (or less) and I can get service from an LBS when I need it, that just seems like a reasonable ask.

And I do see a number of posts here about online ebikes too. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, but why would EBR review these ebikes if there wasn't a market for them?

 

[RandallS]

A few months back, it was doable to relax and read last 2 days posts in 20-25min. and reply for some.
Now, there are 3-4x as many threads and sometimes loooong posts. Not Complaining , b/c i also wrote some looooong posts recently, just rambling.

I'm trying to limit my time on ebr 15-25minutes,2x/week . Is hard b:c we want to know the latest, greatest and so on.

And there is also maybe the most imp. aspect the camaraderie , many great people are praent through their writing here, and lots of POSITIVITY is shared ,which we all need nowadays.

How do you guys feel about the amount of info/threads generated lately and how do you use it ?

I maybe might be a little fussy, but could the title of this thread be edited to change the word "lost" to what I am sure was the intended - "lot's"?

Too many years dealing with technical writing... I think there's another thread somewhere on this site with others who share my issues with words and punctuation.

The technology we rely on, with it's spell correction, often gets it horribly wrong - sometimes with hilarious results. And of course, I get caught out on this as well, just like everyone else.

 

[BigNerd]

"Some of us can't afford it or have the time to get educated enough about it to get it "right"... I think you meant too lazy to bother trying to "get it right". Enjoy the POS. I'm out!

Thanks for being receptive to my situation. I really appreciate members like you who have no patience for newbies like me... or maybe I don't know your story and you've been dealing with similar posts and I was the last straw.

Before you go, is it your opinion that a manufacturer can't make a quality $1k-1.5k ebike for the casual riders like myself now or in the near future?

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, but why would EBR review these "POS" ebikes if there wasn't a market for them?

Money... it's their job to get people to spend money. Nobody said there wasn't a market. W.C. Fields... "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

[RandallS]

Nice... ok. Now I can fix "Today Ride." That's bothered me since I fat-fingered it. Thanks.

I know I am being pedantic, but it's bucketing down here and I am bored...

 

[Hectors Ghost]

I know I am being pedantic, but it's bucketing down here and I am bored...

Had to look up the term "bucketing down"... never heard that. Rain coming down in buckets yes, but not bucketing down. Learn something every day if ya listen to replies and do more than the minimum. Stay safe.

 

[GenXrider]

$1000 in North America is not going to get you a decent bike, other than some Chinese bike.

Ha. My 13 year old Trek is a Chinese bike. It's not an e-bike, but I actually spent the extra money, about $1000, for a higher end model back in 2007. After just about 4 months and 1000 miles of riding, mostly on rural roads, the derailleur failed, also causing some damage to the real wheel/spokes. The dealer bike shop where I bought it said it was wear and tear and that it wasn't covered under warranty. I argued with the guy for a while, and he finally agreed to replace it, but he said he couldn't replace it with what had been on there. So, I still wasn't very satisfied with that at the time. But, now, 12+ years later, the replacement derailleur has held up fine under the same conditions of riding and maintenance as the original. If I hadn't argued with them for a while, they would have charged me for parts and labor!

 

[Art Deco]

I get that. It's the same situation with non-ebikes.

But, that's because many here use their ebikes more than casual people like me. As I said, I'm not looking to commute daily or conquer a mountain... I just want something that can help with inclines/etc because I'm not young anymore and if it can save me from using my car for errands, that's a bonus... and there are many others who feel the same way. We can't afford a $5k or even a $3k bike, but if there is a $1k bike (or less) and I can get service from an LBS when I need it, that just seems like a reasonable ask.

And I do see a number of posts here about online ebikes too. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, but why would EBR review these ebikes if there wasn't a market for them?

There is a huge market for casual riders, that's what I am. And I started my search looking at $1000 absolute maximum price ebikes. That changed after a few test rides, b/c of two things ... the quality of the cheaper bikes I found, and wanting to spend my money with a local bike shop instead of giving it to Amazon. YMMV.

 

[BigNerd]

No! I wanted to sit and do nothing so someone could "help" me think for myself. Actually, I just didn't care enough about it to bother. But when I wanted to replace a car with $10K (more like 15 to 20) of bike and gear that I want to last and be useful... I do more than the least I can do. K-Mart and Walmart both have websites, don't they? And I bet they will both tell you exactly what you want to hear... at least until they have taken your money. Shouldn't have to explain this to a real nerd, especially a large one.

Obviously if I am spending $10k on a bike I will do more research on it. But I'm not. It's all relative. Do you research your next phone or just plunk down $800-$1200? Some do, some don't. Same thing with cars (as I mentioned before).

I can posit that some people who will spend $5k or more on an ebike actually are overspending. Just like buying that $2k laptop is nice but when it comes down to it, for the things you do, a $500 laptop works perfectly. At the same time, those "POS" bikes (that you call them) at KMart and Walmart serve a purpose. There are many people who can only afford those bikes and they serve them well for what they do with them. I don't think of them as lazy or helpless.

Again, people who really use their ebikes daily and puts thousands of miles on it, maybe a ~$1k ebike isn't for them (although I've seen some posts where people are putting some miles on these value ebikes)... but I wouldn't disparage anyone, especially a new member, who is asking about that particular price range.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Ha. My 13 year old Trek is a Chinese bike. It's not an e-bike, but I actually spent the extra money, about $1000, for a higher end model back in 2007. After just about 4 months and 1000 miles of riding, mostly on rural roads, the derailleur failed, also causing some damage to the real wheel/spokes. The dealer bike shop where I bought it said it was wear and tear and that it wasn't covered under warranty. I argued with the guy for a while, and he finally agreed to replace it, but he said he couldn't replace it with what had been on there. So, I still wasn't very satisfied with that at the time. But, now, 12+ years later, the replacement derailleur has held up fine under the same conditions of riding and maintenance as the original. If I hadn't argued with them for a while, they would have charged me for parts and labor!

You're equating a 2007 bicycle with a 2020 ebike? I don't think that's a fair comparison but, ok... think what happens when you buy a cheap ebike and you experience the same type issue with something failing. I wish that LBSs were more interested in getting riders on ebike but most don't want to deal with them. Most of them don't know anything about ebike and don't want to learn and have to invest. Add to that bike manufacturers actually want to take the LBS out of the equation to get profits even higher, and have been for over a decade now. Designing bikes to be sold rather than ridden, focusing only on short-term profits. All just more reasons to learn how to hang a mid-drive on an existing bicycle and maintain it yourself.

 

[GenXrider]

You're equating a 2007 bicycle with a 2020 ebike? I don't think that's a fair comparison but, ok... think what happens when you buy a cheap ebike and you experience the same type issue with something failing. I wish that LBSs were more interested in getting riders on ebike but most don't want to deal with them. Most of them don't know anything about ebike and don't want to learn and have to invest. Add to that bike manufacturers actually want to take the LBS out of the equation to get profits even higher, and have been for over a decade now. Designing bikes to be sold rather than ridden, focusing only on short-term profits. All just more reasons to learn how to hang a mid-drive on an existing bicycle and maintain it yourself.

No, no comparison was being made at all. I was responding only to the comment about "$1000" and "Chinese bike", which is what I quoted in my reply, since that jumped out at me in regard to my Trek, and I thought I would share my LBS hard-earned warranty service experience. Really, nothing more than that.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Obviously if I am spending $10k on a bike I will do more research on it. But I'm not. It's all relative. Do you research your next phone or just plunk down $800-$1200? Some do, some don't. Same thing with cars (as I mentioned before).

I can posit that some people who will spend $5k or more on an ebike actually are overspending. Just like buying that $2k laptop is nice but when it comes down to it, for the things you do, a $500 laptop works perfectly. At the same time, those bikes at KMart and Walmart serve a purpose. There are many people who can only afford those bikes and they serve them well for what they do with them. I don't think of them as lazy or helpless.

Again, people who really use their ebikes daily and puts thousands of miles on it, maybe a ~$1k ebike isn't for them (although I've seen some posts where people are putting some miles on these value ebikes)... but I wouldn't disparage anyone, especially a new member, who is asking about that particular price range.

LOL! So $800-$1200 is nothing for a phone... but $1K is enough for an ebike. Yes... I did "research" my phone before I bought it. And I would no more buy a $500 laptop than a $1K ebike. If you're sending emails or only wasting time like this... it may be good enough (for a year or two) but I use my PC like to do my ebike, vigorously. I my opinion anyone spending $5K on a production ebike spent too much for what they got. No maybe's... absolutely none. Cheap is and has always been cheap, not just inexpensive. I "disagree" with (not disparage) every single person/"member" that thinks that buying a production ebike is the best way to go. The disagreement ramps up the lower they go in price. I sat a talked with a guy that bought a Stromer back a few years and he was shocked at the difference between his bikes capabilities and mine, night and day. If that guy would have known what I tell people he'd be riding a bike today that cost less and could match me mile for mile. But seriously, if you are looking for people to advise you how to buy a $1K ebikes you should be asking RadRover owners.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

No, no comparison was being made at all. I was responding only to the comment about "$1000" and "Chinese bike", which is what I quoted in my reply, since that jumped out at me in regard to my Trek, and I thought I would share my LBS hard-earned warranty service experience. Really, nothing more than that.

A decade and a half ago. Ahhhhh... the good ol'days and you still got ripped off back then. Stay safe.