[Tip] Yamaha PW - How to check the number of cycles & absolute battery capacity

[bob armani]

I thought I would share this tip because it’s useful when buying a second hand bike. It applies to the frame battery of the PW series drives, but not the PW-X.

By pressing down the button on the battery for a given amount of time, you can obtain information about:

• The number of cycles: this tells you how many times the battery has been fully charged.
• The absolute battery capacity: tells you how much energy storage capacity the battery has lost since it was new. A new battery has an absolute battery capacity of 100%, whereas a battery that has lost 26% of its energy capacity will have an absolute battery capacity of 74%. The absolute battery capacity is expressed in 25% increments.

Determining the number of battery cycles

The leds are assigned numbers in the following order:

4 ---- (F)
3 ---
2 --
1 - (E)

Press the button on your battery for 20 seconds. The following led combinations give you the number of cycles:

Led 1 Blinking: 0 to 100 cycles
Led 1 On: 101 to 200 cycles

Led 1, 2 Blinking: 201 to 300 cycles
Led 1, 2 On: 301 to 400 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3 Blinking: 401 to 500 cycles
Led 1, 2, 3 On: 501 to 600 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3, 4 Blinking: 601 to 700 cycles
Let 1, 2, 3, 4 On: 701 or more cycles

Note: A new battery should only have led 1 blinking.


Determining the absolute battery capacity

The leds are ordered in the same manner as for the previous test.

Press the button on your battery for 30 seconds. The following led combinations give you the absolute capacity:

Led 1 on: 0 to 24 % capacity
Led 1, 2 on: 25% to 49% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3 on: 50 to 74% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on: 75 to 100% capacity

Note: A new battery should have all 4 leds turned on.

Would be interesting to know what the procedure would be for the PW-X systems?!?

 

[bob armani]

I thought I would share this tip because it’s useful when buying a second hand bike. It applies to the frame battery of the PW series drives.

By pressing down the button on the battery for a given amount of time, you can obtain information about:

• The number of cycles: this tells you how many times the battery has been fully charged.
• The absolute battery capacity: tells you how much energy storage capacity the battery has lost since it was new. A new battery has an absolute battery capacity of 100%, whereas a battery that has lost 26% of its energy capacity will have an absolute battery capacity of 74%. The absolute battery capacity is expressed in 25% increments.

Determining the number of battery cycles

The leds are assigned numbers in the following order:

4 ---- (F)
3 ---
2 --
1 - (E)

Press the button on your battery for 20 seconds. The following led combinations give you the number of cycles:

Led 1 Blinking: 0 to 100 cycles
Led 1 On: 101 to 200 cycles

Led 1, 2 Blinking: 201 to 300 cycles
Led 1, 2 On: 301 to 400 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3 Blinking: 401 to 500 cycles
Led 1, 2, 3 On: 501 to 600 cycles

Led 1, 2, 3, 4 Blinking: 601 to 700 cycles
Let 1, 2, 3, 4 On: 701 or more cycles

Note: A new battery should only have led 1 blinking.


Determining the absolute battery capacity

The leds are ordered in the same manner as for the previous test.

Press the button on your battery for 30 seconds. The following led combinations give you the absolute capacity:

Led 1 on: 0 to 24 % capacity
Led 1, 2 on: 25% to 49% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3 on: 50 to 74% capacity
Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on: 75 to 100% capacity

Note: A new battery should have all 4 leds turned on.

FYI-Tried this with approx 1800 miles on my battery.
Received the following status: 0-100 cycles and all 4 LEDs lit. Most of the time I charge between 20-80% and I do not run the battery below 20%. I also ensure it is charged to 50% during non-biking season. Great tool here. Thanks for the great tip!

 

[bob armani]

These batteries last. I now have an estimated 900 cycles on my main battery. It is 3 years old. Absolute battery capacity is still between 75 and 100. I have often charged it to 100% twice during the day. I've pampered my second battery a lot more, but there isn't yet a dramatic difference in performance between them. I'd say that I get 10-15% extra range with the 2nd battery which I've been "kind" to. I rarely charge that one over 80%.
To be honest, I'm more worried about the drive than the batteries. I'm at 28,270 kilometers with the PW-45 drive...

Whoa that is a lot of riding. Great work outs I'm sure. I also did not take good care of my first set of batteries on my other E-bike. I certainly did pay the price seeing battery degradation with approx 20-25% less range. I am going to try and keep up the same routine with my newest one. I do however, occasionally charge to 100% if I know it will be on an extended ride that day. Not too often though.

 

[Bicyclista]

After 4 years and 10,000 miles on my 2016 Haibike AllMtn Plus:

• between 401 and 500 cycles (LED's 1, 2, and 3 blinking).
• absolute battery capacity between 50% and 75% (all four LED's on). Of course, it might be that after the first year it was 95%, after the second 90%, the third 85%, and now 75%, but the readout does not give me that level of detail.
• When the battery is 100% charged, the voltage measured 40.8 volts, the same as last year. For reference, my understanding is that a new 36V (nominal) battery should read 42 volts when fully charged.
• My range in mixed terrain has remained about the same at 35 miles using the HIGH level of assist. When the bike was new it was 40 miles. This is all over the same route, a 21-mile roundtrip.

I try to keep the battery charged between 20% and 80% by using a timer. Occasionally, I charge the battery to 100% (as I did today in order to measure the voltage at full charge). I understand that occasionally charging to full rebalances the cells, but there is no way to tell whether the cells are unbalanced. Memo to manufacturers: We need more information and more detail!

 

[bob armani]

After 4 years and 10,000 miles on my 2016 Haibike AllMtn Plus:

• between 401 and 500 cycles (LED's 1, 2, and 3 blinking).
• absolute battery capacity between 50% and 75% (all four LED's on). Of course, it might be that after the first year it was 95%, after the second 90%, the third 85%, and now 75%, but the readout does not give me that level of detail.
• When the battery is 100% charged, the voltage measured 40.8 volts, the same as last year. For reference, my understanding is that a new 36V (nominal) battery should read 42 volts when fully charged.
• My range in mixed terrain has remained about the same at 35 miles using the HIGH level of assist. When the bike was new it was 40 miles. This is all over the same route, a 21-mile roundtrip.

I try to keep the battery charged between 20% and 80% by using a timer. Occasionally, I charge the battery to 100% (as I did today in order to measure the voltage at full charge). I understand that occasionally charging to full rebalances the cells, but there is no way to tell whether the cells are unbalanced. Memo to manufacturers: We need more information and more detail!

From my understanding the "advanced" batteries have a much more sophisticated BMS than the cheap Chinese made ones. That said, there may be no need to to rebalance cells on these.

 

[CHiSox]

From my understanding the "advanced" batteries have a much more sophisticated BMS than the cheap Chinese made ones. That said, there may be no need to to rebalance cells on these.

These Yamaha Batteries are labeled "Made in China"

 

[Brooks]

These Yamaha Batteries are labeled "Made in China"

Where does it say "Made In China"?

 

[CHiSox]

Yours does say processed in China as well

 

[Brooks]

Interesting. I have a 2017 battery. Yours looks like a newer 'in-tube' battery.

 

[FlatSix911]

Where does it say "Made In China"?
View attachment 61137

I think it is pretty clear that the battery cells are produced in Japan, while the pack is assembled in China.

 

[DTFkuhneye]

I did roughly 23 000 miles (37 000 km) on my 400Wh battery and it says 4 lights on, pause 4 lights on. So over (?)701+ charges and still over 75% capacity.

Thing is I struggled to get 35 miles out of it in mixed conditions in the end.

I found a brand new 500Wh genuine Yamaha battery on sale during coronavirus lockdown and hoped it would enable me to get 60+- miles per charge.

My results: 60 to 70 miles range most days & 85ish miles with 2 left in the tank one night.

So as far as I'm concerned Yamaha battery talks bollocks or possibly I've got a tiny dodgy bit of circuitry in the original 400Wh battery.

There is no way it has over 75%. That would mean at least 300Wh usable battery.

My new 500Wh is giving me an average of just under 70 miles per charge which would mean that the reality is only 250Wh left roughly.

Don't get me wrong the original served me well. But it's clearly misleading (or possibly faulty?)

Afterthought:

On my original battery I was using Eco mostly and some STD for tough parts and heavy loads and strong wind etc. (+ A little bit of ECO+ and rarely High)

On my new battery I've got a bit lazy and use mostly STD and a little ECO. This would suggest my original battery is talking complete rubbish and probably only has +-200Wh in reality! Yamaha I'm taking your little company to court for big time battery bollocks lol.

 

[FlatSix911]

I did roughly 23 000 miles (37 000 km) on my 400Wh battery and it says 4 lights on, pause 4 lights on. So over (?)701+ charges and still over 75% capacity.
Thing is I struggled to get 35 miles out of it in mixed conditions in the end. I found a brand new 500Wh genuine Yamaha battery on sale during coronavirus lockdown and hoped it would enable me to get 60+- miles per charge.
My results: 60 to 70 miles range most days & 85ish miles with 2 left in the tank one night. So as far as I'm concerned Yamaha battery talks bollocks or possibly I've got a tiny dodgy bit of circuitry in the original 400Wh battery.
There is no way it has over 75%. That would mean at least 300Wh usable battery. My new 500Wh is giving me an average of just under 70 miles per charge which would mean that the reality is only 250Wh left roughly.
Don't get me wrong the original served me well. But it's clearly misleading (or possibly faulty?)
Afterthought: On my original battery I was using Eco mostly and some STD for tough parts and heavy loads and strong wind etc. (+ A little bit of ECO+ and rarely High)
On my new battery I've got a bit lazy and use mostly STD and a little ECO. This would suggest my original battery is talking complete rubbish and probably only has +-200Wh in reality! Yamaha I'm taking your little company to court for big time battery bollocks lol.

How did you maintain your batteries... did you charge from 20-80%?

 

[DTFkuhneye]

How did you maintain your batteries... did you charge from 20-80%?

I work on my bicycle as a courier so I just plugged it in after work & used a neoprene cover & kept my bicycle indoors when not in use (except +- 6 months where I had to store outdoors with a cover on. Battery taken indoors though).

I've gone more in-depth about all this if you dig back through this thread for my previous replies.

 

[TPEHAK]

• absolute battery capacity between 50% and 75% (all four LED's on).

All four LED's on means the battery capacity is between 75% and 100%

Here is my statistics:
Electric bicycle is 2018 Haibike XDURO AllMtn 6.0, 3 years old, Yamaha PW-X motor, 500Wh battery, 4500 miles, I use it mostly for commute, I ride it all year round mostly in the rain wet or snow weather (in the dry weather I commute on motorcycle) and here in Seattle most of the days are rainy days, I ride it in pretty hilly landscape with a lot of climbing and descents, I ride 99% of time in the maximum assist level (EXPW mode), the motor assist speed limit is derestricted with SpeedBox dongle, I always charge the battery to 100% and the bicycle was newer laid down with no use for more than 1 month (I commute on it at least 2-5 times per week average, maybe sometimes 1 time per 2 weeks in the summer since the summer here is dryer and I use motorcycle instead of the bicycle), I never wash my bicycle so it is very dirty and dirt sticks out of every gap, I only change chain and sprockets when those are worn and start skipping, I always remove the battery from the bicycle and keep the battery in my living room, I start charging the battery after 30-60 minutes after ride after bringing it to the room (to let it equalize the temperature after ride).

So my battery has 301-400 cycles (Led 1, 2 On) and 75%-100% battery capacity (Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on). I feel no difference with battery performance from day 1 when I started using my bicycle new (1 day commute back and forth takes about 90-85% of battery charge and it is still the same as day 1).

 

[FlatSix911]

All four LED's on means the battery capacity is between 75% and 100%
Here is my statistics:
Electric bicycle is 2018 Haibike XDURO AllMtn 6.0, 3 years old, Yamaha PW-X motor, 500Wh battery, 4500 miles, I use it mostly for commute, I ride it all year round mostly in the rain wet or snow weather (in the dry weather I commute on motorcycle) and here in Seattle most of the days are rainy days, I ride it in pretty hilly landscape with a lot of climbing and descents, I ride 99% of time in the maximum assist level (EXPW mode), the motor assist speed limit is derestricted with SpeedBox dongle, I always charge the battery to 100% and the bicycle was newer laid down with no use for more than 1 month (I commute on it at least 2-5 times per week average, maybe sometimes 1 time per 2 weeks in the summer since the summer here is dryer and I use motorcycle instead of the bicycle), I never wash my bicycle so it is very dirty and dirt sticks out of every gap, I only change chain and sprockets when those are worn and start skipping, I always remove the battery from the bicycle and keep the battery in my living room, I start charging the battery after 30-60 minutes after ride after bringing it to the room (to let it equalize the temperature after ride).
So my battery has 301-400 cycles (Led 1, 2 On) and 75%-100% battery capacity (Led 1, 2, 3, 4 on). I feel no difference with battery performance from day 1 when I started using my bicycle new (1 day commute back and forth takes about 90-85% of battery charge and it is still the same as day 1).

Thanks for sharing your long term commuter use case... it confirms the quality and durability of the Yamaha drive system.

 

[TPEHAK]

Today my Yamaha PW-X display unit started showing 11:00 each time I turn it ON. According the user manual the display battery power is low and the display battery should be replaced. So the display battery lasted 3.5 years.

 

[FlatSix911]

Today my Yamaha PW-X display unit started showing 11:00 each time I turn it ON.
According the user manual the display battery power is low and the display battery should be replaced. So the display battery lasted 3.5 years.

Impressive battery life for a CR2302.

 

[Bicyclista]

Today my Yamaha PW-X display unit started showing 11:00 each time I turn it ON. According the user manual the display battery power is low and the display battery should be replaced. So the display battery lasted 3.5 years.

Good to know what the "11:00" means! My Yamaha PW-X display is still good after 4 ½ years, but I will be on the lookout for the "11:00" signal!

 

[Bicyclista]

After five years and 13,500 miles on my Haibike AllMtn Plus:

• More than 701 cycles (all four LED's blinking)
• 75-100% battery capacity (all four LED's on)

I recently bought a second battery. It was not cheap! But the new one has 500Wh vs the 400Wh of the original battery. Yesterday I went on a 46-mile ride, which would not have been possible with the original battery. Fortunately, I can easily carry a second battery on my rear rack.

 

[Ghostman_132]

Four years and 15,500km. Battery with cycles 601-700 (all blinks) and abs. capacity 100-75%. Still going strong.