Throttles and California

Exactly. Those stats are probably for collisions with cars and trucks, but the trend with impact speed and the implications for heavy ebikes on MUPs are pretty clear.

Safety is everyone's responsibility. Oblivious pedestrians and their dogs and kids WILL do stupid things right in front of you without warning. Ditto for casual cyclists, skaters, etc. And on hearing a call-out or bell behind them, a significant percentage will first move toward the center of the MUP, not the side.

That's just reality. Best to approach and pass theses hazards with caution at low speed (well below 10 mph) while making your presence known as best you can well in advance.

If you can't bring yourself to do that one simple thing, you have no business riding on MUPs on ANY kind of bike.
 
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If you can't bring yourself to do that one simple thing, you have no business riding on MUPs on ANY kind of bike.
^^^ this. Exactly. People who think you should limit the speed of a bike at or below 20 mph totally miss the point: the upper speed limit of the bike is not the problem any more than it is on an automobile that can travel at 120 mph easily and stably (on a modern American interstate, at least). Its the driver who doesn't drive 120 on the interstate, and its the rider who doesn't go 20 on a bike path.

I tend to do less than 10 mph when passing pedestrians both as a matter of safety and general courtesy so they don't have someone whiz by them.

There is NO ebike or even analog bicycle that is slow enough to be safe for MUP's. The rider is the one who creates safety or the lack thereof. Just like in a car. Legislate the rider's behavior (oh wait we already have all those laws, just no will to enforce them).
 
I can't imagine anyone here is so inexperienced as to have never seen a regular bicycle rider whiz past pedestrians on a path (something so common as to be considered routine). Yet we don't hear anyone arguing for limiting bicycle drivetrain size for safety.

So lets make bicycles safe for pedestrians, since we are pretending to be concerned about safety as a general concept, rather than only targetting ebike transportation and ignoring the rest.

A 42T front chainring and a minimum 28T rear cog on a 700C wheel would yield a cadence of 78 at 15 mph. A cadence of 52 yields 10 mph. Lets call that a Class 1 bicycle. Since there is no throttle, we'll skip Class 2 and go straight to a 'speed pedaler' Class 3. You can be allowed a 24T rear cog which will give you a cadence of 89 at 20 mph. Thats plenty.

I'm sure there will be plenty of takers to limiting bicycle top speed mechanically since safety is the real issue people are concerned about.
 
I'd qualify that because it isn't exactly that simple.

The hypothetical roadie who can hit 20+ mph on their bike on an MUP is riding a bike that has probably a third the weight, a rider who also weighs substantially less, and on the average is riding a bike with better brakes than the typical e-bike and e-bike rider.

That totally leaves out that a fit and experienced roadie probably has better reflexes and more experience and often better judgement than the average e-bike rider.

I'm not saying that speed limits on MUPs, and in particular on congested MUPs, aren't reasonable and aren't part of the solution, but that there isn't a one to one equivalence between a fast acoustic bike and any random e-bike.
 
Maybe a bicycle or ebike's speed should be limited to some maximum kinetic energy that has been deemed safe.
Enforcement would be most entertaining, with both the cyclist and bike on the scale.;)
 
Found myself waiting in a long line with a Carlsbad, CA city cop this morning, so I took the opportunity to ask him about their current ebike enforcement efforts. Said nothing about Surrons, but he immediately assumed that I was asking about that kind of bike.

Said they enforce against these illegal bikes every chance they get. If the law allows, they confiscate on the spot. Happens pretty often around here. Yay!

He didn't know what happens to the bikes after that, but officers spend a lot of time talking down angry/astonished parents of offending kids — some as young as 10!!

We both rolled our eyes. What on Earth were these parents thinking?? Neither of us had a clue.
 
I can't imagine anyone here is so inexperienced as to have never seen a regular bicycle rider whiz past pedestrians on a path (something so common as to be considered routine). Yet we don't hear anyone arguing for limiting bicycle drivetrain size for safety.

So lets make bicycles safe for pedestrians, since we are pretending to be concerned about safety as a general concept, rather than only targetting ebike transportation and ignoring the rest.

A 42T front chainring and a minimum 28T rear cog on a 700C wheel would yield a cadence of 78 at 15 mph. A cadence of 52 yields 10 mph. Lets call that a Class 1 bicycle. Since there is no throttle, we'll skip Class 2 and go straight to a 'speed pedaler' Class 3. You can be allowed a 24T rear cog which will give you a cadence of 89 at 20 mph. Thats plenty.

I'm sure there will be plenty of takers to limiting bicycle top speed mechanically since safety is the real issue people are concerned about.

As Mr Coffee already said, roadies riding too fast on MUPs is an issue but not as much as you'd think. It just takes a lot of experience and fitness to ride anything resembling ebike speeds over distance, and by the time you get there riders are generally knowledgeable enough to not be too problematic. Thought thats obviously not universal. I know the managing agency of the MUP near me has been known to contact local bike shops and politely ask them not to do shop rides that incorporate the MUP into their routes to try and avoid issues.

Its an issue but its an unchanging one. Human physiology is the limit there, and has been for the decades that all that bike infra has existed. I know people who work for WABA and complaints about roadies going too fast has been a minor but consistent complaint for as long as I've been cycling, so 22 years.

The issue with non-compliant ebikes (and honestly even legal ones) is that now we are getting people with basically zero experience buying bikes that easily exceed even the fastest roadies.

Found myself waiting in a long line with a Carlsbad, CA city cop this morning, so I took the opportunity to ask him about their current ebike enforcement efforts. Said nothing about Surrons, but he immediately assumed that I was asking about that kind of bike.

Said they enforce against these illegal bikes every chance they get. If the law allows, they confiscate on the spot. Happens pretty often around here. Yay!

He didn't know what happens to the bikes after that, but officers spend a lot of time talking down angry/astonished parents of offending kids — some as young as 10!!

We both rolled our eyes. What on Earth were these parents thinking?? Neither of us had a clue.

Wealthy area, I'm sure lots of parents used to buying kids what they ask for. Loops back to the deceptive marketing companies selling those sorts of bikes have been trying, where they pretend they are ebikes while also wink-winking at how fast they can go once you enable "off road mode". Kids ask for them, sell the parents on "they are ebikes! Totally legal!".

I hope manufacturer and sellers of those bikes get sued, personally.
 
As Mr Coffee already said, roadies riding too fast on MUPs is an issue but not as much as you'd think.
I know people who work for WABA and complaints about roadies going too fast has been a minor but consistent complaint for as long as I've been cycling, so 22 years.

Ah, but go back 50 years or so, and it's a different story.

During the era of bike messengers in NYC in the early '80s, professional cyclists going too fast was a HUGE issue in The Big Apple, a lot of complaints, and a lot of press... but like this controversy, the number of injuries (per capita, compared to automobile madness) was less huge. A few terrible, high-profile accidents.

What I remember was, there were guys who could do it-- who could scream up to a red light at 30+ MPH, on or off the sidewalk, and come to a dead stop, balancing perfectly, often clipped in, and wait virtually motionless in the middle of a pack of pedestrians, launching again without touching a soul...

And then there were the posers-- guys who were quick and loud with the whistle, but cut people off, knocked people over, etc.

I got good on my old Raleigh-- way better than the posers-- and I could carve my way through pretty dense pedestrian traffic without hitting anyone, but I was not in the same league as the pro messengers. Not as fast, not as much stamina, reflexes and balance not quite as good.

I wound up on the trunk of a taxi cab once. He did stop short, but I didn't understand about defensive riding.

The issue with non-compliant ebikes (and honestly even legal ones) is that now we are getting people with basically zero experience buying bikes that easily exceed even the fastest roadies.
True that. But many may learn, and learn pretty quick over the next few years-- if they can stay off their phones. A LOT more people are getting into eBikes, at least here in LA and in NYC, and at least they have a chance to get some skills on the public rental eBikes, have some sense of how it works.
Wealthy area, I'm sure lots of parents used to buying kids what they ask for. Loops back to the deceptive marketing companies selling those sorts of bikes have been trying, where they pretend they are ebikes while also wink-winking at how fast they can go once you enable "off road mode". Kids ask for them, sell the parents on "they are ebikes! Totally legal!".

I hope manufacturer and sellers of those bikes get sued, personally.
Me, too. We've got one family of illegal eBike riders down the block... but, those guys are now pro motocross riders who compete nationally. They ride at night, and they might be raising hell somewhere else, but they do slow down to near walking speed around the neighborhood to pass me and the dogs.

They used to ride motorcycles when they were 12 years old, which just drove everyone crazy. I was one of the few people who confronted both the kids and the parents, and it was a little tense, but at least we got them off the motorcycles, which I'm sure could do 100 MPH and were crazy loud.

I know them, we have an uneasy alliance. Caught them once throwing huge rocks into our pool, parents got together and disciplined them for it-- which included getting the rocks out of our pool. We had a good dialogue-- it's probably why they slow down now.

I think they did start smoking weed, though, which worries me if they are riding (at night, possibly underage, likely without a license, on overpowered bikes, etc.) Someone from their crew said to me once, "That is so cool your cat walks on a leash!"

And I was like, "Dude, this is a terrier." (Who looks, acts, and walks nothing like a cat.)

We had a laugh about it, but I hope they ride sober! I think that mostly, they're doing their fast riding in events on gas-burners, not around here.
 
I watched a lot of those anti social hipster biker videos, storming through new york at breakneck speed and getting a mob rush as they just piled across red lights on pedal bikes.
I always imagined them bumping into a Hells Angel gang.
 
I'd qualify that because it isn't exactly that simple.
Honestly, I think it is. I weigh 235 lbs now. I used to be 265. If I hit you on my (long-suffering) sub-20-lb road bike at the 20+ mph I am capable of traveling at, I assure you its going to hurt a lot, and perhaps grievously injure you, assuming I don't kill you outright. If I was at my fighting weight of about 135 when I was in my prime, I would be going faster, and when I hit you you'd still be in deep doo-doo. I don't consider arguments about cyclist reflexes and ability as valid. We have fat, lazy and stupid auto drivers too but we don't discriminate on that basis. So using those criteria on bike riders is similarly off base.

I think there is a level of prejudice on this subject that is not admitted to, perhaps even to oneself. I think the reason for it goes back to bicycle riders who still harbor resentment for the 'e' in ebike, can't let go of it and these sorts of arguments are that school of thought trying to limit the spread and acceptance of said ebikes. We have to wait for this kind of mindset to literally die off. I often compare it to what happened when derailleurs were introduced ... and reviled for a few decades as cheating; only used by the weak or sloth. Its a ridiculous position to take now, but thats now.

Feel free to disagree vocally. We'll know who was right after we're all dead.
 
What is highly ironic is that my URL might be repurposed to sell Surron's and Talarias. I have had it for four-years and it has about 200 five star reviews and search engines always place it in the area's top three. Siri could not find the downtown bike store this week. It could find mine at #2. Stars would stay but all the content and the physical location would change. The eBike shop where I work needs a second portal for off-road eMotos for a new shop we are opening for storage and service across the plaza. For now we are calling it the speakeasy. If you are a bartender on the Beach in Barbados and personally prefer single malt, you do not turn down people who want an umbrella drink. That is the nature of business. Service on these electric motorcycles is booming and we do not want to mix them with bicycles. That is a bad visual as a Specialized dealer. One that was in a couple of days ago does 90 mph. The first photo is of the type of eBike I prefer. You can see the wire from the juice container to the mid-drive.
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The first photo is of the type of eBike I prefer.
Another beauty from you! Are you still making custom ebikes in your spare time?

Thought of you when I found this classy 7-speed Kent Bayside gathering dust in a neighbor's garage:
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It was given to her by another neighbor who was moving away. She's never ridden it — largely because it's heavy, and she's pushing 80 now. But in her younger days as a teacher, she commuted ~25 mi/day between Oceanside and Carlsbad.

I tuned it up for her and gave it a spin. Works great, quality looks decent, and it's in immaculate condition! Thought maybe she'd ride it after the @PedalUma treatment, but she's not ready to consider an ebike.
 
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I hope manufacturer and sellers of those bikes get sued, personally.
Already happening against Super73:

May all of these scofflaw manufactures get sued into oblivion. And may all of their e-motorcycles sold as ebikes get confiscated. But not before hoards of them descend on their homes and tear their landscaping to shreds.
 
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