Throttle vs Pedal Assist

[Rainman6412]

I apologize if I’m posting this in the wrong place. I just purchased an ECOTRIC 20” Folding Fatbike for my wife and should have done more research. I detest not be able to turn off pedal assist and use throttle only. It’s can become very dangerous if you are in a tight turn and happen to slightly move the pedal. Trust me i was just there. Can anyone tell me how I can turn off pedal assist with the current 810 LED short of rewiring the system and replacing the controller with LCD/controller? If this is the only way that will work, I will do it. Maybe someone has been down this road before and can assist me. My other option is to take a big loss on the bike.
I might add I have a Cyrusher XY660 and it works the way I want hers to. Thank you!

Doug

 

[harryS]

In a tight turn, you should be using the brakes, which will inhibit the motor. I rode a bike equipped with an 810LED back in 2015 and by habit, developed the riding tricks needed for low speed maneuvers, including powering the 810 LED off and pedaling up to speed before turning it on. I still ride that bike a lot today and I have no safety issues with it. Picking up the Ecotric, I just did the same.

Theese are inexpensive $776 ebikes. All the three level PAS systems work like this.

In your other post, I suggest unplugging the pedal sensor, which is simple, and shuts off PAS while you keep throttle. PAS is useful though. Worth keeping. You could always find a thumbswitch for the handlebars to do it at will.

 

[Rainman6412]

In a tight turn, you should be using the brakes, which will inhibit the motor. I rode a bike equipped with an 810LED back in 2015 and by habit, developed the riding tricks needed for low speed maneuvers, including powering the 810 LED off and pedaling up to speed before turning it on. I still ride that bike a lot today and I have no safety issues with it. Picking up the Ecotric, I just did the same.

Theese are inexpensive $776 ebikes. All the three level PAS systems work like this.

In your other post, I suggest unplugging the pedal sensor, which is simple, and shuts off PAS while you keep throttle. PAS is useful though. Worth keeping. You could always find a thumbswitch for the handlebars to do it at will.

Thank you for your reply. I purchased this bike for my wife and I want her to have a good first experience. I disconnected the PA, as you suggested, and now she only has throttle and pedal. I’ll reintroduce the PA as she becomes more familiar with the bike. I’m also going to attempt to change out the controller (See below)with added features.

VGEBY Motor Brushless Controller
Waterproof LCD Display Panel and Ebike Scooter Brushless Motor Speed Controller Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G84YGJN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_lLvVEbS706WNA

 

[harryS]

I have a version of that controller.I bought it originally in 2017, but found I wanted a more powerful one, so it's been sitting around. Last year I tried it on the Ecotric with only a throttle connected. It's less powerful than the original, 13A vs 17A, so it will accelerate slower but still get the bike up to around 18-20 mph.

That seller has no instructions for the LCD, and no wiring for controller, and doesn't care. You'll have to look around to figure out how the throttle and controller are wired. It's not hard. On the motor connections, colors should match. The controller has a learning circuit so in theory even if you got the motor wires wrong, it self learns. Hopefully, you got the 36-48V version.

 

[Rainman6412]

I have a version of that controller.I bought it originally in 2017, but found I wanted a more powerful one, so it's been sitting around. Last year I tried it on the Ecotric with only a throttle connected. It's less powerful than the original, 13A vs 17A, so it will accelerate slower but still get the bike up to around 18-20 mph.

That seller has no instructions for the LCD, and no wiring for controller, and doesn't care. You'll have to look around to figure out how the throttle and controller are wired. It's not hard. On the motor connections, colors should match. The controller has a learning circuit so in theory even if you got the motor wires wrong, it self learns. Hopefully, you got the 36-48V version.

Got the controller all wired up. I had to rearrange the wires on the controller for the throttle and PAS, as they did not line up with the bike. I purchased and installed a 6 pin jst connector for the motor wire, making sure all colors lined up. After all was connected I pressed the on button on the display and it powered up. I was able to cycle through P01 -18. When I tried the throttle and pedal assist, I get nothing. I connected the two green wires, coming out of the controller together, and the motor starts to turn. There may be something in the programming on the display that is causing these functions not to work. Maybe P09 or P10? Any ideas?

 

[Rainman6412]

I have a version of that controller.I bought it originally in 2017, but found I wanted a more powerful one, so it's been sitting around. Last year I tried it on the Ecotric with only a throttle connected. It's less powerful than the original, 13A vs 17A, so it will accelerate slower but still get the bike up to around 18-20 mph.

That seller has no instructions for the LCD, and no wiring for controller, and doesn't care. You'll have to look around to figure out how the throttle and controller are wired. It's not hard. On the motor connections, colors should match. The controller has a learning circuit so in theory even if you got the motor wires wrong, it self learns. Hopefully, you got the 36-48V version.

Got the controller all wired up. I had to rearrange the wires on the controller for the throttle and PAS, as they did not line up with the bike. I purchased and installed a 6 pin jst connector for the motor wire, making sure all coolers lined up. After all was connected I pressed the on button on the display and it powered up. I was able to cycle through PO1 -18. When I tried the throttle and pedal assist, I get nothing. I connected the two green wires, coming out of the controller together, and the motor starts to turn. There may be something in the programming on the display that is causing these functions not to work. Maybe P09 or P10? I found all the required jst connectors here.

Amazon.com: ACTOO JST SM 5 Pin Connector LED Power Male to Female SM Wire Cable Adapter for 3528 5050 LED Light Strip 10 Pair : Tools & Home Improvement

Buy ACTOO JST SM 5 Pin Connector LED Power Male to Female SM Wire Cable Adapter for 3528 5050 LED Light Strip 10 Pair: Tools & Home Improvement - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[harryS]

Here's my experience.
-Connect the the learning wires together.
-Power up controller. Motor will turn briefly.
-Disconnect learning wires.
-Power down

The next time I powered up, my motor worked. Controller has "remembered" that wiring ever since, as I do use the controller to test motors, and I always use the standard wiring,

 

[Rainman6412]

Here's my experience.
-Connect the the learning wires together.
-Power up controller. Motor will turn briefly.
-Disconnect learning wires.
-Power down

The next time I powered up, my motor worked. Controller has "remembered" that wiring ever since, as I do use the controller to test motors, and I always use the standard wiring,

Harry I hope I’m not bothering you with all my stupid question. I really appreciate folks like you on the forum. I work on multi million dollar helicopter flight simulators and can’t get a $600 electric bike to do what I want it to.
When I tried what you suggested of plugging in the green wire in, then powering up, the motor continues to run until I unplug the green wire. Is there anyway, with a meter, can I tell if I’m getting the proper signal from the throttle? Is there anyway to replicate that signal to the controller. I’m getting 5 V from the controller to the throttle.
I might add, I love doing this stuff!

 

[harryS]

FYI. The display will power up without a working controller. All it needs is battery and ground. You can fiddle with the P settings with only those two connections. Properly connected, when it powers up, it returns the battery voltage to the controller which turns the controller on.

If you had the Ecotric 20", the wires from the throttle were white, black, red. Red and black are power. The wires from the PAS sensor were red, green, and black. Again, red and black are power. If you match these to the Brainpower box, it should work.

For your new controller, identify/confirm power and ground on each three wire connector with a voltmeter. The third wire will be signal. If you measure it, power-to-ground should come in 1/2 volt lower than signal-to-ground. For example, red-black is 4.5 volts on the Ecotric, but white-black will be 5.0 volts. I believe they have the latter on a 5 volt pull up resistor so you see 5 volts. Meanwhile, the power has a current limit circuit that drops it 1/2 volt.
.
If the display has a walk mode, I often use that when I haven't got a throttle with the connector properly wired. Walk mode often kicks in when one of the arrow buttons is held down. The 810LED has a separate button for walk mode.

Another way to test the throttle input is to put a diode between power and input. You will get full throttle because this pulls the input to 4.3 volts. By the way, the same thing happens if the ground wire on your throttle ever gets broken. This is an unfortunate bug and your motor will go full throttle. I've had it happen twice on my ebikes when a connector got loose. So back in the lab, I put a diode there and it simulated the same thing.

 

[Rainman6412]

FYI. The display will power up without a working controller. All it needs is battery and ground. You can fiddle with the P settings with only those two connections. Properly connected, when it powers up, it returns the battery voltage to the controller which turns the controller on.

If you had the Ecotric 20", the wires from the throttle were white, black, red. Red and black are power. The wires from the PAS sensor were red, green, and black. Again, red and black are power. If you match these to the Brainpower box, it should work.

For your new controller, identify/confirm power and ground on each three wire connector with a voltmeter. The third wire will be signal. If you measure it, power-to-ground should come in 1/2 volt lower than signal-to-ground. For example, red-black is 4.5 volts on the Ecotric, but white-black will be 5.0 volts. I believe they have the latter on a 5 volt pull up resistor so you see 5 volts. Meanwhile, the power has a current limit circuit that drops it 1/2 volt.
.
If the display has a walk mode, I often use that when I haven't got a throttle with the connector properly wired. Walk mode often kicks in when one of the arrow buttons is held down. The 810LED has a separate button for walk mode.

Another way to test the throttle input is to put a diode between power and input. You will get full throttle because this pulls the input to 4.3 volts. By the way, the same thing happens if the ground wire on your throttle ever gets broken. This is an unfortunate bug and your motor will go full throttle. I've had it happen twice on my ebikes when a connector got loose. So back in the lab, I put a diode there and it simulated the same thing.

Waiting on USPS to deliver my 3 pin connectors, then I’ll have all the connectors coming out of the controller matching the bike. I don’t want to loose the ability to go back to original. Then I’ll go from there. Thanks for all your help.
By the way, I ordered the controller you suggested. Should get it mid July.