Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

[Stefan Mikes]

Never heard of MTBers to form any community Could be wrong though.

 

[mschwett]

…analog cyclists can't stand the presence or mere sight of the 'hello fun' group of easy riders, regardless of whether they have electric assist or not.

pretty broad generalization there! i don’t think it’s as bad/polarized as you suggest. around here, a LOT of people cycle, and there is a highly varied mix of eBikes and acoustic bikes. other than two snide but harmless comments over the last couple years, the reaction to my various eBikes has been nothing but positive. lots of “does it have a motor,” “how do you like that bike?” “want to motor pace me” and so on. the worst, on a long climb, was “you’re too young for an eBike,” which led to an interesting conversation. one guy out of approximately 100,000 said “man, turn that whining thing off.”

online, of course, the bad apple voices tend to be magnified and depending on where you hang out you’ll read a lot of it. not representative of the cycling community at large.

 

[mschwett]

Never heard of MTBers to form any community Could be wrong though.

MTB bros are amount the most close knit around here! they have to be to get trails built and maintained and of course they all have to drive to the trailheads, leading to more tightly knit groups forming up.

 

[J.R.]

I have never gotten the cold shoulder from 'cyclists'. I've heard the occasional comment from casual riders. They seem more bothered that I'm having fun, but casual riders wouldn't consider spending the kind of money we do on ebiking. They don't know what they're missing. Road bikers tend to understand the investment.

I've had committed gravel riding athletes draft me on double tracks. Always a kind greeting and a wave. One warmish winter day I was riding the local gravel rail trail all alone. I was going at a good clip, maybe 17-20 mph. I could see this big guy on a drop bar gravel bike really working hard and he was catching up to me. I was amazed by his consistant speed. He did catch up, a really big German dude, with a kind greeting and a question: 'is that an ebike?' He couldn't believe someone was riding nearly as fast as him. We had a good laugh and rode together for a few miles until he had to go.... left me in the dust. Road bikers always talk to me, they have all sorts of questions about ebikes. Many think a class 1 would make a good training bike. Most see that more people on two wheels brings more awareness and safety.

Maybe it's just the fact I can talk 'bike talk' from many years of biking that fosters good encounters with cyclists. Maybe it's where I ride. I don't know, but I'm glad I don't have the negative experiences some do.

 

[Treesham]

Not "all". Many times the US supreme court has ruled that hate speech isn't protected speech. It fails the metric common to most things people complain "But my rights" where you do not actually have the right to harm or even endanger others.

You see it with 'muricans all the time pissing and moaning about "rights" they can't even explain. See how those waving the flag highest, standing tallest for the tone-deaf anthem, and reciting the ritualistic indoctrinational socialist pledge the loudest are always first in line to trample on every liberty, right, and decency those symbols are supposed to represent. Enshrining four words from the 2nd amendment as if they were a commandment whilst wiping their arse with Article IV and the 1st.

It's why when Americans start running their mouths about their first amendment rights they're almost always wrong. Not only on the international stage where 80%+ of the world has zero damned clue what you're talking about, but also domestically where that right prevents the government from taking action. Has not a single blasted thing to do with what individuals can say or refuse to hear or allow on their property.

Thus if a site owner doesn't like how some people are talking, they are well within their right to kick your ass, my ass, or anybody else's ass out. "Freedom of speech" must also mean freedom from having it shoved down your throat. Same as freedom of -- and from -- the nonsensical fairy tales that are religion and faith. Just because you have the right to go make your own forums, and say whatever the hell you want on it, does not prevent the owners of this site from controlling what's on THEIR platform.

And that really sums up where most people cock-up yelling about their "freedumbs", They seem to think it applies to themselves and their rights, but never once considers the rights of others in their thought processes.

While I agree wholeheartedly with you that not all speech is free, and that there is no free speech on messages boards you sign up for, and that most people who scream Freedom of Speech have no idea what it implies in relation to the U.S. Constitution, the fact of the matter is the courts have ruled MANY times that hate speech is, indeed, free speech. Violent speech may not be, but hate speech? sure is.

The difference is often "fighting" words, not "hateful" words. You can fly that Swastika all day long, you can shout out all sorts of hateful language, but they've got to meet specific requirements to no longer have First Amendment protection.

Village of Skokie v. National Socialist Party of America in the late 1970s was one of the premier examples of this (as well as the subsequent affirmation by the Supreme Court in R.A.V. v. St. Paul in the early 1990s). I particularly love the Skokie case, because it was Jewish lawyers from the ACLU defending the rights of free speech by Nazis.

BTW, the First Amendment Encyclopedia is a great source for for First Amendment issues.

P.S. I loved your usage of "chazerei" in an earlier post.

 

[Latitude]

A Noob

When I entered the Brave New World of e-bikes in late August 2019, I understood how the e-bike instantly changed my life. An ailing person who could hardly walk, I could suddenly zoom greater and greater distances for exercise, adventures, grocery shopping, and -- the most important of all -- for fun. Even before my ailments developed and manifested their presence, a traditional bike ride was painful for me: Countering headwind or climbing on a bike was no fun; I needed to stop every 5 km for rest. I had no incentive to be on the bike everyday! With the purchase of the first e-bike, I started riding faster, for longer distances, and as frequently as never before!

As a noob with some money, I started buying new e-bikes on the "N+1" principle to end up with 4 very different e-bikes. And, as a noob with some money, I was doing everything to improve what I bought! The number of experiments, new gear, equipment, "improvements" I've done to my e-bikes might fill a decently sized book! And I've been the noob for some three years. Until I changed. After documented 26,000+ km (16,200+ mi) ridden on e-bikes, I think I changed and reached a level of maturity.

Let me describe what I believe in now, and what experiments have brought valuable outcome.

N-1, Or Only Keep The E-Bikes You Actually Ride
If you own several e-bikes, some of them are just gathering the dust. If you choose to ride each of them, the maintenance costs start to mount to an unbearable level. After having determined my real needs, I just reduced the number of my e-bikes from four to just two. I keep a heavy, strong and fast full power e-bike that is priceless for long, demanding trips (especially in the mountains) and a lightweight low power e-bike that I ride on a daily basis, and which has proven to be appropriate for long and fast gravel group rides. Actually, I feel I still own one e-bike too many but it would be hard for me to get rid of either of them!

Use Your E-Bike As Intended By The Maker, Or Do Not Change The Nature Of Your Steed
Disclaimer: I'm only talking of good e-bikes from major bicycle brands.
The big bicycle brand has accumulated decades of experience, and makes e-bikes of a proven geometry and componentry for the intended purpose. "Do not change a bronco into a mule!"

• You have bought a premium commuter e-bike. The bike geometry tells you the e-bike should be ridden in a forward position. What do you do? You think you need to ride in a more upright position; you raise your stem then buy curved handlebars (or Jones H-bars for instance); you are replacing the saddle with the widest and softest saddle you could find. You have changed the very nature of your e-bike. You believe the changes were necessary but surprisingly you still suffer pain in your butt, hand numbness or back aches. So you experiment more and more not to avail really.
• You thought buying a full suspension e-MTB would make your city rides comfortable. Now, you have realised your electric mountain e-bike simply hates city riding! So you swap your off-road tyres for "all-rounders", raise the stem, trim your wide handlebars (ouch!), add a rack and maybe even a kick-stand. You have crippled your mountain-goat to become a cow...
• You thought a road/gravel e-bike was cool. Now, you put a comfortable saddle, a rack/pannier, long fenders, and perhaps a kickstand on your e-bike. Making it even heavier and against its intended purpose.

The issue we all are facing is an universal e-bike does not exist. We are not capable to determine our real needs prior to the purchase, either.

The Stock Components Are Not Necessarily Hopeless
If everyone of us noobs could have just tried riding our first e-bikes without immediately modifying them... I managed to make many unnecessary replacements of stock components on my e-bikes. For instance, it took me almost 3 years to realize the stock Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres on my Vado 5.0 actually were the best thing, and I should have not replaced them in the first place. Or, it took me more than a year to find out the stock Specialized Bridge Sport saddle on my Vado SL was actually a very good thing that I really didn't need to replace with another seat! To be honest, even the stock grips on my both e-bikes that I keep were quite OK! Why to replace anything just because it is "stock"?

The More I Ride, The More Lightweight I Appreciate
That's why I ride my heavy Vado less and less, giving the preference to Vado SL.

Tyre Inflation Pressure
It is true that increasing tyre pressure makes the e-bike roll easier. On the other hand, the tyres are the ultimate bike suspension, especially for dampening rapid road vibrations. Reducing the tyre inflation to the "sweet point" between the rolling resistance and ride comfort is something I could greatly recommend to anyone!

Extra Suspension, A Worthy Thing?
Oh yes. For most of good e-bikes ridden by the Forum members, a Kinekt 2.1 or RedShift Shock Stop suspension seat-post is certainly a valuable improvement for your rear. On the other hand, installing a suspension stem on an e-bike already equipped in any form of front suspension makes little sense. Any type of the front suspension is made to dampen slow vibration; it is the tyres that flatten the rapid vibration.

Saddle
There is no Saddle Holy Grail. If you have chosen riding in a more upright position, most of your body weight will inevitably rest on your butt. Expect back/spine aches. No comfort saddle can be as soft as an armchair if you need to be pedalling your e-bike. With the riding position more forward, you lighten up your ass. Surprisingly, many aches might have gone. Once you have moved your body position forward, you will notice a seemingly hard and narrow saddle might even become more comfortable, especially if you ride in chamois. A narrower saddle means no chafing on your thighs and axils.

Pedals
Very expensive bikes are delivered without pedals. In most of cases, even expensive e-bikes will be delivered with cheap unimpressive pedals. It is your choice what you do.
I do not want to start yet another holy war with the lovers of "clipless" (who actually clip in). Just want to say good wide platform pedals with traction pins are almost as good as clipless pedals/cleated shoes, and I often ride platform pedals just in sneakers. It is your choice though.

Handlebar grips
As I mentioned before, the stock grips can be in many cases excellent. I'm a great believer in the enhancement called SQlab Innerbarends, which I perceive as one of the greatest inventions for flat handlebars. Innerbarends let me lean forward without hand numbness, be myself more aerodynamic, have perfect access to brake levers and the shifter, and keep my arms closer still retaining a pretty wide handlebars. I spend almost my ride time in the Innerbarends now. Having the Ergon GP2 bar ends available too, I hardly use them now.

Rear-View Mirror, Daytime Lights, And The Helmet
I simply cannot ride without the rear-view mirror. Inexpensive Mirrycle is the type I've used on my all e-bikes. The glass part never broke in any of several Mirrycles I have owned. The secret of the proper Mirrycle set-up is to tighten all screws very strongly. The threaded parts are made of brass there; brass can stand very strong tightening, and you can hear it squeaking when you tighten the screws: it is the proper thing.

Many of EBR Forum members are bitching they cannot switch their daytime lights off. "See and Be Seen". It is for your own safety!

Wearing the helmet goes without saying.

Great summary Stefan, I just read it now. I still have only one e-bike, a commuter model that I have modified to include a lot of trail riding, and it has served me very well for the range of riding I do in a rural/small town urban/forested area. Over 12,000 km now. I have often considered adding a second bike more suited to trail riding, but I’m not sure it would be much of an improvement over my current one for that purpose, in my environment.
I don’t regret any of the changes I have made to my bike and have not reverted back. These include Redshift stem and seatpost (original had no suspension), wider tires with more tread, mirror, rear bags (for repair kit, etc as well as carrying), stronger headlight, wider range rear cassette, knobby pedals and a Brooks saddle.
This has indeed altered the bike from its original purpose, but I can’t think of an off-the-shelf bike that would suit me better. It is quiet and has good range, but has enough power for my trail needs. Not to dispute your basic premise. I enjoy tinkering and appreciate the results In this case.

 

[tomjasz]

Village of Skokie v. National Socialist Party of America in the late 1970s was one of the premier examples of this (as well as the subsequent affirmation by the Supreme Court in R.A.V. v. St. Paul in the early 1990s). I particularly love the Skokie case, because it was Jewish lawyers from the ACLU defending the rights of free speech by Nazis.

We staffed a Jewish girls' camp that summer. Most from Skokie and HighlandPark. They were terrified.

 

[Djangodog]

Man, you see a completely different world. I see and hear the bitterness between the spandex racers and general riders every time I'm on an MUP.

I don't know any racers or even fitness riders that use a MUP except maybe for a family outing. Maybe I am in a different world, (Northern New England). We have some big races up here, but we tend to have a fairly small and inclusive cycling community. Most of us seem to be aware that distracted drivers and rednecks are the real enemy.

 

[tomjasz]

I don't know any racers or even fitness riders that use a MUP except maybe for a family outing. Maybe I am in a different world, (Northern New England). We have some big races up here, but we tend to have a fairly small and inclusive cycling community. Most of us seem to be aware that distracted drivers and rednecks are the real enemy.

Not a lot of nice trails here so there are a bunch of asshats on the MUP.

 

[Roamers]

I don't know any racers or even fitness riders that use a MUP except maybe for a family outing. Maybe I am in a different world, (Northern New England). We have some big races up here, but we tend to have a fairly small and inclusive cycling community. Most of us seem to be aware that distracted drivers and rednecks are the real enemy.

I can only recall one "racer looking" rider on our community path. They appear to prefer riding the roads where slow bikers and walkers are not. Many moons ago when I was a bit more athletic, we never thought of riding a path where slower obstacles were often encountered.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

pretty broad generalization there! i don’t think it’s as bad/polarized as you suggest. around here, a LOT of people cycle, and there is a highly varied mix of eBikes and acoustic bikes. other than two snide but harmless comments over the last couple years, the reaction to my various eBikes has been nothing but positive. lots of “does it have a motor,” “how do you like that bike?” “want to motor pace me” and so on. the worst, on a long climb, was “you’re too young for an eBike,” which led to an interesting conversation. one guy out of approximately 100,000 said “man, turn that whining thing off.”

My cycling club. The questions I'm getting are: "What is the battery range?" "Will your batteries last until the end of the ride?" "Will you let me ride it?" 'Will you pace us? Let us do a keirin!" or a question from a member who never rode with me: "How long did the e-bike man last on the ride?" On that ride (last Saturday), I was honoured by riding along the sixth best competing gravel cyclist of my province Mazovia! (He actually "won" that Saturday event, and I was in the second place, unintentionally... It was not a race though. Only the speed was at the racing level).

MTB bros are amount the most close knit around here! they have to be to get trails built and maintained and of course they all have to drive to the trailheads, leading to more tightly knit groups forming up.

You are right of course. I overlooked that these people are rather staying in the singletracks they built themselves

An anecdote from today (Monday). I was riding my Speed Vado with dense traffic. As we were waiting at the red light, a driver of a big van opened his window and rather friendly said: "There are so many bike paths around..." to which I replied "This is not a bike" and moved slightly forward to show him the number plate of my e-bike. He only nodded as he acknowledged his error

 

[mschwett]

I can only recall one "racer looking" rider on our community path. They appear to prefer riding the roads where slow bikers and walkers are not. Many moons ago when I was a bit more athletic, we never thought of riding a path where slower obstacles were often encountered.

i always choose a road over a shared path unless it's a really, really dangerous road. mixed use paths have dogs on them. 'nuff said

 

[tomjasz]

i always choose a road over a shared path unless it's a really, really dangerous road. mixed use paths have dogs on them. 'nuff said

Nope we’ll almost no. our MUP path around a lake only allows dogs an 1/4 of the MUP. we road and walked our week trained mutt on the MUP without incident, but yup, too mant poorly trained mutts on the MUPS.

 

[mschwett]

Nope we’ll almost no. our MUP path around a lake only allows dogs an 1/4 of the MUP. we road and walked our week trained mutt on the MUP without incident, but yup, too mant poorly trained mutts on the MUPS.

wow. that would NOT go over well here. i've never heard of a MUP that doesn't allow dogs! i love getting yelled at by dog owners when i'm riding carefully and safely at or near the posted limit and their dog darts across the path to explore the adjacent brush and their leash becomes a tripwire...

 

[tomjasz]

wow. that would NOT go over well here. i've never heard of a MUP that doesn't allow dogs! i love getting yelled at by dog owners when i'm riding carefully and safely at or near the posted limit and their dog darts across the path to explore the adjacent brush and their leash becomes a tripwire...

Oops week should have been WELL trained mutt on the MUP. But yes you’re right. The same tards leave their dog s*it too. On the dog section there are stations with poop bags and trash cans. Half the asshats are to lazy..

 

[Stefan Mikes]

wow. that would NOT go over well here. i've never heard of a MUP that doesn't allow dogs! i love getting yelled at by dog owners when i'm riding carefully and safely at or near the posted limit and their dog darts across the path to explore the adjacent brush and their leash becomes a tripwire...

Well, I'm especially careful about unleashed dogs as I could see a bad accident of my friend (riding a Como) that involved a big unleashed dog.

Whenever I can see a dog and the dog owner in my line of sight, I slow down dramatically (almost to standstill) and begin a humorous talk: "What a beautiful doggie! Very smart doggie! Doggie is smart and will not let him get ridden over by a bike?" Perhaps my nation is different but playing a merry dog-lover always works in my case. I can always stop my e-bike if the doggie is not that smart!

 

[Avg_Joe]

Well, I'm especially careful about unleashed dogs as I could see a bad accident of my friend (riding a Como) that involved a big unleashed dog.

Whenever I can see a dog and the dog owner in my line of sight, I slow down dramatically (almost to standstill) and begin a humorous talk: "What a beautiful doggie! Very smart doggie! Doggie is smart and will not let him get ridden over by a bike?" Perhaps my nation is different but playing a merry dog-lover always works in my case. I can always stop my e-bike if the doggie is not that smart!

Works here too. I love dogs, however we have been without one for over 2 yrs now (after having them for over 25 yrs), and actually I find it therapeutic to chat, let the dog "discover" me and the ebike, and just have a pleasant interaction. It is clear when the dog and/or owner just wants me to move along, so a kind word and acknowledgement while slowly passing seems to be appreciated.

 

[tomjasz]

Works here too. I love dogs, however we have been without one for over 2 yrs now (after having them for over 25 yrs), and actually I find it therapeutic to chat, let the dog "discover" me and the ebike, and just have a pleasant interaction. It is clear when the dog and/or owner just wants me to move along, so a kind word and acknowledgement while slowly passing seems to be appreciated.

Good on you, here too! I start off with my gentle bell warning. And just slow down and enjoy the interaction. I miss my pups...

 

[m@Robertson]

pretty broad generalization there! i don’t think it’s as bad/polarized as you suggest.

Well, around here its every bit as harsh as I'm making out. The fast commuters who are trying to get somewhere can't stand the leisure riders. I can typically point to at least one incident per day where a fast, experienced cyclist makes an aggressive pass to brush back either a walking tourist or a riding one. Bear in mind I live in a tourist town with an unusually large (for California at least) commuting, utility (cargo bikes besides mine exist which in and of itself is unusual compared to Central California) and local recreational (i.e. spandex+road bike) population, where the same infrastructure is shared with out of town tourists who are riding slowly and in leisurely fashion.

The negativity is palpable and oftentimes easily visible. Frankly when confronted with a Surrey bike with 4 people on it and nary a clue how to safely proceed when its crowded with bike and street traffic, I am every bit as vehement.

Just a few days ago I had some guy get in my face for - get this - staying behind him... he was bothered by my loud clicky freewheel I guess - I consider it an advantage when riding on a MUP as it makes people aware of my approach without me having to say 'left' over and over again. Anyway he got in my face for not passing and I shot back that I'm the one who decides when its safe to go. He was one of the crowd who I am sure would have darted thru a gap. Me riding a longtail with wideloaders, I'm not going to go there. This was not some punk kid it was a guy in his 50's wearing what looked to be work clothes on a nice road bike.

 

[J.R.]

Well, around here its every bit as harsh as I'm making out. The fast commuters who are trying to get somewhere can't stand the leisure riders. I can typically point to at least one incident per day where a fast, experienced cyclist makes an aggressive pass to brush back either a walking tourist or a riding one. Bear in mind I live in a tourist town with an unusually large (for California at least) commuting, utility (cargo bikes besides mine exist which in and of itself is unusual compared to Central California) and local recreational (i.e. spandex+road bike) population, where the same infrastructure is shared with out of town tourists who are riding slowly and in leisurely fashion.

The negativity is palpable and oftentimes easily visible. Frankly when confronted with a Surrey bike with 4 people on it and nary a clue how to safely proceed when its crowded with bike and street traffic, I am every bit as vehement.

Just a few days ago I had some guy get in my face for - get this - staying behind him... he was bothered by my loud clicky freewheel I guess - I consider it an advantage when riding on a MUP as it makes people aware of my approach without me having to say 'left' over and over again. Anyway he got in my face for not passing and I shot back that I'm the one who decides when its safe to go. He was one of the crowd who I am sure would have darted thru a gap. Me riding a longtail with wideloaders, I'm not going to go there. This was not some punk kid it was a guy in his 50's wearing what looked to be work clothes on a nice road bike.

Often I'll say people think what they see out their window is the same for everyone. I understand your point. I have ridden in Philly, Baltimore, DC and other east coast cities. It's a shame really, as cities and tourist locations often have better infrastructure. My local rail trail is 45 miles long, it leads to many places, I have commuted on it, but it's packed dirt and gravel and it never gets plowed. The good thing is it's not crowded and people are respectful and nice. The pros and cons of life.