Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

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I'm happy with my handlebar riser and an upright sitting position. No back pain, and no pressure on the wrists or hands at all. The bum gets a bit sore after while, but less so than when leaning forward which puts pressure directly on some of the bones in that region. (I just got a gel cover for my saddle, going to try that out in a day or so.)
 

REXLION​

Gel seat covers are a bandaid :( for your seat. The cover is not part of the seat.

Get a nice seat with dual elastomer springs and memory foam padding.
This seat is good with a lifting handle and not too much money.

I own one. good seat for the money.

71ydecCkfJL._AC_SX522_.jpg
 

REXLION​

Gel seat covers are a bandaid :( for your seat. The cover is not part of the seat.

Get a nice seat with dual elastomer springs and memory foam padding.
This seat is good with a lifting handle and not too much money.

I own one. good seat for the money.

71ydecCkfJL._AC_SX522_.jpg
Memory foam is an even worse band-aid than gel. Memory foam simply compresses without providing support. It works for an entire body lying in a bed, but putting the stuff in seats, shoes, or anything that exerts relatively high pounds per square inch (non-distributed weight) is a waste.

Anyway, I did buy a Cloud 9 seat and it's way better than the OEM seat. But after sitting on it for 45 minutes it starts feeling uncomfortable. So I'm going to try the gel cover. Someone else on the forum said they got one and really liked it.
 
Memory foam is an even worse band-aid than gel. Memory foam simply compresses without providing support. It works for an entire body lying in a bed, but putting the stuff in seats, shoes, or anything that exerts relatively high pounds per square inch (non-distributed weight) is a waste.

Anyway, I did buy a Cloud 9 seat and it's way better than the OEM seat. But after sitting on it for 45 minutes it starts feeling uncomfortable. So I'm going to try the gel cover. Someone else on the forum said they got one and really liked it.
High density memory foam is different than the bed memory foam.

This is wrong what you said about the seat I posted a picture of.

It's very comfortable and provides GREAT SUPPORT.
 
Memory foam is an even worse band-aid than gel. Memory foam simply compresses without providing support. It works for an entire body lying in a bed, but putting the stuff in seats, shoes, or anything that exerts relatively high pounds per square inch (non-distributed weight) is a waste.

Anyway, I did buy a Cloud 9 seat and it's way better than the OEM seat. But after sitting on it for 45 minutes it starts feeling uncomfortable. So I'm going to try the gel cover. Someone else on the forum said they got one and really liked it.
getting the right start can be hard. me I need a seat flat end to end and side to side but with only a relief not a cutout. and to too wide or my thighs rub and hurt. a firm seat is usually the best but it needs to be the right shape.
 
Cloud 9 seats are pretty nice.. we went through a couple different ones before we found one that works pretty good..

I have no butt ( wife had pretty much chewed it off) so a cushy seat is a must
 
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I had to change to a Schwinn "No Nose" (Nose less) seat, it gave me the 4-1/2+" shorter nose length, when compared to the Cloud 9 seat, for the extra room I needed to reduce 95% of the stand over height problems of the top bar, by allowing me to slide off the seat as close as possible to the seat stem.
The Schwinn seat is a very good seat IMHO. YMMV
 
I am irritated with the censorship of the Administration.
Is deleting the word "Mature" in accordance with the freedom of speech? What was wrong with the word "Mature" in the thread title?
Does the Forum Administration suggest I am an "immature e-biker"?

You could ask why the title was changed . I thought that it was odd that it had. Maybe experienced would be acceptable. I took the title as meaning that you had been doing it for some time. Someone must have been offended, but I am not sure how.

From Merriam-Webster

Definition of mature (Entry 1 of 2)
1 : based on slow careful consideration
a mature judgment
2a(1) : having completed natural growth and development : RIPE
mature fruit
(2) : having undergone maturation
b : having attained a final or desired state
mature wine
c : having achieved a low but stable growth rate
paper is a mature industry
d : of, relating to, or being an older adult : ELDERLY
airline discounts for mature travelers
3a : of or relating to a condition of full development
a man of mature years
b : characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual
mature outlook
a show with mature content
4 : due for payment
a mature loan
5 : belonging to the middle portion of a cycle of erosion
a mature stream

I still don’t get it, but if someone wants to be offended, they will find a way.
 
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  • The bike geometry tells you the e-bike should be ridden in a forward position. What do you do? You think you need to ride in a more upright position; you raise your stem then buy curved handlebars (or Jones H-bars for instance); you are replacing the saddle with the widest and softest saddle you could find. You have changed the very nature of your e-bike. You believe the changes were necessary but surprisingly you still suffer pain in your butt, hand numbness or back aches. So you experiment more and more not to avail really.
Whilst I've only been e-biking for a year and a half and only owned two (well, three. First two were same make/model and were returned for controllers dying in first week) I have ridden regular bicycles for 40+ years and I really have to call bullshit on that... to a degree. Because personally? No. Just... no!

The moment I get on those wafer thin "padding what's that" narrow seats with the straight bars leaning way the hell forward, the area around my coccyx lights on fire. The pain starts out as an annoyance, and proceeds over the course of a ride up into the sacrum to the point it hurts to try and lift my ass out of the saddle. Just trying to dismount is pure agony. Likewise the neck pain of cranking the head way the hell back so I can even look where I'm going much less look-around is absurd. Do you want agonizing neck pain? Because that's how you get agonizing neck pain!

This narrow seat lean way the smeg forward garbage isn't for everyone. A lot of us just don't bend that way and have more pain -- in the first few yards just TRYING to ride that way -- than one would ever have in a comfy seat positioned upright.

The true absurdity being the mental-huffing-midgetry of saying "padding on the seat bad" and then wearing glorified diapers. As if it makes any flipping difference which side the padding is on! Is there padding between A and B? Yes. Job done.

A more common screwup is people using saddles that aren't smooth. Friction causes chafing, so the glossier, shinier, and slippery the better. A reason I can't stand spandex. Scratchy, uncomfortable, clingy, sticky when wet, itchy when dry... and people wear this stuff by choice? I'd sooner wear wool underpants!

Though I have observed a lot of riders doing crazy stuff that would cause hand numbness... like not aligning their brake levers so that when your hand sits in the natural flat position, they are inline with your fingers. You want to know what causes hand numbness? Holding onto the bars with a death grip and keeping your fingers bent all the time. You're pulling the tendons taut instead of leaving them "relaxed and ready!" Same reason so many people get carpal using a mouse -- a problem switching to a thumb driven trackball where your hand remains in the flat and "proper" relaxed position and you're not constantly stressing the wrist and lower arm moving the mouse around instantly solves.

Don't even get me started on the damage narrower bars cause likely akin to the strain we see when people put their keyboard above navel level. The ideal position is actually at the waistline though that can vary slightly based on the ration between arm and torso length.

I've been an accessibility and efficiency consultant both for web presence and office-spaces for twelve years. Including witnessing both for prosecution and defense in US ADA and UK EQA cases. SO MUCH of this "ergonomic" stuff people spew about bicycles reeks of the same scam artist nonsense you see with office furniture. Manufactured fancy sounding BS bingo that has not a wit to do with comfort, and everything to do with suckering gullible masses into spending more money for more cheaply made and poorly engineered products. Or as Steve from Gamers Nexus would say, "But what does that mean?"
1664875343457.png


To that end whenever people talk about the "pain" being relieved by this narrow wafer-thin seat straight-bar ass-in-air position, I can't help but be reminded of the early '90's ergonomic stool scam, and the plethora of knee injury lawsuits that followed.

And today the same type of gullible quacks, morons, and fools light money on fire for anything labeled "gaming"

To be frank, the very notion that a bike "from the factory" and "as designed" is going to fit is absurd. The most basic rule, one size fits all fits nobody. I imagine if you're in the perfect 5'6" to 5'9" in the perfect 150 pound weight in perfect health, all that chazerei might actually work and you'd be fine with a bike "as designed". I know as I shed the 100 pounds the past 10 years a lot of "comfort" stuff that wasn't comfortable now is. But to go full on flaw of averages? No.

A bespoke suit always fits. To that end, at least bike makers are now coming out with frames in different sizes beyond what size tire they take. Not sure when that became a thing, but I like it.

Though I really wish my aventure was 6" longer with 3 degrees more rake. That's what she said.
 
Whilst I've only been e-biking for a year and a half and only owned two (well, three. First two were same make/model and were returned for controllers dying in first week) I have ridden regular bicycles for 40+ years and I really have to call bullshit on that... to a degree. Because personally? No. Just... no!

The moment I get on those wafer thin "padding what's that" narrow seats with the straight bars leaning way the hell forward, the area around my coccyx lights on fire. The pain starts out as an annoyance, and proceeds over the course of a ride up into the sacrum to the point it hurts to try and lift my ass out of the saddle. Just trying to dismount is pure agony. Likewise the neck pain of cranking the head way the hell back so I can even look where I'm going much less look-around is absurd. Do you want agonizing neck pain? Because that's how you get agonizing neck pain!

This narrow seat lean way the smeg forward garbage isn't for everyone. A lot of us just don't bend that way and have more pain -- in the first few yards just TRYING to ride that way -- than one would ever have in a comfy seat positioned upright.

The true absurdity being the mental-huffing-midgetry of saying "padding on the seat bad" and then wearing glorified diapers. As if it makes any flipping difference which side the padding is on! Is there padding between A and B? Yes. Job done.

A more common screwup is people using saddles that aren't smooth. Friction causes chafing, so the glossier, shinier, and slippery the better. A reason I can't stand spandex. Scratchy, uncomfortable, clingy, sticky when wet, itchy when dry... and people wear this stuff by choice? I'd sooner wear wool underpants!

Though I have observed a lot of riders doing crazy stuff that would cause hand numbness... like not aligning their brake levers so that when your hand sits in the natural flat position, they are inline with your fingers. You want to know what causes hand numbness? Holding onto the bars with a death grip and keeping your fingers bent all the time. You're pulling the tendons taut instead of leaving them "relaxed and ready!" Same reason so many people get carpal using a mouse -- a problem switching to a thumb driven trackball where your hand remains in the flat and "proper" relaxed position and you're not constantly stressing the wrist and lower arm moving the mouse around instantly solves.

Don't even get me started on the damage narrower bars cause likely akin to the strain we see when people put their keyboard above navel level. The ideal position is actually at the waistline though that can vary slightly based on the ration between arm and torso length.

I've been an accessibility and efficiency consultant both for web presence and office-spaces for twelve years. Including witnessing both for prosecution and defense in US ADA and UK EQA cases. SO MUCH of this "ergonomic" stuff people spew about bicycles reeks of the same scam artist nonsense you see with office furniture. Manufactured fancy sounding BS bingo that has not a wit to do with comfort, and everything to do with suckering gullible masses into spending more money for more cheaply made and poorly engineered products. Or as Steve from Gamers Nexus would say, "But what does that mean?"View attachment 137059

To that end whenever people talk about the "pain" being relieved by this narrow wafer-thin seat straight-bar ass-in-air position, I can't help but be reminded of the early '90's ergonomic stool scam, and the plethora of knee injury lawsuits that followed.

And today the same type of gullible quacks, morons, and fools light money on fire for anything labeled "gaming"

To be frank, the very notion that a bike "from the factory" and "as designed" is going to fit is absurd. The most basic rule, one size fits all fits nobody. I imagine if you're in the perfect 5'6" to 5'9" in the perfect 150 pound weight in perfect health, all that chazerei might actually work and you'd be fine with a bike "as designed". I know as I shed the 100 pounds the past 10 years a lot of "comfort" stuff that wasn't comfortable now is. But to go full on flaw of averages? No.

A bespoke suit always fits. To that end, at least bike makers are now coming out with frames in different sizes beyond what size tire they take. Not sure when that became a thing, but I like it.

Though I really wish my aventure was 6" longer with 3 degrees more rake. That's what she said.
It’s hard to know where to begin.

The “pad” in a cycling short is not the same as a cushion. It is there to eliminate chafing and irritation while absorbing sweat. Most of the “comfort” is not because it is “cushy”.

An athletic riding position has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with performance, (aerodynamics, efficient peddling position, bike control…). Pure racing bikes are not comfortable. A Lamborghini is not comfortable. A Ducati Panigale V4 is not comfortable. They are not meant to be. But a Moto Guzzi Norge for example still puts you in a riding position that allows you to lean into the wind and handle the bike aggressively when you need to whil remaining reasonable comfortable for all day riding. Sitting upright on a large and soft saddle may feel nice for a trip to the corner store, but it does not allow you to pedal efficiently, maneuver efficiently or ride into a headwind with any efficiency. The large and soft saddle will make your but ache because when peddling, you actually use those muscles and they don’t work well when you are sitting on them. Sitting upright also loads your spine vertically, so every hard hit is delivered to a fairly rigid column.

I never expected to be overly “comfortable” when on a motorcycle or bicycle. I would rather have a good riding position that does no harm. I am not looking to be uncomfortable, but sitting upright on a large, heavily padded seat is not a very engaged position, (you can’t get out of saddle to allow your legs to absorb a big hit or to climb a steep hill).

There is no reason for the cycling industry to be “scamming” anyone. If they thought that your description of the better bike was correct, they would simply build and market that. There are upright and docile bikes available, but usually for riding slowly in very flat areas. Those bikes are fine for some, but if you want to spend the day in the saddle and cover a good amount of mixed terrain on imperfect surfaces and might hit a head wind, then it is probably best to be in a more efficient riding position and not sitting on important muscles,
 
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@Jason Knight the funny thing about your rants against the normative ergonomic guidelines of performance biking is not so much the energy put into them, it’s the pretense that your armchair physiology is somehow more meaningful to all of us (otherwise, why write it?) than the decades (centuries?) of experience of millions of cyclists. news flash: we’re not all idiots. i can throw on a pair of shorts, jump on either of my road bikes, and ride a hundred miles with no discomfort whatsoever. no armchair seat, no suspension, no giant tires, nothing to waste energy. just me (a middle aged guy with a desk job) on a 14 pound bike.

horses for courses. for a short, flat cruise around town or a scenic area, riders with more severe mobility or balance issues, lower speeds, etc more upright geometry is great, as are lower stepover heights and many other types of bikes. you won’t see me (or any other rider who enjoys the fitness/performance side of the sport) denigrating those adaptations.

you’re railing against something you don’t understand and don’t participate in. why?
 
The “pad” in a cycling short is not the same as a cushion. It is there to eliminate chafing and irritation while absorbing sweat. Most of the “comfort” is not because it is “cushy”.
Don't understand how more material attached to the rider reduces "chafing", particularly given the materials. Seems to cause the exact opposite. Common sense -- that increasingly rare superpower -- would make one think it should be the opposite as well. Slippy seat + loose fitting clothing == reduced chafing, not the other way around!

An athletic riding position has nothing to do with comfort.
Then why is it marketed as such? Why do people like the OP claim it is such? Why do they keep rambling on with unfounded claims about "reducing pain" if that's not what it's for?

I never expected to be overly “comfortable” when on a motorcycle or bicycle. I would rather have a good riding position that does no harm.
At which point methinks we have a different definition of the word "comfort". Since instant pain inducing would seem to do a lot of harm, thus wanting a position that doesn't hurt me!

I am not looking to be uncomfortable, but sitting upright on a large, heavily padded seat is not a very engaged position, (you can’t get out of saddle to allow your legs to absorb a big hit or to climb a steep hill).
That's another bit of BS I keep hearing. If you can't stand up out of your seat regardless of type or bar position? Bullcookies! More so things like cruiser bars mean you can get up out of the seat fully standing instead of contorting your back into an even less comfortable position since you go from bent arms to straight arms, instead of straight to straight! Well, unless you do something stupid like put the seat up so high you're getting full extension whilst seated. Aka way to also screw over your knees.
There is no reason for the cycling industry to be “scamming” anyone.
Business. Money. Thus, there's every reason to scam people. It's called marketing. As someone who's worked closely with marketing departments, propaganda and outright bunko are the norm. No different from Paltrow's goop, the naturopathic BS peddled by the turd calling himself an avocado, or the average Intel keynote.

The business of business is business. I heard that somewhere. Old school marketing concepts like customer delight are dead, and marketers killed it. You look at 90%+ of this junk, and what you see are the classic 7 propaganda techniques mated to black hat SEO (Search Engine Optimization) bunko. If the "industry" can throw customers under the bus to make just one extra shiny penny, they'll do it in an eyeblink. More so as the obsession with "constantly growing profits" continues to get more and more unsustainable. Same way investors will rape a company of every last penny of value and leave the broken battered corpse in the alleyway known as "bankruptcy." Don't believe me? Ask Sears, K-Mart, Macy's, and ToysWereUs. Ask the employees and customers of the slowly privatization of "public utilities." Ask everyone involved with credit unions that sleazy dirtbags conglomerates like GSA are swallowing up!

If a business can make more money with lies, pandering, and demagoguery (see Apple) than they can with product quality, value, and caring about the customer? Well, here comes the endless stream of marketing and advertising malarkey.
 
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