Thinking About Buying A Folding E-Bike (Or E-Trike)

[BreakAes]

Hi all,

I'm new to e-bikes. I've yet to test ride any, but I hope to in the next few days.

I was contemplating buying a Sondors Fold X, since I discovered their "good bang for the buck" e-bikes yesterday. I also just came across the Rad Mini, and was reading the user thread here about that model.

Originally I was planning to get a recumbent trike, due to the fact that I have a spinal cord injury now, and I thought I'd need something like a trike. I test rode a trike without power, and at least for now I could only go slowly, and may only be able to really pedal on flat ground. But then I thought I might be able to ride an e-bike, provided it has a throttle to get up to speed without pedaling, in addition to having pedal-assist once at speed, so I'm going to test ride e-bikes to see how I feel about them.

I'm thinking about doing some traveling with a truck and a truck camper, plus I need something for exercise in general, so if I can safely ride a folding e-bike, I thought that would be the thing to go for. If it doesn't feel right, I may get an e-trike, or a hand-trike, or both.

Anyway, I wanted to get some opinions on the Sondors Fold X vs the Rad Mini.

Regarding the pricing, the Fold X with the Shimano gear option is $1,123 shipped vs $1,499 for the Rad Mini.

The Rad Mini has front and rear racks, and a 750 watt motor, but a smaller battery. It's also 62 pounds, whereas the Fold X is 50 pounds.

Those seem like the main technical differences. It's kind of hard to choose between the 2 by just browsing. I wish I could try them both in person.

Anybody know how the performance will differ between the 2, given the fact that the Rad Mini has a motor with 250 watts more power, but is 12 pounds heavier?

Since I have a spinal cord injury, and would likely have to use the throttle to get up to speed before trying to pedal, I'm wondering if those 250 watts of additional power would be what I want, especially on hills. Both are 7 speeds though.

Are there any other folding e-bikes with fat tires that would compete with the Sondors Fold X and Rad Mini?

In terms of tackling any kind of terrain, fat tires are what you want for that, correct?

Let me know what you think, thanks.

 

[mrgold35]

I was on the fence about a year ago between Sondors, Radrover, and Volt 4" fat tire bikes. I marked Sondors off the list because of the 30 day warranty and small motor. No one ever said "My ebike has too much power and I wish I've gone with a much smaller watt motor."

I'm about 270lbs and I add about another 20-25 lbs with bike accessories, rack+gear, and commuter back pack. The Radrover weights the same as the Radmini. I have zero issue pedaling in PAS 2-4 and/or using the throttle to get going across intersections in a hurry or up inclines. The Rad Power bikes have a nice feature of an on/off button for the twist throttle AND you have full 750 watts of power at any PAS level from 0-5. I added a clip on thumb throttle for easier access and better control. Also nice to have the throttle if you need to walk your bike up inclines or stairs. I trail ride a lot and thumb attachment makes it easier to access the gears, brake, throttle, and holding tight on handlebar grips. I would check with the Sondors X to see how the throttle works compared to the Radmini.

I ended up with purchasing two Rad Rovers and put over 3000 miles between them both in less than a year. I would also factor in a suspension seat post since the folding ebikes don't have a front suspension.

One side note: I always used PAS 5 on my work commutes with the standard Kenda tires and my top cruising speed was around 18-19 mph with peak (downhills) around 21-22 mph. I wore my rear Kenda out in around 800 miles and replaces with Vee8 tires. I can now cruise 19-20.5 mph in PAS 3-4 (depending on wind and how level) and my top peak speed is 23-25 mph on the same inclines. I never use PAS now and just use the throttle if I need full power for a short run.

 

[vincent]

I have a rover and a mini, rad power has very good customer service and I think a better warranty than Sondors?
if it was me I would spend a little bit extra and get the mini, think it would be worth it

 

[rich c]

I think you would need a full suspension bike if you are recovering from spinal cord injury. The folding bikes have smaller diameter tires which I think will result in a harsher ride on many surfaces. I have a road tire on my Haibike XDURO Full Seven S RX and love it for urban riding. I just rode around the north side of Chicago this past weekend, and felt like the full suspension was a necessity. Between pot holes and construction, it was like riding a single trail in the woods! If you buy the Sondors, join the Facebook page. Sondors has about 1 or 2 people handling customer service and service is not a real thing for them, selling is their main directive. You can get a lot of help on the Facebook page, but you have to buy the parts and install them yourself if you have problems. I have two of their fat bikes, but I am handy with bike repairs.

 

[BreakAes]

Thanks for the help.

Are the only smaller folding e-bike options the Rad Mini, Sondors Fold, and VoltBike Mariner? I saw this guy pitching his Hoverfly e-bikes in a YouTube video, and it looks like they're rebranded Mariners, or copies. I think the Rad Mini is superior to the Mariner.

Interesting that the Vee8 tires were that much of an upgrade.

And yeah, Sondors only has a 30 day warranty, so that's another point.

I probably will go for the Rad Mini if I feel like an e-bike will work for me, and there's nothing better out there. The 750 watt motor is the main draw in my mind, and I think I'd need the racks. An e-trike would probably be the best option for me, but those are large and heavy, and more expensive. I'll have to see how I feel after testing the Rad Mini.

I think the main thing I need to consider with riding a bike and having this injury is the effect on the function of my legs, and if that would make things too difficult to ride. I thought I would deal with getting suspension down the line, however, my roommate works for Cirrus Cycles, and he was telling me their BodyFloat is the best suspension seatpost in the industry, so I might go for that if I really want it...so much money. Several years ago I bought an SR Suntour SP-8 NCX seatpost, but the BodyFloat does seem better. Any thoughts on the BodyFloat?

I actually did join the Sondors Facebook group, and the Sondors Forums where I started a thread. I'm thinking the Rad Mini would be the better option, but I'll keep looking into Sondors since their Fold models just got released, and there's not much info on them yet.

 

[jazz]

I'd go for the X. Yes, the warranty is shite but Sondors bike are easy to work on anyway and they mod super easy! I have had a couple for 1.5 years and never had issues with any major components. Sondors will have tons more aftermarket parts and upgrades down the road you just won't get with the mini.

Add to that a vibrant and fun Facebook owners group which really helps one another with issues big or small and knocks up the fun factor several notches.

The rad mini seems to be a competent bike but also looks like other folding bikes which too me is not that cool. The design Sondors actually looks cleaner, sleeker, and more modern than any other folding bike. The battery hidden in the frame is smart. The 12lb weight difference is a big difference for folding bikes.

 

[mrgold35]

I started out with the Suntour 400mm and later switched to the Bodyfloat v2 350mm with orange springs. I also did the Cloud-9 11.5X12.5 cruiser seat with both seatposts.

From my experience:
- I would call the Suntour and Bodyfloat about even on smooth paved surfaces (as you expect with 4" fat tires at 20-23 psi)
- Both felt about even with undulating trails or large single dips/bumps on paved roads (like transitioning from asphalt road to concrete sidewalk at speed)
- the Bodyfloat is far superior at smoothing out small road/trail imperfections like washboards, pockmarks, poorly maintained and cracked asphalt/concrete road/sidewalks, etc... The Bodyfloat can smooth out a lot better than the Suntour anything that would vibrate your backside like a jackhammer.

Before I had either suspension seat post, I would have to lift off my seat pretty much every time there was a bump in the road. That wears on you having to lift up off the seat so many times on my work commute or fun rides at my cruising speed of 15-20 mph. I can now stay seated on about 90%-95% of the time on the same bumps with either suspension seatpost.

I'm 6'3" with 32-34" inseam and the 350mm Bodyfloat was over the max height limit once I dialed it in correctly. At the time I ordered, the 420mm Bodyfloat wasn't available. I had to ride the Bodyfloat a little lower than I like and I started to get an ache in my right knee. I switch back to my 400mm Suntour and my knee pain went away. I now use the Bodyfloat for my other pedal bike and saving up for the 420mm Bodyfloat down the road.

I'll say for me, the Suntour was the 80%-85%% solution; while, the Bodyfloat was the 90-95% solution. I ordered from Amazon because of the 30 day return policy.

 

[Alphbetadog]

Here is an interesting YouTube video of a gal using a Rad Mini with her RV:

 

[Alex M]

Are the only smaller folding e-bike options the Rad Mini, Sondors Fold, and VoltBike Mariner? I saw this guy pitching his Hoverfly e-bikes in a YouTube video, and it looks like they're rebranded Mariners, or copies.

Copies. As soon as you start manufacturing something at a Chinese factory - and this is where 99% of ebikes are being made - a dozen clones come out few weeks later, from several factories nearby (could be even from the same factory).

Traveling with a truck and camper, carrying a trike will be a pain. Leave this for the last, if two-wheel won't work for you.
I understand the appeal of a folding bike, given a limited space inside. But... There is a price to pay. Smaller wheels, heavier weight (than a comparable rigid bike), fewer choice of handlebars style, fewer suspension options. Unless you are absolutely sure you need it to fold.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[rich c]

View attachment 17871

I'd go for the X. Yes, the warranty is shite but Sondors bike are easy to work on anyway and they mod super easy! I have had a couple for 1.5 years and never had issues with any major components. Sondors will have tons more aftermarket parts and upgrades down the road you just won't get with the mini.

Add to that a vibrant and fun Facebook owners group which really helps one another with issues big or small and knocks up the fun factor several notches.

The rad mini seems to be a competent bike but also looks like other folding bikes which too me is not that cool. The design Sondors actually looks cleaner, sleeker, and more modern than any other folding bike. The battery hidden in the frame is smart. The 12lb weight difference is a big difference for folding bikes.

We know the fat bikes have been easy to mod, but are you sure you can make that statement about the Fold? I didn't know anyone that has mod parts or even any mods at all. They just started arriving this week, right?

 

[BreakAes]

Thanks for the input y'all.

I used to ride a Downtube Mini, so I'm familiar with riding a folding bike, and that one is probably about the smallest you can get. Of course that was before I got injured, but I understand the fat tires help a lot in terms of making the ride friendly.

One of the big reasons I think I need a folder is because the main tube is lower, and I have trouble getting on a regular bike. Yesterday I tried to straddle my roommates' bikes and I had to lay them down, step through the frame twice, then pick them up. It made me nervous, and I think I'd need to hold on to something while doing that. And I may want to low-ride, so I think the folders would be better for that. Also, if the seat is low enough, I might be able to get on the bike from the back. I'm going to have to see what happens when I test ride. With the Downtube Mini, my main gripe was the difficulty in climbing hills. If I feel the fat tire e-bikes are stable for me, then the electric power should take care of my main gripe with small folders.

Does anybody know if a BodyFloat would have a long enough seatpost to work with these folding e-bikes?

One of the things I was surprised by was the weight of the Rad Mini. I'll go with whatever's best overall, but of course less weight is preferable.

I was chatting with someone at the Sondors Facebook group, and he said, "The motor isn't what determines the power. The battery voltage and controller do. The Fold X is 48V (battery) x 15A (controller) = 720 watts stock. The Rad mini also uses a 48V battery but no mention of the controller amperage. Since they say it's limited to 20mph, it's probably a 10A or 15A controller which is the same or less than the Sondors..You should ask them what the controller output is. The Rad also has less capacity/range than the Sondors Fold X. The Sondors is 14Ah versus 11.6Ah for the Rad Mini. That's 20% more range for the Sondors. We also know that we can remove the speed limiter on the Sondors, AND add at least 30% more power at a cost of less than $60 (a 20A controller will give you 960W of power). As a bonus you would pay $600 more for the Rad Mini with less range and less power. Your decision though"

And I asked him why manufacturers mention the motor wattage, and he said,

"Because it's sexy and easy

We've had folks running the stock 350w motor in the fat bikes at over 1000W by upgrading the controller and battery. The Bafang motors will handle way more power than their rating. My guess is that the 500W motor will handle 1200W of power just fine. We've had some members swap their 350W motors for 750W motors because they went from 36V to 52V and put in 35A controllers. Those monsters are doing 1800W. The motor wattage is pretty much a rating, not an output. A 500W motor will handle more power than a 350W motor, for example. But it's not the motor determining the power."

Is this info true? I assume he's correct. I'll send Rad an email to see what the Mini's controller output is.

One thing I don't like about the Rad Mini is that the battery is smaller, and if I wanted a spare it'd be $500! Anybody know about how much a spare battery would be for the Fold X?

Also, if I buy the Fold X, I want to purchase the Shimano gear option, right?

Thanks.

Edit: So I saw this at the Rad Mini's tech specs page: CONTROLLER: 48V 12 Amps Continuous (22 Amps Peak). Does this mean the Fold X has a better stock controller? Nevermind, apparently the Rad Mini has the better stock controller.

 

[vincent]

sondors does seem to have a lot of options for upgrading , at least for their other bikes
and if you are fine working on your bike etc then the warranty may not be a big deal

12lbs is a lot of weight to lose, that a bigger battery might sway me

i have one bike with the battery in the downtube similar to the fold, if never have to take it out and just charge it on the bike fine, but it is a hassle to remove it on mine

the bike does look more normal/stealth with it but i do not like to take the battery out

yes the bodyfloat fits the mini, unless maybe you are 6'4" or something- not sure how tall it goes
i use it on mine at 5'6"

 

[jazz]

We know the fat bikes have been easy to mod, but are you sure you can make that statement about the Fold? I didn't know anyone that has mod parts or even any mods at all. They just started arriving this week, right?

Not yet but they are coming as been stated by a few who supply parts

 

[mrgold35]

If you have time, I would wait until the X hits the road and read the reviews and ask questions on the Sondors forums. There might be a review on Electric Bike Review once it is out?

 

[jazz]

If you have time, I would wait until the X hits the road and read the reviews and ask questions on the Sondors forums. There might be a review on Electric Bike Review once it is out?

The reports have been coming in the last few days from buyers on the Sondors FB group that have just started receiving their Folds and so far the reviews have been glowing. A aluminum folding bike with a Shimano 7 speeds, 500w motor, 48v 14ah Panasonic battery ebike for $1124 shipped. Hard to beat that.

 

[Alex M]

One of the big reasons I think I need a folder is because the main tube is lower, and I have trouble getting on a regular bike.

Ah, then you need a step-through: https://www.bigcatbikes.com/collect...long-beach-cruiser-xl-500?variant=31109056012. Or a similar frame with regular tires.

Folder top-tube isn't much lower than a regular bike. If you look at the folders discussed here, the top-tube is ~26-27" from the ground, despite smaller 20" wheels. There are rigid frames with 26" wheels that are lower than that, some are not even step-through - the top tube slopes towards the seat, coming down to 24-23" as it's nearing the seat.

 

[BreakAes]

Would the Fold X battery need to be removed for charging?

I'm 5' 9.5" and I have a long torso. I'll talk to somebody at Cirrus Cycles, and see what they say.

Thanks for the tip on the step-through frame. I don't know if the Big Cat would work for me though. I think I'd need to be able to sit on the bike like a scooter and use the throttle to get up to speed before hopefully being able to switch to the pedals with the assist. The Big Cat doesn't seem to have a throttle. Can you add one? And how much would that cost?

And it looks like the seat on the Big Cat would be higher than on the Fold X. Anybody know how high the lowest seat position on the Big Cat is? And how high is the lowest seat position on the Fold X?

I'm thinking maybe the best plan would be to get on the Fold X from the back, but I'll have to see how it goes. I could also see about laying the bike on its side and stepping over it, although I wouldn't want to scuff it. Compared to the regular bikes I tried, I think it would be easier to step over one tube, rather than 2, although the Fold X tube is big.

When standing, I can bring my knee up to form about a 90 degree angle, give or take, and the left leg is easier to raise. I'm hoping that with time, and maybe exercise, that things will improve, but I don't think I can know what'll happen.

Another thing is that I'd prefer to not have to get a ride from Bellingham to Seattle to try the Rad Mini. Any suggestions for finding a local owner of an e-bike, ideally with a low seat and a throttle, who'd let me do a test ride?

Thanks.

 

[vincent]

I bet someome around your area has a radmini to try

Maybe try radpowers facebook page

I think the big cat does have a throttle but i may be wrong, i like those step thru fat tires they have and considered getting one a while back

Post on the big cat forum and ask someone to measure the seat height for you

 

[Alex M]

The Big Cat doesn't seem to have a throttle. Can you add one? And how much would that cost?

And it looks like the seat on the Big Cat would be higher than on the Fold X. Anybody know how high the lowest seat position on the Big Cat is? And how high is the lowest seat position on the Fold X?

Big Cat does have a throttle, click on the specs. Starting off the dead stop can be tough on the motor though.

The frame size of BC is 18". This is (usually) how low the bottom of the seat can go, measuring from the bottom bracket. The height of bottom bracket, in turn, is half-diameter of the wheel - though it looks like on BC it's 1 or 2" lower. So, 29-30" minimum height of seat bottom. More or less. Doesn't mean that you will have to lower it all the way down - at some point your knees will flex too much.

Fold X - don't know, they don't tell, ask somebody who owns one. It might be difficult to find anybody who has BC. There are plenty folder riders out there, - people need to put in a trunk or take on a train/bus. Your needs don't mandate a folder, IMO.

"Compared to the regular bikes I tried, I think it would be easier to step over one tube, rather than 2, although the Fold X tube is big."
The height of the top tube is more important in your case (i.e. laying it down, stepping over, then lifting). As long as it's less than your inseam, you're good. Either of these folders have top tube ~25-27". On step-through you would have t0 step over 16-18" tube, to straddle it without laying it down first.

Having said all that, - with your health requirements I wouldn't buy any of this without trying it first. Especially if you plan to lay it down and lift up every time - these machines are way heavier than a non-powered bike.

 

[BreakAes]

Thanks, I made a post at Radpower's Facebook page.

I have yet to try it, but I had the thought that if the bike has a good kickstand, then I might be able to put my right hand on the seat, then grab my right knee or shin with my left hand, to help lift my right leg over the main tube. I think I could get over a tube 18" in height.

It looks like that little tube on the Big Cat is about 14 or 15" above the ground. I'll email them and ask. And I'll ask somebody at the Sondors Facebook group about the Fold X's main tube height, and lowest seat height.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to try before buying. I did ride my roommate's cheap Chinese scooter the other day though. It was more nerve-wracking than I would have liked, but it was wonky, wouldn't start properly, and had what seemed like really bad torque. That coupled with the fact that the Fold X is 50 pounds makes me feel like being able to ride an e-bike is promising. Regardless, I should be able to try at least the Rad Mini soon.

I forgot to mention, I'm considering buying an RV like a class B camper van. So for that reason, I think it would be better if I could store the bike inside the RV. A folder should make that a lot easier.