The transition

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Well China are going nuke.

www.caixinglobal.com

Beijing Clears Eight New Reactors as China Accelerates Nuclear Buildout

Most of the newly approved units will use the domestically developed Hualong One design as Beijing pushes to expand operating nuclear capacity to 110 million kilowatts by 2030
www.caixinglobal.com www.caixinglobal.com

www.world-nuclear-news.org

Third reactor at Changjiang plant starts up

Unit 3 at the Changjiang nuclear power plant in China's Hainan province has attained a sustained chain reaction for the first time, China National Nuclear Corporation has announced. ;
www.world-nuclear-news.org
 
Mr. Coffee said:
They are going down on an exponential curve, not linearly. The graph makes it look approximately linear but because the axis is logarithmic that makes it exponential.
And it is "just a projection" based on sixty years of historic data. SMRs do not have any data to base their costs on so anyone advocating for them is basically making the numbers up as they go along. I'd take a "mere" projection over made up numbers any day of the week.

Yes, many things impact that cost curve. But the long-term trends are undeniable and you can't pretend they do not exist.

Just look at the graph and understand what it means.
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I never said that they don't exist. And you never talk about how these millions of panels are end of life 30 years after they are put up, and the waste that they create.

I am not against renewables. There is a place for everything, when it's done right.
 
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stompandgo said:
I never said that they don't exist. And you never talk about how these millions of panels are end of life 30 years after they are put up, and the waste that they create.

I am not against renewables. There is a place for everything, when it's done right.
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Oh come on. You can do better than that.

We recycle solar panels all the time. I can drop them off at the recycle facility in a town of 1000 people just down the highway from me.

By weight solar panels are more than 90 percent aluminum and glass. Things we recycle all the time.

On the other hand, I know of quite a few people around here with off-grid solar builds from the 1980s who are still using the same panels and they are working fine. I never have been able to figure out where that "30 year lifetime" came from. Except probably from FUD mongers who are afraid of change.

As long as you brought it up, please tell me how we are going to process and safely store the waste from SMRs? That doesn't seem to be a solved problem. And even if you argue that the dangers are exaggerated, I'm 1000 percent sure you'd rather have a pallet of old solar panels in your garage than the equivalent weight in nuclear waste.
 
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The state of Washington has mandatory solar panel regulations, and thus has the infrastructure in place to recycle them. They are the outlier. 90% of all solar panels end up in landfills. Massachusetts has three recycling facilities in the state. A solar array owner has to pay for disassembly and disposal. Some solar vendors offer cradle to grave systems, where the disposal costs are part of the installation cost, but not all.

Again, I am not against renewables, done the right way.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
As long as you brought it up, please tell me how we are going to process and safely store the waste from SMRs? That doesn't seem to be a solved problem. And even if you argue that the dangers are exaggerated, I'm 1000 percent sure you'd rather have a pallet of old solar panels in your garage than the equivalent weight in nuclear waste.
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They currently building new waste storage facilities. But there is actually a better solution; breeder reactors. Unfortunately, politics are preventing using that solution.

 
Things do not have to be black and white.
Given the way we have historically increased our energy consumption, and as we keep coming up with new ways to consume even more with things like crypto and AI consuming huge amount of energy, we need more than one solution.
Renewable like solar and wind are essential and should be scaled as much as decently possible, but nuclear reactor are the next better thing and are needed to reduce to use of the dirtier energy producers.
 
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stompandgo said:
The state of Washington has mandatory solar panel regulations, and thus has the infrastructure in place to recycle them. They are the outlier. 90% of all solar panels end up in landfills. Massachusetts has three recycling facilities in the state. A solar array owner has to pay for disassembly and disposal. Some solar vendors offer cradle to grave systems, where the disposal costs are part of the installation cost, but not all.

Again, I am not against renewables, done the right way.
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And I am arguing that we are rapidly converging on a "right way." No reason to think that all states (well, except the states one step away from savagery and witch-burning, and we civilized folk can do nothing but shake our heads at them in pity) will have the infrastructure to recycle solar panels in the future. Probably sooner than you'd think.

You seem to be continually arguing that a not-currently-existent future technology is somehow more useful for solving problems today than a technology that exists today. The world does not work that way.

We currently have no practical infrastructure to store nuclear waste at scale. You can argue that is because of "politics" but that doesn't make the problem go away. And it wouldn't be the first time in history that a promising technology was smothered in the cradle by "politics".

If the waste from 30-year-old solar panels is a problem, you need to acknowledge that recycling a 30-year-old nuclear plant (of any kind) is also a problem. Otherwise you are just being dishonest and making yourself look foolish.
 
stompandgo said:
90% of all solar panels end up in landfills.
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So roughly about the same percentage as old windows. And asphalt roofs? 4-5 million get replaced every year and the estimates I've seen are a 10-20% recycle rate.

It will be decades before solar panels are a significant part of our construction waste stream. I do agree that systems should be setup now for developing industries so we don't end up in the same place as many current industries where we just turn a blind eye to the waste.
 
Disposable eScooters are a problem. They are designed by marketing teams and not by people who can fix stuff. Many for example have cable actuated brakes where the inside pad adjustment cannot be accessed because the motor blocks it. To change a tire is nearly impossible. The batteries are proprietary and not supported. Everything falls apart on them. It costs more to repair than to buy a new one. Also, the back is heavier than the front so when slowing the rear end wants to act like a pendulum and swing to the front.

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PedalUma said:
Disposable eScooters are a problem. They are designed by marketing teams and not by people who can fix stuff. Many for example have cable actuated brakes where the inside pad adjustment cannot be accessed because the motor blocks it. To change a tire is nearly impossible. The batteries are proprietary and not supported. Everything falls apart on them. It costs more to repair than to buy a new one. Also, the back is heavier than the front so when slowing the rear end wants to act like a pendulum and swing to the front.

View attachment 213519
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One thing we definitely excel at, is to find more ways to create insane waste.

What a civilization we live in....
 
Right, you will believe anything Iran says because you hate Donald Trump that much. The truth is that, like most terrorist organizations, there are multiple groups vying for power within Iran and getting an agreement from one group doesn't mean you have the agreement of the others: The Supreme Leader (Ayatollah), the IRCC, The civilian government and presidency, and the Parliament and State Councils. Diplomacy just isn't going to work there.
 
RunForTheHills said:
Right, you will believe anything Iran says because you hate Donald Trump that much. The truth is that, like most terrorist organizations, there are multiple groups vying for power within Iran and getting an agreement from one group doesn't mean you have the agreement of the others: The Supreme Leader (Ayatollah), the IRCC, The civilian government and presidency, and the Parliament and State Councils. Diplomacy just isn't going to work there.
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You need to learn about sarcasms :)
No authoritarian leader can be trusted, so no. Iran is not more trustworthy than T.

But being exposed to a daily litany of lies from T who will say everything and its contrary in the space of a few hours, based on what he needs to say to try and look good (especially on iran), does make us more sensitive to his side of lies :)
 
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RunForTheHills said:
Right, you will believe anything Iran says because you hate Donald Trump that much.
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Apologies but no... The bulk of planet earth does NOT believe anything/everything Iran says.
The bulk of planet earth also does not believe most of what the POTUS says.
None of this is the fault of the bulk of planet earth...
 
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