The problem of the "disposable" ebike

[ebikemom]

This post expresses my opinion. As always my opinions don't represent EBR. I am a forum member here like everyone else, but just one who does a bit of volunteer work to support this lovely forum.


We live in a society where manufactured products are disposable. Planned obsolescence is a part of product design. Why can't I buy a dishwasher that will work for 20 years? Not because companies can't make them, but because companies want to sell more dishwashers. So, if we get 10 years out of a dishwasher, we think that is reasonable. At that point, it is cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Hence, last summer we got rid of our 2008 dishwasher and I came home with a 2018 dishwasher:

Product disposability is a huge problem in our society. Toys (parents, can you relate? Think of the silliness of birthday party "goody bags??"). Clothing. Furniture. Um, even homes.... Where I live, the streets are always full of construction vehicles because someone is constantly tearing down repairable 1950's and 1960's homes to build much larger brand new homes... currently four projects in various stages, that I know of, happening on my block.

But is this how things should be, with our growing problem of landfill space and pollution?

Enter ebikes.

There are many reasons to ebike. We started with recreation in our minds. From there, ebiking quickly spread through our family as a basic transportation method and car replacement. Yes, we still have two cars, but maybe need a tank of gas a month per car, or not.

Ebiking has the potential to improve our environment by serving as a car replacement. But what about the problem of the disposable ebike. This is the ebike that lasts a year. Or two. And, then, due to lack of parts, or lack of a shop to do repairs, or a battery that has sat for too many years unused, or a battery that ends its lifespan, or a combination of these things, the bike becomes, as we say here, "a brick."

How is ebiking helping our environment if we send them off to landfills as part of a frequent replacement cycle? How can we make better economic and environmental decisions by insisting on higher quality, supported products that we can enjoy for many years?

How can ebike companies be made accountable for the lifespan of their product?

Would it be possible to move toward a system where ebike companies are responsible for what they sell? I think of the example of printer ink cartridges. It used to be that those just got thrown away. Then, printer cartridge companies became responsible for collecting and recycling them. What if manufacturers were responsible for the entire lifespan of their product? And, what if this spread over various types of products, not just printer cartridges?

I know I'm dreaming. But maybe I'm not the only dreamer. Maybe we can have a better world where we manufacture responsibly, keep and care for our purchases, and take better care of our planet. Every little baby step helps ...

 

[Alex M]

Would it be possible to move toward a system where ebike companies are responsible for what they sell?

With millions of bikes manufactured and sold in China and from China, and thousands of backyard factories, and thousands of fly-by-night "companies" (read - some guy pushing questionable items through Ebay, Amazon, Aliexpress) - I think this would not be possible. Local US regulations... a drop in the bucket.

 

[ebikemom]

Alas, I think you are correct. (insert sadly weeping emoji!)

 

[AlanDB]

Battery standardization and a recycling system like we have with car batteries would go a long way towards keeping an older ebike functional and resellable. I can still use my 50 year old flashlight because I can buy D cell batteries at Walmart. But lets say I get 4 years out of my ebike battery. If my bike and motor are still working well, will I be able to get a replacement battery? Will I be able to get rid of the old battery in an environmentally acceptable way?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

My own advice would be to vote with your dollars and patronize companies who avoid planned obsolescence. That makes it more likely that companies in related industries will take note and try to emulate their success.

 

[harryS]

Maybe our dishwasher will blow up, but it is from 1989 when we moved into this house So was our water heater. I only replaced it last summer because I didn't want to see it blow up. Furnace and AC date from the same year. Now we're on our third washer but still the same dryer. Second fridge.

At my age, it's not something we worry about, Everything we own might last longer than either of us.

 

[ebikemom]

patronize companies who avoid planned obsolescence

Let's hope that more and more of these companies emerge!!!

 

[ebikemom]

Maybe our dishwasher will blow up, but it is from 1989 when we moved into this house

I think the older appliances lasted longer. I loved my old washers and dryers ... they lasted for such a long time!!!!!

 

[ebikemom]

Battery standardization and a recycling system like we have with car batteries would go a long way towards keeping an older ebike functional and resellable. I can still use my 50 year old flashlight because I can buy D cell batteries at Walmart. But lets say I get 4 years out of my ebike battery. If my bike and motor are still working well, will I be able to get a replacement battery? Will I be able to get rid of the old battery in an environmentally acceptable way?

I totally share your concerns. I have a Pedego, but will they be selling replacement batteries that fit my bike in five years? I hope so!!! If not, can I get my battery re-packed locally? I hope so!!! Time will tell!

 

[Ebiker01]

This post expresses my opinion. As always my opinions don't represent EBR. I am a forum member here like everyone else, but just one who does a bit of volunteer work to support this lovely forum.


We live in a society where manufactured products are disposable. Planned obsolescence is a part of product design. Why can't I buy a dishwasher that will work for 20 years? Not because companies can't make them, but because companies want to sell more dishwashers. So, if we get 10 years out of a dishwasher, we think that is reasonable. At that point, it is cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Hence, last summer we got rid of our 2008 dishwasher and I came home with a 2018 dishwasher:
View attachment 31893
Product disposability is a huge problem in our society. Toys (parents, can you relate? Think of the silliness of birthday party "goody bags??"). Clothing. Furniture. Um, even homes.... Where I live, the streets are always full of construction vehicles because someone is constantly tearing down repairable 1950's and 1960's homes to build much larger brand new homes... currently four projects in various stages, that I know of, happening on my block.

But is this how things should be, with our growing problem of landfill space and pollution?

Enter ebikes.

There are many reasons to ebike. We started with recreation in our minds. From there, ebiking quickly spread through our family as a basic transportation method and car replacement. Yes, we still have two cars, but maybe need a tank of gas a month per car, or not.

Ebiking has the potential to improve our environment by serving as a car replacement. But what about the problem of the disposable ebike. This is the ebike that lasts a year. Or two. And, then, due to lack of parts, or lack of a shop to do repairs, or a battery that has sat for too many years unused, or a battery that ends its lifespan, or a combination of these things, the bike becomes, as we say here, "a brick."

How is ebiking helping our environment if we send them off to landfills as part of a frequent replacement cycle? How can we make better economic and environmental decisions by insisting on higher quality, supported products that we can enjoy for many years?

How can ebike companies be made accountable for the lifespan of their product?

Would it be possible to move toward a system where ebike companies are responsible for what they sell? I think of the example of printer ink cartridges. It used to be that those just got thrown away. Then, printer cartridge companies became responsible for collecting and recycling them. What if manufacturers were responsible for the entire lifespan of their product? And, what if this spread over various types of products, not just printer cartridges?

I know I'm dreaming. But maybe I'm not the only dreamer. Maybe we can have a better world where we manufacture responsibly, keep and care for our purchases, and take better care of our planet. Every little baby step helps ...

Really ,really insightful and very intelligent topic and things you mentioned , e bike mommy !
From my reasoning, it has to do with the general mass population level of intelligence , ignorance, respect for environmental issues , and responsibilities for future generations.
Now let’s look at the good part- like say how Tesla-the cars is able to change the thinking and ways of car commerce for an almost planetary system . Mercedes/vw/bmw/ and many others they are all doing electric cars now.
But as far as obsolete items , the companies also made them that way to not last too long, is called PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE. Is actually a required criteria when making a product now for many of the worlds biggest companies . Profit. Profit. Profit. And in some states is illegal to fix your own items !
If the general public intelligence level and responsibility towards environment would be like yours and others like minded people, it would be a drastic positive change. If you observed the younger generation (gen. Z) is very much like that on a very wide scale. They buy as cheap and with a decent quality as possible , they care for the environment and lots of other postive thinking.
So hopefully they (GEN. Z) will get stronger and stronger and push for massive changes . And you know The marketing companies and big commerce have a hard time understanding them and their needs/wants....well is time to adapt to what they want for a better world.

 

[Camac]

As far back as the 60s Vance Packard wrote a book The Waste Makers which was about Consumerism. "The book argues that people in the United States consume a lot more than they should and are harmed by their consumption". It commented that manufacturers design products to fail 1 day after the warranty runs out. One example he quoted was potato peelers. It was found that people were attracted to buying red items but brown handled peelers would blend in and get wrapped up and thrown out with the scraps. People were hesitant about buying brown items so the peelers were mounted on a large card with lots of red writing.

 

[Alex M]

Will I be able to get rid of the old battery in an environmentally acceptable way?

Sorry, no good news for you.
The heart of ebike - the battery - does not lend itself for recycling well. There are several companies in the US that salvage battery casing and BMS and re-pack it with new cells, but cells are still disposable - the company would dispose of it for you. Like most battery materials, Li cells is not something you want in landfill.
But it's still a good idea to try re-filling it, before spending money on fueling 3rd world factory smokestacks.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Don't buy Bosch appliances if you hate disposable. Their failures are like clockwork. Bosch dishwasher and washer, never will buy again. Super expensive, yes 'efficient ', but to get a repair man or the parts is simply obscene. I generally do all my own repairs and have done so on Bosch to keep them running longer than their obviously planned obscelence.

Best washer by far today is Speedqueen. You'll get the 25+ years.

Dishwasher , who knows. They are all pretty much junk these days. Kenmore used to be good, and Kitchenaid is now hit or miss. Used to be better.

Bosch power tools are hands down the worst.

Only Milwaukee, or Makita depending on the tool, and Dewalt. (Great tablesaws)

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Don't buy Bosch appliances if you hate disposable. Their failures are like clockwork. Bosch dishwasher and washer, never will buy again. Super expensive, yes 'efficient ', but to get a repair man or the parts is simply obscene. I generally do all my own repairs and have done so on Bosch to keep them running longer than their obviously planned obscelence.

Funny, I've got a Bosch dishwasher, washing machine, and dryer going on 20 years. Hopefully I haven't jinxed myself by posting this .

I more live in fear that my refrigerator will fail, since I'll need to rip out some real nice cabinets to take it out and replace it. But it also is going strong.

 

[pnop]

There aren't enough people who want to pay for a 20 year dishwasher.

 

[AugustMainer]

Maybe our dishwasher will blow up, but it is from 1989 when we moved into this house So was our water heater. I only replaced it last summer because I didn't want to see it blow up. Furnace and AC date from the same year. Now we're on our third washer but still the same dryer. Second fridge.

At my age, it's not something we worry about, Everything we own might last longer than either of us.

My washer and dryer are 32 years old and my dishwasher is 30 - they are well made from back in the day but new appliances might not be made as well for the reasons that ebikemom mentions.

 

[harryS]

Sadly enough, no one wants to ride my wife's first ebike anymore, Tastes change. Now it's too big and bulky, so that's almost like it was disposable, except the battery is used on subsequent bikes.

My first ebike started its life in the Trek shop in Wisconsin around 1991. The frame, seat post, front wheel, and the quirky eccentric crankset are still original. I could ride this Trek until it's time for a trike.

In five years time, I expect power cells will be far safer than today, less expensive, maybe with higher density, and rebuilders will be able to restuff many existing packs. Might not be lithium. People will look back and say ... haha...those batteries were so potentially dangerous and primitive. Otherwise, everything else on your Pedego should still work when you replace the battery,

 

[AugustMainer]

Really ,really insightful and very intelligent topic and things you mentioned , e bike mommy !
From my reasoning, it has to do with the general mass population level of intelligence , ignorance, respect for environmental issues , and responsibilities for future generations.
Now let’s look at the good part- like say how Tesla-the cars is able to change the thinking and ways of car commerce for an almost planetary system . Mercedes/vw/bmw/ and many others they are all doing electric cars now.
But as far as obsolete items , the companies also made them that way to not last too long, is called PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE. Is actually a required criteria when making a product now for many of the worlds biggest companies . Profit. Profit. Profit. And in some states is illegal to fix your own items !
If the general public intelligence level and responsibility towards environment would be like yours and others like minded people, it would be a drastic positive change. If you observed the younger generation (gen. Z) is very much like that on a very wide scale. They buy as cheap and with a decent quality as possible , they care for the environment and lots of other postive thinking.
So hopefully they (GEN. Z) will get stronger and stronger and push for massive changes . And you know The marketing companies and big commerce have a hard time understanding them and their needs/wants....well is time to adapt to what they want for a better world.

Yes, for important and highly valid environmental reasons WE all need to push for legislation that makes “planned obsolescence “ illegal. If it were illegal to sell a product designed to become waste sooner than it should that would be a glorious day! Write to your politicians now.

 

[rich c]

Yes, for important and highly valid environmental reasons WE all need to push for legislation that makes “planned obsolescence “ illegal. If it were illegal to sell a product designed to become waste sooner than it should that would be a glorious day! Write to your politicians now.

Legislation? Government controlled product life? How would that be enforced? How would you set a life span for every single product sold in America? Not to mention the world-wide manufacturing base that the United States Government has no control over except for trade war politics. Our government can't write a single law without going to court now. It's up to the people, not the government. I'd prefer that we teach people how to maintain and care for mechanical devices. It's difficult to find a repairman for many things since people just throw it away. A better start is in the education of repair and reuse. Our bicycle co-op here in Peoria, IL has classes and free shop time for kids to repair and build a bicycle from one that would have normally gone to the crusher. All at no cost to them. They also teach how to repair a tire instead of buying a new tube every time they get a flat. We also have a place called the Dream Center. They are starting classes to give teenagers an education in DIY matters. Carpentry is one of those early classes. A far superior method of addressing the issue vs another unenforceable law on the books in my opinion.

 

[Nutella]

My own advice would be to vote with your dollars and patronize companies who avoid planned obsolescence. That makes it more likely that companies in related industries will take note and try to emulate their success.

Are there any? Honest question