The Future of eBikes: How Fast is Too Fast?

[Dapstar]

E-Bikes are getting faster, more powerful, and pushing the limits of what’s street-legal. With models hitting 40+ mph and custom builds going even beyond that, it raises the question ,how fast is too fast for an eBike?

Should high-speed eBikes be regulated like motorcycles? Or should riders have the freedom to push the limits? Some say anything over 28 mph belongs in a different category, while others argue that technology is evolving, and laws need to keep up.

What do you think? Should eBikes have a speed cap, or should we embrace the thrill of high-performance rides? Also, drop your fastest eBike setups lets see who’s really pushing the boundaries

 

[gromike]

High speed ebikes are already illegal in the US, unless registered as a motor vehicle. Do over twenty and you better be pedaling.
Though, me thinks, some ebikers doing a speed run will pedal like crazy if they see a cop on their tail.

 

[Watana Bob]

I have two class 3 e-bikes and I like the ability to exceed 20 mph when the conditions are favorable. That said, I always use common (or is it uncommon) sense,and keep my speed at 15 mph or less on mup’s and other congested areas. When traveling along roadways I’ll push it up to 18-22 mph, downhill sometimes to the low 30’s (I don’t have Rab’s cast iron balls to get into the 40’s)
So to your question, if those unrestricted bikes stay off of bike paths and multi use trails and other congested areas, and strictly ride along roads only, then I personally would not have a problem with them doing so, the police and the law may have a different view on the matter though.
40+ mph and those guys bite it, they need hamburger helper to keep all the body parts together.

 

[mrgold35]

It make sense to categorize ebikes as motor vehicles if they exceed and can maintain a certain speed on public roads and spaces. No registration if the ebike follows the local laws for Class I/II/III ebikes in public spaces. My Class II Radrover is limited to 20 mph; but, I've had a few downhill runs of 30-32 mph (pretty much gravity assist). I don't think those situations should categorize an ebike into motor vehicle registration if those speed cannot be maintained in all situations (uphill, level, and down hill). My Himiway Cobra is a Class III and I've had it up to 32 mph on a top speed test run. We have restrictions on Class III on (e)bike trails needing to stay under 20 mph. I don't exceed that speed limit (sometimes I get passed by the "Tour de France" pedal bikes going +20 mph).

It might be a problem for the modified ebikes compared to purpose built +40mph ebikes? I don't think most bike tires, rims, brakes, or suspensions are engineered for +40 mph? My cable brakes or Kenda fat tires would eventually start fail at +40 mph. I had to upgrade my OEM brake calipers to Spyke TRP caliper/pads because of them getting glazed over when I started work commuting 17-20 mph.

 

[6zfshdb]

I have two class 3 e-bikes and I like the ability to exceed 20 mph when the conditions are favorable. That said, I always use common (or is it uncommon) sense,and keep my speed at 15 mph or less on mup’s and other congested areas. When traveling along roadways I’ll push it up to 18-22 mph, downhill sometimes to the low 30’s (I don’t have Rab’s cast iron balls to get into the 40’s)
So to your question, if those unrestricted bikes stay off of bike paths and multi use trails and other congested areas, and strictly ride along roads only, then I personally would not have a problem with them doing so, the police and the law may have a different view on the matter though.
40+ mph and those guys bite it, they need hamburger helper to keep all the body parts together.

I agree. However, if law enforcement cracks down on illegal bikes on the street, it may force these outlaw riders onto the MUP's & trails where enforcement is much more difficult.

 

[Chargeride]

My concern is going down hill, if you are doing 30 and a cop sees you, pulls you over for doing 30 without pedalling.
So you point out it was downhill and the cop isnt fully up on ebike laws, he might think the speed limit operates the brakes or something.
Next thing your bike is impounded for checks.
Thesedays, I can see that happening.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My concern is going down hill, if you are doing 30 and a cop sees you, pulls you over for doing 30 without pedalling.
So you point out it was downhill and the cop isnt fully up on ebike laws, he might think the speed limit operates the brakes or something.
Next thing your bike is impounded for checks.
Thesedays, I can see that happening.

This reminds me of a funny 1970s Polish song by title 'Radar Boys':

There is a cow standing in the field suffering as she's full of milk
Maciej's wife runs to her while there is a disco riding the road
It's the boys riding, them radar boys
Blue hats, batons by their side
...
There was a conscript riding a bicycle
Passing a forest, dark clouds above him
He was riding fast; it was downhill
They stood behind a bend, impounded his bike
The boys have a fun, the soldier needs to walk
...
And when it was getting dark, it turned out
That they weren't policemen, that they were fake cops
Time for the finale, the punch line begins
More and more disguised people but hard to get the original.
------------
You don't need an e-bike to experience that You only need to believe the ACAB stuff

 

[BEC111]

It make sense to categorize ebikes as motor vehicles if they exceed and can maintain a certain speed on public roads and spaces. No registration if the ebike follows the local laws for Class I/II/III ebikes in public spaces. My Class II Radrover is limited to 20 mph; but, I've had a few downhill runs of 30-32 mph (pretty much gravity assist). I don't think those situations should categorize an ebike into motor vehicle registration if those speed cannot be maintained in all situations (uphill, level, and down hill). My Himiway Cobra is a Class III and I've had it up to 32 mph on a top speed test run. We have restrictions on Class III on (e)bike trails needing to stay under 20 mph. I don't exceed that speed limit (sometimes I get passed by the "Tour de France" pedal bikes going +20 mph).

It might be a problem for the modified ebikes compared to purpose built +40mph ebikes? I don't think most bike tires, rims, brakes, or suspensions are engineered for +40 mph? My cable brakes or Kenda fat tires would eventually start fail at +40 mph. I had to upgrade my OEM brake calipers to Spyke TRP caliper/pads because of them getting glazed over when I started work commuting 17-20 mph.

Bicycle speed limits are an enforcement challenge. Where is someone going to monitor speed. Speeds on ascent are going to be much slower uphill compared to flats or downhill. In a rolling hill scenario going really fast downhill helps ensure adequate speed to finish the uphill sections. On a hilly trail with a 15 mph speed limit many cyclists will have trouble going up a hill. On any type of bike.

 

[Gionnirocket]

drop your fastest eBike setups lets see who’s really pushing the boundaries

NARC!

 

[harryS]

Something intended to go 30+ mph and compete with automobiles should be registered as moped/motorcycle. Now it's a motor vehicle and those "no motors" signs on recreational paths apply, That should cover the evolution of two wheeled EV;s,

 

[Tars Tarkas]

I'm not sure different classes of bikes are necessary. A Toyoto Corolla and a Ferrari SF90 XX Stradale are very different in their abilities to go fast, among other things. As far as I know they operate under all the same regulations. And why shouldn't they be? Who needs to do 199 mph? Put up speed limit signs and enforce them. Or rely on common sense. (LOL.) No matter what regulations you choose, it's going to boil down to enforcement. Plus, do we care what people are able to do, or what they actually do? We all have the ability to jay walk and commit murder. Do we arrest everybody, or just the ones who commit the crimes?

TT

 

[PCeBiker]

,..A Toyoto Corolla and a Ferrari SF90 XX Stradale are very different in their abilities to go fast,.. Who needs to do 199 mph?

I remember a car commercial about 20 years ago where they boasted that the wipers work at 100 mph.

Seriously??
Not only will the car break the speed limit on almost every road in North America, it can do it in the pouring rain !!

The commercial lasted a couple weeks then it was pulled.

 

[mschwett]

I'm not sure different classes of bikes are necessary. A Toyoto Corolla and a Ferrari SF90 XX Stradale are very different in their abilities to go fast, among other things. As far as I know they operate under all the same regulations. And why shouldn't they be? Who needs to do 199 mph? Put up speed limit signs and enforce them. Or rely on common sense. (LOL.) No matter what regulations you choose, it's going to boil down to enforcement. Plus, do we care what people are able to do, or what they actually do? We all have the ability to jay walk and commit murder. Do we arrest everybody, or just the ones who commit the crimes?

TT

the enforcement approach is difficult without some combination of a) licensing, b) registration, c) use fees or stiff fines and d) a significant police presence on vehicles with similar abilities. are we requiring people to have a drivers’ license to ride an e-bike? i guess there could be a law that if you’re riding a bike in a bike lane or MUP you’re required to have identification, and maybe all the usual levers used against drivers (impoundment, fines, traffic school, incarceration, etc) could be applied.. but the biggest one - losing your license - isn’t an option unless you require Licenses to ride a bike ! In California, at least, you are not required to have identification unless you’re driving.

even with all that, while the power of automobiles is not regulated, many many other aspects of their design are which makes them suitable for use on public roads - gross weight, height, width, lighting, braking, mirrors, etc. you can easily enforce all these requirements because of licenses and registration, which is a road I really don’t think we want to go down with bicycles. Much better, imo, to define what a “bicycle” is conservatively enough to fit into he performance characteristics of the vehicles which the infrastructure was designed for over the last 50 years - human powered bicycles. A reasonable approach, IMO, is to simply say that an electric bike should be able to perform as well as a fit human could for short periods of time, but indefinitely. The 20mph, 250w “sustained” and 750w peak numbers all make a lot of sense in this context.

 

[PCeBiker]

I think the best way to do it is unlimited power and a 20 mph speed limit.

Just like any car or motorcycle on the road.

Uphill, downhill, flat ground all the same.
Nothing over 20 mph if it has a motor.
Helps make e-bikes safer because they need effective braking on long downhills to be legal.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

the enforcement approach is difficult without some combination of a) licensing, b) registration, c) use fees or stiff fines and d) a significant police presence on vehicles with similar abilities. are we requiring people to have a drivers’ license to ride an e-bike? i guess there could be a law that if you’re riding a bike in a bike lane or MUP you’re required to have identification, and maybe all the usual levers used against drivers (impoundment, fines,

So, for now, bike riders have absolute immunity? I guess I'd be immune too if I knocked someone in the head with a hammer? There is no license or identification required to carry a hammer.

If there is a speed limit and you break it, the bike didn't break the speed limit, you did. Who cares if the bike can go 30 mph, or even 199 mph? If the speed limit is 15 it's the operator's responsibility to keep it at 15 or below.

TT

 

[6zfshdb]

So, for now, bike riders have absolute immunity? I guess I'd be immune too if I knocked someone in the head with a hammer? There is no license or identification required to carry a hammer.

If there is a speed limit and you break it, the bike didn't break the speed limit, you did. Who cares if the bike can go 30 mph, or even 199 mph? If the speed limit is 15 it's the operator's responsibility to keep it at 15 or below.

TT

A few years ago, In the valley cities near here, there was a problem with teens & pre teens illegally riding ATV's on city streets. Ordinances were passed and signs put up but neither had any effect. The police then started ticketing riders and impounding the ATV's. Those with no drivers licenses were threatened with having to wait until they were 18 to get one. The problem completely disappeared within a couple of months and did not return.

Perhaps this approach might keep these illegal street riders in check.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

A few years ago, In the valley cities near here, there was a problem with teens & pre teens illegally riding ATV's on city streets. Ordinances were passed and signs put up but neither had any effect. The police then started ticketing riders and impounding the ATV's. Those with no drivers licenses were threatened with having to wait until they were 18 to get one. The problem completely disappeared within a couple of months and did not return.

Perhaps this approach might keep these illegal street riders in check.

Exactly the approach Carlsbad, CA police are taking now with unlicensed teens on Surrons and Super73s and the like on both public streets and trails. Finally!

And it's definitely getting the parents' attention. The officer I had a chance to chat with in a slow checkout line told me that when the parents learn that the offending bikes have been confiscated, they get furious at the cops, furious at the dealers for calling these e-motorcycles "ebikes" without warning them of the legal risks, or both.

How about at themselves, I asked, for the huge lapse in judgment in letting unsupervised, untrained 14 year-old Johnny loose on the world on a 2,000W e-motorcycle? Hadn't seen that, he said.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

One of the things a lot of people miss about the non-street-legal electric bikes is the liability issue.

On one side, if somebody hits you with a motor vehicle and injures you, chances are you are SOL on getting any compensation from them or their insurance because you were operating an illegal vehicle. To some extent that depends on the state though.

If you, god forbid, cause an accident with your illegal bike than you are in for a universe of pain and suffering. Chances are whatever insurance you have won't help you, and chances are when you get sued you will lose and lose badly. Given what even modest personal injury payouts can be chances are that you will lose your home and your retirement savings and be squeezed dry by lawyers. Oh, did I mention the legal fees you'll have to pay to defend yourself? Nobody will help you with those either.

So even if something isn't "enforceable" by a cop on the bike path you could still find yourself in a world of hurt when things go wrong. That also means if you bought an illegal bike for your precious little offspring to ride to school you could also be sued into the dirt.

For myself I'd rather pay fines and have my bike confiscated than be on the losing side of a personal injury lawsuit.

 

[Roamers]

For myself I'd rather pay fines and have my bike confiscated than be on the losing side of a personal injury lawsuit.

Most people underestimate the level of screwedness they face "if an accident happens and the thing they are driving is in some way noncompliant".

Even worse than 2-wheeled offenders are overloaded RV/Van/PU operators. Amazing naivety on those forums.

 

[jabberwocky]

I personally think the class definitions are pretty good in the US. I have a class 1 emtb and a class 3 egravel and think the cutoffs make sense for the use to which I put them. If anything they are on the generous side; 20mph is pretty fast on trails, and 28mph is actually bordering on dangerously fast on anything but roads IMO. I do like the assist over 20mph though especially on pavement and gravel roads.

I don't think the speed definitions are likely to change anytime soon in the US. The thing to watch is how various government agencies, jurisdictions, etc handle the non-compliant bikes in the coming years. I personally think we will see more action against retailers and manufacturers than individual users, but in some areas even enforcement at the rider level is already happening.