The Experience of a Bicycle

[Cowlitz]

I carry groceries on my Gazelle. The ride changes, the extra weight is noticeable. Carrying a watermelon is especially felt. I cannot find anything that balances a watermelon to put in the other pannier. I also end up using a higher assist. But when the bike is not loaded, it's back to a pleasant ride.

 

[Dave Rocks]

I can't have my AMAZON package shipped like this. no good.

This is how bicycles are used in Asia and there are more bicycles in Asia than all the rest of the world put together.

 

[SC00CHB00CH]

Most of the European model ebikes are pretty well refined ebikes , they have such strict policies that they've gotten quite good at dialing a natural bike feel. Brands like specialized using the Bosch motors should be a starting point.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I can't have my AMAZON package shipped like this. no good.

This is how bicycles are used in Asia and there are more bicycles in Asia than all the rest of the world put together.

Clothing, electronics, plastics, etc are all made in China or Taiwan these days. We live in a globalized world and 90% of the components on most E-bikes including Trek/specialized are made in Asia. Amazon has started using E-bike for deliveries in the UK.

 

[Viking1]

I'm feeling like a dinosaur. I like an ebike that feels like a bicycle. It is responsive, fairly lightweight, and I must pedal. The motor is there because we have hills and I don't like get off my bike to push. It is comfortable to ride for miles and miles. I'm not interested in speed, I'm interested in getting somewhere, but getting some exercise also. I've found the right ebike for me.


I totally agree with you. I feel alive on my Gazelle as well and the bike feels more like an extension of me. I enjoy going through the gears the same as my analog bicycle, but with the Gazelle, it is more like having the confidence to tackle any ride with aplomb.

 

[Mike_V]

I'm feeling like a dinosaur. I like an ebike that feels like a bicycle. It is responsive, fairly lightweight, and I must pedal. The motor is there because we have hills and I don't like get off my bike to push. It is comfortable to ride for miles and miles. I'm not interested in speed, I'm interested in getting somewhere, but getting some exercise also. I've found the right ebike for me.

This forum seems to be going the other way. Most posts seem to be about faux motorcycles and how fast can it go. I find myself coming to it less and less. There are even posts about scaring pedestrians. This is all fodder for the ebikes are too scary group. All this makes me think that ebikes are going to be very heavily regulated soon. I think I'll be safe with my nerdy Gazelle. You?

Same 'ole Same 'ole Cowie:
Please ride further, find a hill and ride further and then, ride further up and downhill because your'll appreciate some nice ebike after 'pushing' that brick.
Live and learn. ( & worrying about regulations? who else cares ? The DEP? Some game Warden? It's not a motor vehicle )

 

[catgirleugenics]

As far as I have seen day to day, they don't exist.

i feel like this is the most important point. i see people doing tricks on actual dirtbikes and quads in downtown Amsterdam (very illegal) just as frequently as i see people on these "dirtbike style ebikes". on the flip side, most of my deliveries come to me by cargo bike. the appliance store even shipped my computer monitors using one. the idea that the government is going to give up good cheap transport over a couple of teenage gearheads is laughable. even in the US i think local governments are very aware that the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[SC00CHB00CH]

Gotta admit that amazon ebike looks so cringe. I want to nuke it from Orbit.
It's even worse when you research the Abiotic Oil Theory.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Unfortunately, my-way-or-the-highway and I-know-best-you-suck seems to be an attitude common to cyclists. We fight amongst ourselves and that weakens the entire community....

I'm afraid that my-way-or-the-highway and I-know-best-you-suck are baked into human nature.

Both are special cases of the whole us-them thing. And anonymity really brings it out. Examples on this forum that go both ways...
o US = cyclists, THEM = drivers
o US = ebikers, THEM = unmotorized riders
o US = mid-drive fanciers, THEM = hub motor fans
o US = throttle fans, THEM = throttle haters

My other hobby is making things that move in interesting ways with LEGO. The same dynamic plays out in AFOL (adult fan of LEGO) forums.

A perennial conflict sure to cause rancor...
o US = purists who wouldn't dream of modifying a LEGO part, THEM = profligrates who don't think twice when all else fails.

And all this over a toy that, like the bicycle, nearly everyone loves! Astounding.

 

[Djangodog]

Same 'ole Same 'ole Cowie:
Please ride further, find a hill and ride further and then, ride further up and downhill because your'll appreciate some nice ebike after 'pushing' that brick.
Live and learn. ( & worrying about regulations? who else cares ? The DEP? Some game Warden? It's not a motor vehicle )

Actually, at some point it is a motor vehicle that’s pretending to be an ebike, probably so that it can take advantage of the privileges afforded to ebikes.

 

[tomjasz]

I don’t want an eBike that feels like a bicycle. I want inexpensive reliable transportation that gives me an alternative to using our cage. I haven’t driven in years, and waiting for the neurosurgeons to sort our next move I never pedal under any level of torque. I clown pedal PAS to simply keep range of motion or throttle. For those of us less than able an eBike provides a level of freedom and self reliance. I can get across town 90% on a MUP with one stop in

 

[tomjasz]

Actually, at some point it is a motor vehicle that’s pretending to be an ebike, probably so that it can take advantage of the privileges afforded to ebikes.

at what point do I deny you priveledges?

 

[Djangodog]

at what point do I deny you priveledges?

My point was that an e-motorbike with superfluous pedals trying to take advantage of the laws and privileges that are there for actual legal e-bikes is wrong. Your needs as a disabled person don’t require an e-bike that is outside the legal classes. I equate the argument to an able person parking in a handicapped space. If they aren’t handicapped, the space is not for their use. If the “e-bike” does not qualify under the law as an e-bike, then it shouldn’t be trying to take advantage of the privileges afforded to e-bikes. That seems self explanatory.

I can relate to the whole waiting for the surgeon’s next move thing. Following a motorcycle accident fourteen years ago, I spent six months in a wheel chair. I always felt bad for people in wheelchairs until I became one of them and realized that at least I was mobile again. The wheelchair felt like a gift. The walker was an upgrade, then crutches and eventually a cane. I had five surgeries in the first ten days and many surgeries and procedures since. I had to have two more spinal surgeries last year. I have been very fortunate and cycling was a big part of my recovery, such as it is. I’ll spare you the details, but I am left with chronic pain and I have lost a lot of mobility and 30 mm of length to my left leg. I am always waiting for the next shoe to drop. My spine was to a point last year where I never got on a bike at all and could barely walk. I have ridden about 2,000 miles so far this year, so it is an improvement. Some days I don’t feel like sticking around at all. That said, I choose not to have a handicapped plate on my “cage” and I push myself every day. I ride a mid drive without a throttle. When I was recovering from the accident, (about three months in), I would go from wheelchair onto a mountain bike and plod along for about 12 miles, three times a week. Fourteen months after the accident, I rode the Prouty Century Ride for cancer research. We are all different and we all have our own cross to bear. I am glad that I was able to push myself hard through the recovery and I understand that some have a situation that doesn’t allow them to pedal. Class 2 bikes are legal. There should probably be an exception made for disabled people regarding access to trails, bike lanes and paths.

The doctors told me that my surviving the accident was probably because I was a cyclist and runner. My recovery revolved around cycling and walking, once I was able enough.

I am not sure why you would “need” a bike that is outside the legal classes. Sharing your reason is up to you.

 

[Cowlitz]

Why is it assumed that those of us who like the bike feel aren't using our bikes for transportation. The first two weeks I had my Gazelle, I had no other vehicle. My pickup broke down bringing the Gazelle home. Then, because the Gazelle was spendy for me, I used it for errands and shopping and still do, 'cept it's a bit icy out there for it now. We have winter.

I bought some snooty panniers that can hold quite a bit of stuff, even my violin. Other than three long trips in my pickup, it has been sitting unused for most of the summer. I made myself drive once a week to keep moving parts moving. Other than that, it was bicycle.

I can't remember what the rear rack weight limit is, but it is a lot. It's very sturdy and made for hauling stuff. Just because a bike looks and rides pretty, does not mean it can't do work. The picture shows the watermelon loaded pannier. I love to eat a good watermelon.

 

[tomjasz]

Class 2 bikes are legal. There should probably be an exception made for disabled people regarding access to trails, bike lanes and paths.

I will ride where I need to ride regardless. I'm betting carrying my handicapped parking placard will save the day, but I think enforcement id still years off. Probably after my dirt nap as slow as it seems to be moving.

I am not sure why you would “need” a bike that is outside the legal classes. Sharing your reason is up to you.

The classes are idiotic. What should I be limited to less than class 3 speeds because I have a throttle? I think high-speed bikes CAN be dangerous but I sure don't need you or anyone else to manage my safe riding. I'm happy with 25MPH and my throttle.

Opinions on the best compromise?..(lightweight small manageable folding ebike)

hi I'm looking for a either a lightweight folder which can be converted to an ebike or a ready made ebike. I'm reasonably technically competent and could probably tackle any maintenance and conversion myself as long as there is no major metalwork involved. I'm not as young as I used to be (ha...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Djangodog]

I will ride where I need to ride regardless. I'm betting carrying my handicapped parking placard will save the day, but I think enforcement id still years off. Probably after my dirt nap as slow as it seems to be moving.

The classes are idiotic. What should I be limited to less than class 3 speeds because I have a throttle? I think high-speed bikes CAN be dangerous but I sure don't need you or anyone else to manage my safe riding. I'm happy with 25MPH and my throttle.

Opinions on the best compromise?..(lightweight small manageable folding ebike)

hi I'm looking for a either a lightweight folder which can be converted to an ebike or a ready made ebike. I'm reasonably technically competent and could probably tackle any maintenance and conversion myself as long as there is no major metalwork involved. I'm not as young as I used to be (ha...

electricbikereview.com

It’s not just about your safety. The classes also protect those that you might mow down at 25 with your throttle. I don’t see anything idiotic about the classes. They seem to make a lot of sense. I suppose that if you don’t like a law that you can call it idiotic, but that doesn’t make it so.

Maybe you think that 20 mph in a school zone is idiotic because as you say, you “sure don't need you or anyone else to manage my safe riding”. Maybe you don’t think speed limits should exist. As banged up and crippled as I am, I hope that I never become so bitter and self entitled as that.

 

[indianajo]

I am not sure why you would “need” a bike that is outside the legal classes. Sharing your reason is up to you.

I need a bike that will carry me + 80 lb supplies up 80 hills on road at ~9 mph. 1000 w 48 v hub motor is now illegal in 40 states. The mac12t harness was burnt by rain 2021. There haven't been any more outside of China. I burnt a 500 w bafang last summer, because it grinds so slowly up the hills even with me pedaling heart rate 144 bpm. I'm back to riding 6 miles on the 3" wide berm of State Route 3, with 55 to 70 mph traffic. I ride frequently on the dirt at 1 mph because many dump trucks & travel trailers won't give me 24". The flatter terrain is the exclusive privilege of motor vehicles.
The load of post 35 caused me to fall off & hit my chin & arms 5 times 2008-2018. Front axle whips sideways on a bump, gravel ridge, stick, tire grabs pavement, the seat rises and over I go. Broke chin 11/2017. I was also knocked off the seat onto my feet by a dog attacking the front wheel. Groceries spilled all over state route 3. I measured the mountiain bike (pacific quantum) with me off it and groceries in basket at 120 lb rear 20 lb front. Glad Cowlitz can keep the handlebars straight with that load. I can't. Stretch frame cargo bike bought 12/2017 puts enough weight on the front axle I can steer it straight and not fall off.
Don't wan't the ***-**** 11 speed rear sprocket necessary to acquire a 48 tooth rear that would actually allow a mid-drive to climb these hills with 330 lb load. Would be changing the light duty chain in mid-summer when I have other work to do.
I need a throttle to whiz across 6 lane + median state route 62 when the traffic light stays red for more than 4 minutes. I cross it twice every trip. 92 lb bike won't trip the car sensor. Also I need throttle when my knee gets injured by twisting it and I can't use it. Alternate ambulance ride is about $500 a trip. Taxis don't pick up out at my summer camp, & cargo bike won't fit in trunk. Wheel chairs can't ride in the ditch along the roads out there, nor will they go 30 miles on a charge.

 

[Djangodog]

I need a bike that will carry me + 80 lb supplies up 80 hills on road at ~9 mph. 1000 w 48 v hub motor is now illegal in 40 states. The mac12t harness was burnt by rain 2021. There haven't been any more outside of China. I burnt a 500 w bafang last summer, because it grinds so slowly up the hills even with me pedaling heart rate 144 bpm. I'm back to riding 6 miles on the 3" wide berm of State Route 3, with 55 to 70 mph traffic. I ride frequently on the dirt at 1 mph because many dump trucks & travel trailers won't give me 24". The flatter terrain is the exclusive privilege of motor vehicles.
The load of post 35 caused me to fall off & hit my chin & arms 5 times 2008-2018. Front axle whips sideways on a bump, gravel ridge, stick, tire grabs pavement, the seat rises and over I go. Broke chin 11/2017. I was also knocked off the seat onto my feet by a dog attacking the front wheel. Groceries spilled all over state route 3. I measured the mountiain bike (pacific quantum) with me off it and groceries in basket at 120 lb rear 20 lb front. Glad Cowlitz can keep the handlebars straight with that load. I can't. Stretch frame cargo bike bought 12/2017 puts enough weight on the front axle I can steer it straight and not fall off.
Don't wan't the ***-**** 11 speed rear sprocket necessary to acquire a 48 tooth rear that would actually allow a mid-drive to climb these hills with 330 lb load. Would be changing the light duty chain in mid-summer when I have other work to do.
I need a throttle to whiz across 6 lane + median state route 62 when the traffic light stays red for more than 4 minutes. I cross it twice every trip. 92 lb bike won't trip the car sensor. Also I need throttle when my knee gets injured by twisting it and I can't use it. Alternate ambulance ride is about $500 a trip. Taxis don't pick up out at my summer camp, & cargo bike won't fit in trunk. Wheel chairs can't ride in the ditch along the roads out there, nor will they go 30 miles on a charge.

Sometimes, an e-bike is not a good solution or fit. It sounds like you need something more substantial.

 

[tomjasz]

It’s not just about your safety. The classes also protect those that you might mow down at 25 with your throttle. I don’t see anything idiotic about the classes. They seem to make a lot of sense. I suppose that if you don’t like a law that you can call it idiotic, but that doesn’t make it so.

Maybe you think that 20 mph in a school zone is idiotic because as you say, you “sure don't need you or anyone else to manage my safe riding”. Maybe you don’t think speed limits should exist. As banged up and crippled as I am, I hope that I never become so bitter and self entitled as that.

You and Mikes are incredibly arrogant to call someone you know nothing about arrogant and self-entitled. It's the pot calling the kettle black from your perceived moral high ground. My cage is capable of 40-50MPH over any maximum limit. We haven't legislated cage engines and classes for cages. It's dumb and it's nanny bullshit. I posted a link to my previous comments. IN FACT I ride like I have a class 1 eBike MOST of the time. But on days crossing town on an empty MUP, I roll out my throttle at 25-28. NO ONE IS ON THE PATH. How am I a danger to you and your nanny state?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I'm afraid that my-way-or-the-highway and I-know-best-you-suck are baked into human nature.

Both are special cases of the whole us-them thing. And anonymity really brings it out. Examples on this forum that go both ways...
o US = cyclists, THEM = drivers
o US = ebikers, THEM = unmotorized riders
o US = mid-drive fanciers, THEM = hub motor fans
o US = throttle fans, THEM = throttle haters

My other hobby is making things that move in interesting ways with LEGO. The same dynamic plays out in AFOL (adult fan of LEGO) forums.

A perennial conflict sure to cause rancor...
o US = purists who wouldn't dream of modifying a LEGO part, THEM = profligrates who don't think twice when all else fails.

And all this over a toy that, like the bicycle, nearly everyone loves! Astounding.

Great insight!
Yes, anonymity really brings it out and the conflict is astounding!