The Experience of a Bicycle

[SC00CHB00CH]

I stay far away from media social engineering.

Tell-a-vision <--- They're telling you their vision.
TV Programming <--- like a PC you're being "programmed"

If you're still arguing left and right you're in the 'programming mind-set'. The 2004 Presidential nominees should have woke most up. It's all a joke on TVs Barney Miller , then it's basically real-life.

 

[m@Robertson]

You make it like electrifying a bicycle is as simple as making a bowl of cheerios.
I'm eye balling a Titanium frame on Craigslist. I'm gonna attempt to make my own ebike. It's a hard tail. The bike path currently under construction is near completion and my routine ride to work will be paved smooth.
Seller has not responded to my inquiries.

Says the frame is made by Lynskey. My ti bike is a Lynskey. Made in Tennessee. Super high quality. Guarantee you that frame retailed for a whole hell of a lot more. I got mine from a guy who bought it and realized it was too big for him. Then when he put it on Ebay, Lynskey picked that time to list all of their frame overstock there. So I was able to get a mighty good deal.

Electrifying it was as simple as eating a bowl of Cheetos.

OK not really... it had an ISCG05 on the front bottom bracket that I had to cut off to get the BBSHD to fit. Same would be true of any mid drive except I think a Cyc X1, which could use it to brace the mounting I think. You'll want to check on that up front or you're going to have a LOT of unexpected work on your hands. Cutting welded titanium cleanly without boofing the heat treat was fun.

 

[PedalUma]

I have had the honor of doing two Lynskey conversions. Beautiful bikes. If the Egyptians made these bikes 3,000 years ago, and left them at the bottom of the sea, they would still be viable for conversion today. These are forever frames. Carbon lasts a decade.

 

[tomjasz]

My thought is to try and think of a forum as a large room where we are all at a party in person.
Act and speak as if you were face to face, or had the open mic and were willing to take whatever reaction there was face to face.

I‘d be booted in a day…

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Inserting a juvenile and unrelated comment about "trimming bushes" is very poor taste and offensive. I say this not because I am "traumatized" by it, but because people so often give a pass to misogyny and sexism that they would not give to racist "jokes" or comments, or to anti-Semitic "jokes" or comments.

One time, a young man I knew complained vehemently about having missed out on a job opportunity, because "They gave it to a chick! A chick!" If we substitute the word "chick" with some other derogatory term like the N word or some term for a Jewish or Asian person, it is very clear that it is just bigotry.

Crap like that really does discourage women from participating in forums like these. And we're not snowflakes or whiners for calling it out. We're just fed up of it already.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I‘d be booted in a day…

It's a choice we make.

 

[Djangodog]

I'm feeling like a dinosaur. I like an ebike that feels like a bicycle. It is responsive, fairly lightweight, and I must pedal. The motor is there because we have hills and I don't like get off my bike to push. It is comfortable to ride for miles and miles. I'm not interested in speed, I'm interested in getting somewhere, but getting some exercise also. I've found the right ebike for me.

This forum seems to be going the other way. Most posts seem to be about faux motorcycles and how fast can it go. I find myself coming to it less and less. There are even posts about scaring pedestrians. This is all fodder for the ebikes are too scary group. All this makes me think that ebikes are going to be very heavily regulated soon. I think I'll be safe with my nerdy Gazelle. You?

I think that this thread has strayed far off course. Above is the op. I hope that we can get back on track.

 

[Djangodog]

Yeah but nobody is fooled by the existence of pedals on something like that. Certainly not an opposing attorney in a liability case. Area 13's latest video shows cops who could easily make the mistake, though. Still, I don't count those light motorcycles with pedals as ebikes. As far as I have seen day to day, they don't exist. With one only recent exception, I saw a guy on one of those little Sur-Rons recently, on the street. But still I don't agree they pose any risk to the ebike public or ebike regulations. Thats like saying a car driving down the street with a parachute and wheelie bars is a threat to the legality of automobiles. A big threat to the wallet of the guy driving that car (which is not illegal everywhere, actually) but thats it.

The Fresno PD interaction in this vid at about 3 minutes in occurs literally in my neighborhood. Surprising as I've never seen FPD on an ebike in that town, ever.

Whats the risk here? People get a ticket. Not ebikes banned. We already have laws on the books for this.

I think that it does affect public opinion which can affect laws and regulations. The average person doesn’t know that a light, e-motorbike isn’t a legal e-bike. The average politician doesn’t either. Oftentimes laws and regulations are written and enacted by the ignorant.

Clowns get attention and can negatively affect public opinion.

One day Albert Einstein wrote on the blackboard:

9 x 1 = 9

9 x 2 = 18

9 x 3 = 27

9 x 4 = 36

9 x 5 = 45

9 x 6 = 54

9 x 7 = 63

9 x 8 = 72

9 x 9 = 81

9x10 = 91

In class they mocked him and made fun of him because he had made a mistake, as the correct answer for 9 x10 is 90.

Albert Einstein waited for everyone to shut up and said: ′′ Despite me answering the first 9 questions correctly, no one congratulated me. Instead, when I got one wrong, everyone started laughing. This means that despite being very successful, society will only notice the smallest mistake and make fun of it. Don't let simple criticism destroy your dreams ".

Another moral of the story is that nobody notices the average rider, but some clown being reckless on an “e-bike”, that they will remember.

 

[Cowlitz]

OK boys, and I mean the boys, not the grownups. I am not traumatized, I am not a victim. I am SICK AND TIRED of living 66 years and guys still don't understand that sexism is unacceptable. I wish I could turn the tables and give you a lesson, but you obviously wouldn't even try to understand. I am sick and tired of it. I was told in my teens that I could not get a higher paying job because only boys could do that work, which I had been doing since age 12. I was hired later in a traditional male field of work and told that I had to be hired, but would not be able to do the work and then they'd be done with hiring women. Not to mention that it was physically easier work than the low paying orchard job I'd had. Then there was the "You ^%$# women, get your fat &^%$ up the hill, etc. Not being listened to--what can a woman know about logging systems> Etc. etc. Wouldn't you think it was time that sexism and racism and whatever else isms came to an end? Huh? And, that post brings up why you might not be too smart if you are in the bicycle business. You are basically insulting half the population--a huge amount of potential customers.

Cancel culture? Just another whine by bullies and in this case, little boys who don't care about others. The online community seems to attract little boys. I don't participate much on line and I think my New Years vow will be to spend very little time on forums. Forums always disappoint me and show how many insensitive people are out there, who don't want to share their comfy world with others.

A typical comment will now be, don't get so emotional. Don't get hysterical. I think I'm going to quit this forum for a while and try to make it permanent. It isn't a healthy place. It isn't worth it.

 

[Djangodog]

OK boys, and I mean the boys, not the grownups. I am not traumatized, I am not a victim. I am SICK AND TIRED of living 66 years and guys still don't understand that sexism is unacceptable. I wish I could turn the tables and give you a lesson, but you obviously wouldn't even try to understand. I am sick and tired of it. I was told in my teens that I could not get a higher paying job because only boys could do that work, which I had been doing since age 12. I was hired later in a traditional male field of work and told that I had to be hired, but would not be able to do the work and then they'd be done with hiring women. Not to mention that it was physically easier work than the low paying orchard job I'd had. Then there was the "You ^%$# women, get your fat &^%$ up the hill, etc. Not being listened to--what can a woman know about logging systems> Etc. etc. Wouldn't you think it was time that sexism and racism and whatever else isms came to an end? Huh? And, that post brings up why you might not be too smart if you are in the bicycle business. You are basically insulting half the population--a huge amount of potential customers.

Cancel culture? Just another whine by bullies and in this case, little boys who don't care about others. The online community seems to attract little boys. I don't participate much on line and I think my New Years vow will be to spend very little time on forums. Forums always disappoint me and show how many insensitive people are out there, who don't want to share their comfy world with others.

A typical comment will now be, don't get so emotional. Don't get hysterical. I think I'm going to quit this forum for a while and try to make it permanent. It isn't a healthy place. It isn't worth it.

I hope that you stick around. The forum needs more people like you, not less. Unfortunately, negativity leaves a lasting impression. The thing that I enjoy most about the forum are the stories and pictures from rides and the legitimate reviews and information. There are good things here. A pastime shouldn’t increase stress, but some people choose to go on a forum to rant and pretend that they are a big fish, (maybe they for a big fish in this small pond, but there are oceans out there and they become insignificant).

 

[tomjasz]

It's a choice we make.

Yes, so I avoid parties with namby-pamby types.

 

[m@Robertson]

Another moral of the story is that nobody notices the average rider, but some clown being reckless on an “e-bike”, that they will remember.

This all sounds reasonable and cautionary, but it doesn't hold true when you put some context to it. Lets make the context motor vehicle regulation: We have all manner of evidence that bozos clown around regularly over the more than 120 years of automobile and motorcycle usage in society. Broadening the context, we even have this evidence for analog bicycles. All it takes to see a cyclist behaving badly is to find a busy bike path and just sit on a bench and watch. At least it does in my neck of the woods where there is a major shared thru-way used by all walks of cycling life as well as pedestrians.

And yet, nobody bans bicycles. Or autos or motorcycles. You would be hard pressed to find increased analog bicycle regulation as well. Instead, the laws on the books are used to punish individuals for their behavior. Additionally, lawyers make money pressing liability claims.

I am sure we could both go on and on citing cases that support each of our viewpoints, but I think the effort would be pointless. This is going to go the way its going to go. I think the ubiquity of ebikes - and we are fast getting to that point here in the USA - is going to render all the hand-wringing moot as a new normal washes over society whether anyone likes it or not: Ebike riders are registered voters and the more voters the less likely a politician will dare to piss them all off. We have already seen the EU walk away from increased regulation and mandatory insurance. If the rules-happy EU rejects regulation there's no hope of it being acceptable here.

EDIT: The TL;DR version... There is one place where the discussion of increasing ebike regulation exists and endless debate rages. One place only. Thats in online ebike discussion groups, populated exclusively by ebike riders. Everywhere else: life simply goes on and nobody notices or, frankly, cares.

 

[indianajo]

A typical comment will now be, don't get so emotional. Don't get hysterical. I think I'm going to quit this forum for a while and try to make it permanent. It isn't a healthy place. It isn't worth it.

It is fairly interesting if you push the ignore button on some posters. I missed the sexist "joke" because I am ignoring the person who also tells scatology "jokes".
Besides reading forums helps me wake up in the morning when I am loggy. Springing out of bed & getting to work right away stopped about age 65.
I'm surprised from your work history that you are female. Not the competence, I worked with many competent females in the US Army. An E6 jumped an armed woman & subdued her; an E5 escorted a E2 guard around our fence who was afraid of coyotes & showed him how to use a M16 as a club. There were 2 mechanics in the motor pool. Most of the clerks in the personnel section drove tractor trailers to the field. An O3 outranked me.
BTW I am male.

 

[PedalUma]

I just finished that bike, every detail including painting the frame bolts to match. Then I went to start it up and nothing. I had to chop connectors to go thru frame. They make the purple wire inside the motor the same color as the brown to the display. That means disassembling the motor. It is not like making a bowl of cereal. I grew up with three older sisters and was constantly put down and corrected. They could do anything a guy can do, unless it was dirty or dangerous, then it would be my job. I was also guilty of past wrongs from before I was born. Instead of sibling reunions, they would have exclusive Sister Gatherings. I am glad that I do not need to be put down and corrected by big sister types ever again and contend with that hypocrisy.

 

[Djangodog]

This all sounds reasonable and cautionary, but it doesn't hold true when you put some context to it. Lets make the context motor vehicle regulation: We have all manner of evidence that bozos clown around regularly over the more than 120 years of automobile and motorcycle usage in society. Broadening the context, we even have this evidence for analog bicycles. All it takes to see a cyclist behaving badly is to find a busy bike path and just sit on a bench and watch. At least it does in my neck of the woods where there is a major shared thru-way used by all walks of cycling life as well as pedestrians.

And yet, nobody bans bicycles. Or autos or motorcycles. You would be hard pressed to find increased analog bicycle regulation as well. Instead, the laws on the books are used to punish individuals for their behavior. Additionally, lawyers make money pressing liability claims.

I am sure we could both go on and on citing cases that support each of our viewpoints, but I think the effort would be pointless. This is going to go the way its going to go. I think the ubiquity of ebikes - and we are fast getting to that point here in the USA - is going to render all the hand-wringing moot as a new normal washes over society whether anyone likes it or not: Ebike riders are registered voters and the more voters the less likely a politician will dare to piss them all off. We have already seen the EU walk away from increased regulation and mandatory insurance. If the rules-happy EU rejects regulation there's no hope of it being acceptable here.

EDIT: The TL;DR version... There is one place where the discussion of increasing ebike regulation exists and endless debate rages. One place only. Thats in online ebike discussion groups, populated exclusively by ebike riders. Everywhere else: life simply goes on and nobody notices or, frankly, cares.

I understand and agree with most of what you say. I think the thing that separates bikes and cars in this regard is that most people use motor vehicles, but most people viewing bikes, and more specifically, e-bikes are on the outside looking in. The numbers are growing, but we are still a very small and for now, insignificant percentage of the voting public.

I’m not saying that the sky is falling or that someone with a little extra in the tank is going to ruin it for all of us. I’m just saying that the yahoo type stands out and leaves an impression on the anti bike, or just bike ignorant crowd.

I hope that you are right. Time will tell. I do have a lot of respect for your experience and opinion. I am a long time cyclist, but this was my first season using assistance. So far, I am really enjoying the help.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Yes, so I avoid parties with namby-pamby types.

 

[PedalUma]

I understand and agree with most of what you say. I think the thing that separates bikes and cars in this regard is that most people use motor vehicles, but most people viewing bikes, and more specifically, e-bikes are on the outside looking in. The numbers are growing, but we are still a very small and for now, insignificant percentage of the voting public.

I’m not saying that the sky is falling or that someone with a little extra in the tank is going to ruin it for all of us. I’m just saying that the yahoo type stands out and leaves an impression on the anti bike, or just bike ignorant crowd.

I hope that you are right. Time will tell. I do have a lot of respect for your experience and opinion. I am a long time cyclist, but this was my first season using assistance. So far, I am really enjoying the help.

A member of our City Counsel rides her 750W class 3 Boda Boda cargo bike everywhere. The County Bike Coalition Director complains that when talking of bike infrastructure many local politicians will not get on bikes to go see. Being on a bike is beneath their status. She says, "How can they even discuss this if they won't get on bikes, so they will know first hand."

 

[PedalUma]

This is why the bike wouldn't start. It is the Black-on-Black problem. You would never have this in aerospace. It is were aesthetics clashes with science. I crimped the black display wire against the black bottom bracket of the motor pancaking the 4 mm wire.

 

[SC00CHB00CH]

OK boys, and I mean the boys, not the grownups. I am not traumatized, I am not a victim. I am SICK AND TIRED of living 66 years and guys still don't understand that sexism is unacceptable. I wish I could turn the tables and give you a lesson, but you obviously wouldn't even try to understand. I am sick and tired of it. I was told in my teens that I could not get a higher paying job because only boys could do that work, which I had been doing since age 12. I was hired later in a traditional male field of work and told that I had to be hired, but would not be able to do the work and then they'd be done with hiring women. Not to mention that it was physically easier work than the low paying orchard job I'd had. Then there was the "You ^%$# women, get your fat &^%$ up the hill, etc. Not being listened to--what can a woman know about logging systems> Etc. etc. Wouldn't you think it was time that sexism and racism and whatever else isms came to an end? Huh? And, that post brings up why you might not be too smart if you are in the bicycle business. You are basically insulting half the population--a huge amount of potential customers.

Cancel culture? Just another whine by bullies and in this case, little boys who don't care about others. The online community seems to attract little boys. I don't participate much on line and I think my New Years vow will be to spend very little time on forums. Forums always disappoint me and show how many insensitive people are out there, who don't want to share their comfy world with others.

A typical comment will now be, don't get so emotional. Don't get hysterical. I think I'm going to quit this forum for a while and try to make it permanent. It isn't a healthy place. It isn't worth it.

I will say as a side note irregardless of gender , the internet forums (which for me started in the mid 90s) , this phenomenon of hiding behind some PC somewhere in the world suddenly gave people freedom to act like utter A$$holes with little regard for someone else's feelings. Normally face to face encounters like this would not happen at all. Like kicking children out of an age restricted bar.There are rules in the real world. Unfortunately online often the wrong people become involved in the conversation with nothing more than a desire to troll and create controversy. They feed off this and love a response.

Imagine if you were in a private club full of adults all conversing over modern topics and all of sudden a bunch of children were let loose into the club knocking over drinks and behaving like spoiled children. This is basically the internet community only we don't have a bouncer at the door. We do have moderators but those only react AFTER the kids were let loose in the bar. Now I see full grown men arguing vehemently over topics and acting like children too.
This thread is kind of evidence of how a topic gets derailed into oblivion. I'm certainly guilty of derailing it myself.

Well so how about those mid-drives?

 

[Djangodog]

@SC00CHB00CH, if you are trying to make things worse, congratulations. That post was amazing and disturbing on many levels.

Edit: Most of the “disturbing“ post was removed, so my post loses context.