Swedish commuter looking for a bike! Moustache / Haibike / R&M

[railtwo]

Hi,

Thank you all for making this a great forum!

Im looking for advice on what bike to buy.


Me:
37 years old in good physical condition.

My commute:
I have a 11 Km (6,8 Miles) x2 commute with three major hills.

I plan on commuting from Mars through October.

Bike alternatives:
I have narrowed down my search to three possible alternatives:

Riese & Müller New Charger GT Touring

Moustache Samedi 27 Xroad 7

Haibike SDURO Trekking 9.0

Questions:
What do you think of these? Which one should i choose and why? Have i missed a better alternative?


I have no problem paying a premium for a good quality bike. The Swedish government also subsidies the purchase of an ebike with 25% or a max amount of 1200 USD.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Nova Haibike]

I have no opinion about which you should choose; I am sure each is up to the task. Just from my own perspective, I always think rightly or wrongly that R&M bikes are too expensive. But if I had money to burn, I would love to have the new Supercharger GX Rohloff HS. The only thing that would make it better is it is magically weighed half the weight. LOL. I like the look of the Moustache. I just bought a different model Haibike, but the 9.0 just looks cheap to me...I don't like the color. LOL.

I usually recommend to people to test ride bikes, because even if they made be similar in specifications, they can feel different because of geometry and fit. I did not follow my own advice. LOL. But I have ridden hundreds of bikes so I kind of know what to expect.

Lastly, I wish I could get a subsidy!!!

 

[e-boy]

Check out the Tapper from Swedish brand Wallerang .
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[railtwo]

I have no opinion about which you should choose; I am sure each is up to the task. Just from my own perspective, I always think rightly or wrongly that R&M bikes are too expensive. But if I had money to burn, I would love to have the new Supercharger GX Rohloff HS. The only thing that would make it better is it is magically weighed half the weight. LOL. I like the look of the Moustache. I just bought a different model Haibike, but the 9.0 just looks cheap to me...I don't like the color. LOL.

I usually recommend to people to test ride bikes, because even if they made be similar in specifications, they can feel different because of geometry and fit. I did not follow my own advice. LOL. But I have ridden hundreds of bikes so I kind of know what to expect.

Lastly, I wish I could get a subsidy!!!

Thank you for your input. I will definitely try to test ride the bikes i listed above as this will be my first ebike.

What Haibike model did you buy?

 

[railtwo]

Wow, nice subsidy! I think I’ll move to Sweden.

I would choose the Sduro 9.0. It has the new intube battery rail with dual battery option... From what I heard you can start off with 500Wh and then upgrade. Ask your dealer!

Good suggestion. The Bosch Powertube on the Haibike is a very attractive solution. I don´t think i will need dual batteries though.

Moustache solution is kind of integrated but not as much.

The subsidy is nice. It has increased the sales of ebikes in Sweden a lot!

 

[railtwo]

Check out the Tapper from Swedish brand Wallerang .
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Thank you for the suggestion! It could be a candidate. I´m not sure about the E8000 motor though.

I couldn't find any detailed specification of the components either.

I will give it a try and add it to my list of bikes to test ride.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I´m not sure about the E8000 motor though.

I couldn't find any detailed specification of the components either.

Shimano E8000 motor is a nice one. Lots of companies are using it.
http://ebike-mtb.com/en/the-best-emtb-motor/

 

[railtwo]

Shimano E8000 motor is a nice one. Lots of companies are using it.
http://ebike-mtb.com/en/the-best-emtb-motor/

I have to read up more on it, I’m still a beginner in this area.

Regarding specifications I was referring to the Wallerang bike. I was a bit unclear.

Do you have any suggestion or input on what bike to choose? R&M, Moustache, Haibike or maybe a Cube?

 

[Over50]

Good suggestion. The Bosch Powertube on the Haibike is a very attractive solution. I don´t think i will need dual batteries though...Moustache solution is kind of integrated but not as much...
The subsidy is nice. It has increased the sales of ebikes in Sweden a lot!

I was going to point out the ability for dual battery as one of the biggest differences in the bikes you listed (New Charger and Haibike Trekking 9.0 will have this and Moustache not). But you mentioned you don't need dual battery.

Your R&M choice was the GT Touring (20 mph in the US) but do you perhaps have an high speed options in Sweden? Because R&M should have a New Charger HS variant with the Bosch speed motor whereas the other two bikes will only have the CX motor option. The CX motor will be great for those hills by the way but you might prefer a higher speed bike.

The suspension forks I believe are all Suntour but different models. The Mobie (Moustache) is new and in one of Court's recent videos I thought he said it was not an air fork (but not positive about this). I don't know if you'll find a lot of info on the varying specs of the forks but it might be something to get an opinion on. Personally I prefer the Suntour fork that came on my Haibike over the Suntour Aion that came on the R&M.

Also the stock tires are different. The R&M and the Haibike are the Schwalbe Super Moto X which are a very stable and reliable tire with more of a road tread. I am commuting on these on my R&M and my Haibike and so far (knock on wood), no flats despite rolling over plenty of broken glass. The Hutchison Pythons on the Moustache are knobbier and might give more light trail capability. I don't know about their puncture protection.

As for the battery integration: The intube design is nice but the Moustache option offers a good blend of integrated design which still allows a lot of flexibility to quickly remove the battery and throw it in a backpack. I take my batteries with me when I lock up at work and a good thing about the external mounted style is that ability to quickly remove. I think Court also said the Powerpack 500 is slightly lighter.

You have a good problem however: 3 great bikes you've included on your list. I think they are all quality with only minor/subtle spec differences. So it will come down to which is the best fit for you and hopefully you'll get to test ride them.

Personally, I am really attracted to the Moustache and if I bought it I might switch the tires to the Super Moto X. I might pass on it however if that suspension fork isn't an air fork. But, if I were purchasing one of these now, I think I'd lean towards the ability to have the dual battery as an option (the R&M or the Haibike). Maybe at some point you might find yourself taking some longer journeys and the ability to piggyback a Powerpack 500 on top of the downtube might come in handy.

 

[railtwo]

I was going to point out the ability for dual battery as one of the biggest differences in the bikes you listed (New Charger and Haibike Trekking 9.0 will have this and Moustache not). But you mentioned you don't need dual battery.

Your R&M choice was the GT Touring (20 mph in the US) but do you perhaps have an high speed options in Sweden? Because R&M should have a New Charger HS variant with the Bosch speed motor whereas the other two bikes will only have the CX motor option. The CX motor will be great for those hills by the way but you might prefer a higher speed bike.

The suspension forks I believe are all Suntour but different models. The Mobie (Moustache) is new and in one of Court's recent videos I thought he said it was not an air fork (but not positive about this). I don't know if you'll find a lot of info on the varying specs of the forks but it might be something to get an opinion on. Personally I prefer the Suntour fork that came on my Haibike over the Suntour Aion that came on the R&M.

Also the stock tires are different. The R&M and the Haibike are the Schwalbe Super Moto X which are a very stable and reliable tire with more of a road tread. I am commuting on these on my R&M and my Haibike and so far (knock on wood), no flats despite rolling over plenty of broken glass. The Hutchison Pythons on the Moustache are knobbier and might give more light trail capability. I don't know about their puncture protection.

As for the battery integration: The intube design is nice but the Moustache option offers a good blend of integrated design which still allows a lot of flexibility to quickly remove the battery and throw it in a backpack. I take my batteries with me when I lock up at work and a good thing about the external mounted style is that ability to quickly remove. I think Court also said the Powerpack 500 is slightly lighter.

You have a good problem however: 3 great bikes you've included on your list. I think they are all quality with only minor/subtle spec differences. So it will come down to which is the best fit for you and hopefully you'll get to test ride them.

Personally, I am really attracted to the Moustache and if I bought it I might switch the tires to the Super Moto X. I might pass on it however if that suspension fork isn't an air fork. But, if I were purchasing one of these now, I think I'd lean towards the ability to have the dual battery as an option (the R&M or the Haibike). Maybe at some point you might find yourself taking some longer journeys and the ability to piggyback a Powerpack 500 on top of the downtube might come in handy.

Thank you very much for your insightfull post. A lot of information to digest.

A high speed pedelec is not an option for me. They are available in Sweden but requires license plate, insurance etc.

I will look into the different forks used by my preferrd bikes.

I definitely have to test ride the bikes to get a feel for them.
I think my final choice comes down to which one has the best overall premium quality feel and best level of component specification.

I have started on a Excel spreadsheet comparing different bikes.

 

[tompat]

A high speed pedelec is not an option for me. They are available in Sweden but requires license plate, insurance etc.

Don't worry about the law. I'm in Sweden too and ordered a Riese & Müller HS bike for my 35 km one way commute. It's scheduled to be delivered in three weeks. I intend to do proper registration and get traffic insurance but not using the license plate. The plate immediately distinguishes it as a s-pedelec/moped and thus makes it impossible to ride on bike lanes/paths.
The rules are ridiculous, just because the bike can do 45 kmph it doesn't mean the cyclist will be going that speed always and everywhere. Of course common sense will apply, ride as you would ride on a normal bike where others may appear. And use the 45 kmph capabilities on empty bike paths and country roads. There is little to no chance that anyone will ever get offended if you use it wisely. If by any miracle the cops would get you, the bike is insured and you'll only be paying fines for not riding with the license plate.

 

[railtwo]

Don't worry about the law. I'm in Sweden too and ordered a Riese & Müller HS bike for my 35 km one way commute. It's scheduled to be delivered in three weeks. I intend to do proper registration and get traffic insurance but not using the license plate. The plate immediately distinguishes it as a s-pedelec/moped and thus makes it impossible to ride on bike lanes/paths.
The rules are ridiculous, just because the bike can do 45 kmph it doesn't mean the cyclist will be going that speed always and everywhere. Of course common sense will apply, ride as you would ride on a normal bike where others may appear. And use the 45 kmph capabilities on empty bike paths and country roads. There is little to no chance that anyone will ever get offended if you use it wisely. If by any miracle the cops would get you, the bike is insured and you'll only be paying fines for not riding with the license plate.

I have not considered that alternative... I dont know if im comfortable with that route though, maybe.

Did you order from Elovelo.se?

Today im going to the Swedish Bike Show to look at some bikes and hopefully get closer to a decision!

 

[tompat]

I have not considered that alternative... I dont know if im comfortable with that route though, maybe.
Did you order from Elovelo.se?
Today im going to the Swedish Bike Show to look at some bikes and hopefully get closer to a decision!

Have fun at the Bike Show! I attended the Copenhagen Bike Show last weekend and it was awesome. Several R&M bikes there through a local dealer. Hope they have some in Stockholm too.

Since you have only 11 km to travel I would not bother with a HS model anyway. The time difference is probably neglible. I've got 35 km so that makes it another story.

No I did not use elovelo.se's services, I bought the bike from a dealer in southern Sweden.

 

[tompat]

Today im going to the Swedish Bike Show to look at some bikes and hopefully get closer to a decision!

Did you get any wiser at the Swedish Bike Show?

 

[Bergman]

Hello fellow Swedes!
So im in the same position as you are. Been researching for over a year now.
Me and my spouse have moved from the city to the more rural forests of Närke and we want to go more sustainable.
To replace the diselvan as much as possible is our goal.

I've been reading everything and watched so many reviews from different manufacturers and i can't really decide.

So this Saturday we went and bought a rawbike from "blocket" for 12k SEK. It's a class II moped, 750w, 48v 15.4 Ah. 25km/h topspeed but i unlocked it to 35km/h. It's for my spouse so she can go to the bus and home.
We have a hill that is 3.5km long and has an elevation of 150m. I have to take that one home after working 12h nightshift.

For myself i cant decide what to buy. I'd like an electric ATV but there is only kidsized ones available.

The models i have researched so far:
Haibike trekking 7.5 or 4.0 (dual battery)
R&M - all of them, but supercomuter with 2x500w is the one i think.
Bulls Evo street http://www.pro-e-bike.se/sv/elcyklar-emtb-ebike/marken/bulls-six50-evo-street.html
Scott Sub Tour 10
Butcher and bicycles cargobike

Maybe:
Radrhino fatbike 750w - the Eu model is not updated with the larger battery yet according to their website.


My requirements are Bosch CX and 500wh battery. I'd like a dual battery setup since i have 25km to the city and i want to make sure i can go home at max assist and speed if i need.
And yes i will buy a dongle for it if i get one.

I think there is not much that differs between these models. Motor and battery is key. The rest i "meh".

But then there is the Super soco moped with 2kw and 29Ah battery for 32k SEK with option for another battery.
With the new EU rules there is the speed bikes too. Elcykelguiden.se had an article about it and they mentioned this site:
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

2kw, 60v 18Ah and topspeed 60km/h for 23k and possible less if you are chosen as a testpilot. I sent an email yesterday.
I like fatbikes and have an Kona Wozo fatbike as my current MTB.

E-Bike or Moped or something in between... That is the question.

 

[railtwo]

Did you get any wiser at the Swedish Bike Show?

The Swedish Bike Show in Stockholm this weekend wasnt much to write home about.

It was the big swedish retailers showing off their bikes and only some ebikes from standard brands like Scott, Merida, ecoRide, Wallerang, Crescent, Monark etc.

No smaller retailer with any for me more exciting and interesting brands where there like Bulls, R&M, Haibike, Stromer, Cube or Moustache.

I will go to Elovelo (ebike store in Stockholm) this week and test ride and compare R&M and Moustache.

The search continues!

 

[Nova Haibike]

Hello fellow Swedes!
So im in the same position as you are. Been researching for over a year now.

I've been reading everything and watched so many reviews from different manufacturers and i can't really decide.

Too much research leads to inaction. You'll never learn what is good, bad, or irrelevant through reading and watching alone. At some point you just need to jump in. So if you haven't already, go to a shop and ride the ones you're interested in...and don't keep waiting to buy the "perfect" bike, because it does not exist.

 

[railtwo]

Hello fellow Swedes!
So im in the same position as you are. Been researching for over a year now.
Me and my spouse have moved from the city to the more rural forests of Närke and we want to go more sustainable.
To replace the diselvan as much as possible is our goal.

I've been reading everything and watched so many reviews from different manufacturers and i can't really decide.

So this Saturday we went and bought a rawbike from "blocket" for 12k SEK. It's a class II moped, 750w, 48v 15.4 Ah. 25km/h topspeed but i unlocked it to 35km/h. It's for my spouse so she can go to the bus and home.
We have a hill that is 3.5km long and has an elevation of 150m. I have to take that one home after working 12h nightshift.

For myself i cant decide what to buy. I'd like an electric ATV but there is only kidsized ones available.

The models i have researched so far:
Haibike trekking 7.5 or 4.0 (dual battery)
R&M - all of them, but supercomuter with 2x500w is the one i think.
Bulls Evo street http://www.pro-e-bike.se/sv/elcyklar-emtb-ebike/marken/bulls-six50-evo-street.html
Scott Sub Tour 10
Butcher and bicycles cargobike

Maybe:
Radrhino fatbike 750w - the Eu model is not updated with the larger battery yet according to their website.


My requirements are Bosch CX and 500wh battery. I'd like a dual battery setup since i have 25km to the city and i want to make sure i can go home at max assist and speed if i need.
And yes i will buy a dongle for it if i get one.

I think there is not much that differs between these models. Motor and battery is key. The rest i "meh".

But then there is the Super soco moped with 2kw and 29Ah battery for 32k SEK with option for another battery.
With the new EU rules there is the speed bikes too. Elcykelguiden.se had an article about it and they mentioned this site:
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

2kw, 60v 18Ah and topspeed 60km/h for 23k and possible less if you are chosen as a testpilot. I sent an email yesterday.
I like fatbikes and have an Kona Wozo fatbike as my current MTB.

E-Bike or Moped or something in between... That is the question.

Nice with some fellow swedes here! The ebike sales in Sweden has really increased alot since the government subsidy was introduced.

I would check out pro-e-bike.se on the site allabolag.se before deciding to buy from them. The economic numbers doesnt look that good.

Have you got any response from Sunstorm? I might stop by their shop (Batteridoktorn) and check it out.

 

[Bergman]

Too much research leads to inaction. You'll never learn what is good, bad, or irrelevant through reading and watching alone. At some point you just need to jump in. So if you haven't already, go to a shop and ride the ones you're interested in...and don't keep waiting to buy the "perfect" bike, because it does not exist.

Yes! But i also really enjoy the research. The nerd in me loves it!

Nice with some fellow swedes here! The ebike sales in Sweden has really increased alot since the government subsidy was introduced.

I would check out pro-e-bike.se on the site allabolag.se before deciding to buy from them. The economic numbers doesnt look that good.

Have you got any response from Sunstorm? I might stop by their shop (Batteridoktorn) and check it out.

I linked pro-e-bike because elcykelguiden have done that, dunno if that makes it legit or not.

No answer from Sunstorm yet! Im really interested in the B2 model. If you stop by and get a hold of him i'd like to know whats up.

 

[tompat]

I would check out pro-e-bike.se on the site allabolag.se before deciding to buy from them.

To me it appears this company is an older consultant company now taken over by a younger family member trying to open up an e-bike business. They do not have a showroom, warehouse or service shop. The bikes are ordered from Germany as you order them from pro-e-bike. As a consumer you'd probably be better off ordering the bike you want directly from Germany. I don't want to discourage from using new startups, but the bikes are expensive and this company just doesn't ooze security, yet. For now they only have a web shop, nothing else. And anyone can open up a webshop for almost nothing.