SURLY KRAMPUS 29+ BBS02 750W Nuvinci N360 Project Rationale

[Go-Coo]

Hi guys!

Beware: If you are under 35+ or prefer weight weenie speed machines running on tarmac read no further.

If you are 35+ and love to go where you imagine no one has ever went b4 then read on:

Why (Semi-) Fat?
I just hate to get stuck in the muck!
So I've been eyeing fatbikes since good ol'Sheldon Brown posted about the Pugsley but shunned the cost and the building of offset wheels. Later the Moonlander's frame set came up which was an even bigger bang for the buck but I was still short of liquid cash. All the while my off-road mileage on my 2-speed Winora MTB began to decline and decline...

Why Surly Krampus?
I would have contented with a Gravity 2015 Deadeye (Monster or not) like Karl's but there was no way of getting one from Germany. Putting down 500,- for a 100mm BB conversion kit seemed a bit dear to me, just as much as a whole BBS02 kit or a battery! So I considered the fat 73mm BB options:
Answer: 29+ instead of 26-FAT = The Krampus!
The pics on the web were the hottest bike porn I've enjoyed for ages... it so got me drooling.
Just google for yourself...

Why E-Bike?
1st: I'm built 1969.
2ndly I recently have come across a print article on E-Fats.
More specifically the Klaxon Nelson (Japanese SunStar Middrive 3!!!-Speed ;(

Why BaFang (Endless Fun) 02?
I guess it was on electricbike.com where the BBS02 scored supreme.
BIG DIY factor!
750W available (which are how many horse powers? 1/4?) !

So how far have I come yet?
The Krampus frame sits upside-down next to my bed (got thrown out of the kitchen).
Got 80% of the vital parts. Have already spent a month's income. Waiting for spokes of the right length to build the wheels (DHL went on strike here today - you guys sure deserve better pay and proper work conditions but please forward my spokes, OK?). Got the right disc break adapters for the front today.

Yesterday a 6 or 7 year old girl working soapstone for hours has taught me the right attitude:
"The longer you work on it the longer you can look forward how great it's gonna be when it's completed!"

Still a couple of issues to solve:

• Cockpit design
• Tektro Dorado to BBS02 interface connection
• Nuvinci N360 harmony to manual conversion
• Building the wheels
• Finding the just right gain ratio
• Putting it all together
• Optimize it
• Pimp it
• Last not least share it with the community here.

Now please:

• If you want to nag or pester me et al. with legal considerations or that you don't like the color of the frame of what not - please keep it to yourself, Thanks!

• If I got you curious about my project and you like to read more on my learning curve here pls.
  hit the LIKE button...
  Then I'll keep on posting (my benchmark are 10 likes OK?

We are the good guys. Let's be kind and supportive to each other.
We share a common love and enthusiasm, let's inspire one another!

Links:

crankpuller @ Prarie View Jewel Pass: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/surly-krampus-802452-103-print.html

2009 Sheldon Brown (or HC) on The Pugs: http://web.archive.org/web/20091005014740/http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-pugsley/

Klaxon Nelson E-Fat: http://www.mountainbike-magazin.de/...siertes-stahl-fatbike-fuer-2015.1232386.2.htm

Deadeye shop: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-deadeye-ss-3inch.htm

Karl Gesslein E-Fat Blog: https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/

100mm BB conversion kits shop: http://www.lectriccycles.comor http://california-ebike.com or one below US$ 175.- (need to do some welding though) http://www.fatbike-motor.com/bbs.htm

Krampus @ Moosecycles: http://moosecycles.com

BBS02 shop @ hallomotor: http://www.ebay.com

 

[Go-Coo]

Hi guys,

slowly getting somewhere though I'm still playing the waiting game... I ordered the battery a week ago ;(

2nd preliminary setup to check ergonomics and the ride feel (only a few circles around the house).

Well, it feels ... hefty! Sure asks for some extra power.



So long,

Go-Coo

 

[stevenast]

Hi guys!

Beware: If you are under 35+ or prefer weight weenie speed machines running on tarmac read no further.

If you are 35+ and love to go where you imagine no one has ever went b4 then read on:

Why (Semi-) Fat?
I just hate to get stuck in the muck!
So I've been eyeing fatbikes since good ol'Sheldon Brown posted about the Pugsley but shunned the cost and the building of offset wheels. Later the Moonlander's frame set came up which was an even bigger bang for the buck but I was still short of liquid cash. All the while my off-road mileage on my 2-speed Winora MTB began to decline and decline...

Why Surly Krampus?
I would have contented with a Gravity 2015 Deadeye (Monster or not) like Karl's but there was no way of getting one from Germany. Putting down 500,- for a 100mm BB conversion kit seemed a bit dear to me, just as much as a whole BBS02 kit or a battery! So I considered the fat 73mm BB options:
Answer: 29+ instead of 26-FAT = The Krampus!
The pics on the web were the hottest bike porn I've enjoyed for ages... it so got me drooling.
Just google for yourself...

Why E-Bike?
1st: I'm built 1969.
2ndly I recently have come across a print article on E-Fats.
More specifically the Klaxon Nelson (Japanese SunStar Middrive 3!!!-Speed ;(

Why BaFang (Endless Fun) 02?
I guess it was on electricbike.com where the BBS02 scored supreme.
BIG DIY factor!
750W available (which are how many horse powers? 1/4?) !

So how far have I come yet?
The Krampus frame sits upside-down next to my bed (got thrown out of the kitchen).
Got 80% of the vital parts. Have already spent a month's income. Waiting for spokes of the right length to build the wheels (DHL went on strike here today - you guys sure deserve better pay and proper work conditions but please forward my spokes, OK?). Got the right disc break adapters for the front today.

Yesterday a 6 or 7 year old girl working soapstone for hours has taught me the right attitude:
"The longer you work on it the longer you can look forward how great it's gonna be when it's completed!"

Still a couple of issues to solve:

• Cockpit design
• Tektro Dorado to BBS02 interface connection
• Nuvinci N360 harmony to manual conversion
• Building the wheels
• Finding the just right gain ratio
• Putting it all together
• Optimize it
• Pimp it
• Last not least share it with the community here.

Now please:

• If you want to nag or pester me et al. with legal considerations or that you don't like the color of the frame of what not - please keep it to yourself, Thanks!

• If I got you curious about my project and you like to read more on my learning curve here pls.
  hit the LIKE button...
  Then I'll keep on posting (my benchmark are 10 likes OK?

We are the good guys. Let's be kind and supportive to each other.
We share a common love and enthusiasm, let's inspire one another!

Links:

crankpuller @ Prarie View Jewel Pass: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/surly-krampus-802452-103-print.html

2009 Sheldon Brown (or HC) on The Pugs: http://web.archive.org/web/20091005014740/http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-pugsley/

Klaxon Nelson E-Fat: http://www.mountainbike-magazin.de/...siertes-stahl-fatbike-fuer-2015.1232386.2.htm

Deadeye shop: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-deadeye-ss-3inch.htm

Karl Gesslein E-Fat Blog: https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/

100mm BB conversion kits shop: http://www.lectriccycles.comor http://california-ebike.com or one below US$ 175.- (need to do some welding though) http://www.fatbike-motor.com/bbs.htm

Krampus @ Moosecycles: http://moosecycles.com

BBS02 shop @ hallomotor: http://www.ebay.com

Saw the link to the Gravity Deadeye, what do you think of this bike?

 

[Go-Coo]

Hi Steve,

well, I tried in vain to get one shipped to Europe but no chance from outside the US

It was my 1st choice for a 1st E-Fat conversion project (73mm BB and 135mm rear axle) and it looked decent enough and Karl Gesslein has so much (well documented) fun with it.
https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...ries-not-included/comment-page-1/#comment-421

I'm not regretting getting a Krampus instead but it sure ramped up the cost of the project a lot and the overall weight probably, too.

So, what do you think?

Cheers,
Go-Coo

 

[Go-Coo]

Hi!

Short progress report:

• it now shifts
• it breaks
• it's waiting for the battery...

 

[Go-Coo]

Yippie! The bike is ready and rolling!

Sat 27.6.15

Yesterday the 40-42mm hook-wrench to fasten the locknut of the motoraxle to the BB finally arrived and with it an alcedoitalia 42T chainwheel, a somewhat fitting chainglider and a USB programming cable. So I mounted and connected the battery and motor with the new chainwheel, connected the Tektro Dorado brakes to the BaFang cables and ground a slot in the chainspanner to fit the non-turn washer on the drive side, too. This morning I went the maiden voyage, a trip of 25 km.



The programming of the controller was the standard set up it got shipped with. The 3 levels allow about 15, 20 and 25 km/h max. speed (wheel diameter still set to 26'). However the speed meter seems to be wildly inaccurate at times, especially when applying the throttle. In those instances the display indicated speeds of 9-18 km/h while I was definately at about 25+. The extra momentum kicking in the PA modes took me to get used to a bit. At level 1 the throttle tops at about 15 km/h while at level 2 and 3 max. speeds of 25 and 35 km/h are available. My first thought was that I’d rather tune down the power but as going at high speed is somewhat addictive I’ll drive and see. However I’ll probably fiddle with the programming in the near future, for sure allowing the throttle a bit more boost at PA level 1.

The motor got quite warm after 15-20 mins of max throttle at level 3 with little to no extra input on my behalf, so it seems wise to limit the extend of going so fast or to keep a good eye on the temperature.
The displays battery meter showed less capacity the more current I drew but recuperated to 2 and 3 bars when pedalling more myself at lower speed. I estimate the 48V 10Ah battery might give me a range of 60-80 km. After riding 25 km the meter shows 3 bars now.


The NuVinci 360 with 42 teeth in the front and 21 back seems like a perfect match to the 750W motor. Adjusting the gain ratio to allow for either a good cadence and/or a proper range for the motor work in an acceptable RPM range even at slow speeds. On a bit more technical stretches of a single trail level 1 works OK, with short steep patches easily overcome by either ½ a turn of the cranks or simply applying the throttle. The range of the NuVinci seems to be OK to me, suitable for both speed up to 35 km/h on the road as well as managing steep ascends.


The 3inch semi-fat Knard tires were very confidence inspiring so far with good float and traction on loose sand. In the front I missed a suspension fork on a stretch which consisted of nothing but potholes but in the rear the Cane Creek LT did a fine job smoothing out the jolts. The Krampus build, albeit pretty heavy with about 23 kg is astonishing balanced bike and handles well, probably also due to the 740mm wide handlebars mounted. It might not be the ultimate off-road bike, but it works for me.

My overall verdict so far: It's funfunfunfunfunfunfunfun!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Great build @Go-Coo. Very elegant looking as well.
With a triangle battery (50V, 19Ah), there is really no limit to the distance you can go.

Can you share the details of how you connected the Dorado cut-off levers to Bafang controller?
I know you can get a generic brake sensor that you can attach it underneath but interested in knowing what you did.

 

[Tara D.]

Looks fantastic! Glad you are having fun with it, I think it would be really cool to convert one of my bikes!

 

[Go-Coo]

Connecting the Dorado cut-off levers to Bafang controller:

The BaFang cable has 3 phases (black/blue/red) the Dorado only 2 (black/dotted line).

Matt has already figured out which to connect and shared (1/2) the truth here: http://www.empoweredcycles.com/coll...n-bafang-bbs02-brake-sensor-cable-for-ebrakes

So I left the red one alone, took my 50% chance and connected black to black and blue to the dotted one.



Soldersolder and shrinkshrink, ready

 

[Spotty dog]

A nice looking build Go-Coo glad ur enjoying the BBS 02/ Nu Vinchi combo they work so nicely together, I run my controller on the 9 step power setting, It gives finer control and use of the motors power.
How do u find your chain glider is it noisy I can't decide if I want to fit one if it's constantly chuffing away against the chain.

 

[Go-Coo]

Hi Spotty,

I've ramped up to 5 levels which is OK for me.
The BBS02 - NuVinci are really a match made in heaven

I had to shave about 1-2 mm of the lateral inner diameter of the chainglider to fit it on the 42T chainwheel.
No chuffing noise it really just glides so far. Might be different with lot's of sand / grime on the chain but not likely with your standard of maintenance.

BTW: I have not much use for the Harmony controller. Wanna trade?

Cheers, Go-Coo

 

[sal]

Hi Spotty,

I've ramped up to 5 levels which is OK for me.
The BBS02 - NuVinci are really a match made in heaven

I had to shave about 1-2 mm of the lateral inner diameter of the chainglider to fit it on the 42T chainwheel.
No chuffing noise it really just glides so far. Might be different with lot's of sand / grime on the chain but not likely with your standard of maintenance.

BTW: I have not much use for the Harmony controller. Wanna trade?

Cheers, Go-Coo

I am a beginner, looking to buy first bike. I might buy HPC Explorer or Freedom bike. Nu vinci is great, but HPC only offers more expensive Rohloff gears. I hope it works as well BBSO2 Nu Vinci match u like... hi-powercycles.com

 

[Spotty dog]

Hi Spotty,

I've ramped up to 5 levels which is OK for me.
The BBS02 - NuVinci are really a match made in heaven

I had to shave about 1-2 mm of the lateral inner diameter of the chainglider to fit it on the 42T chainwheel.
No chuffing noise it really just glides so far. Might be different with lot's of sand / grime on the chain but not likely with your standard of maintenance.

BTW: I have not much use for the Harmony controller. Wanna trade?

Cheers, Go-Coo

 

[Spotty dog]

Hi Go-Coo,
That sounds promising I may get a chain glider before winter sets in.
Been very indulgent am setting bike up with dynamo lighting system, and have upgraded brakes with ice tech pads and rotas the front now 203mm up from 180mm fantastic stopping power wet or dry.
So will pass on offer of harmony shifter system, I love how it works tho would still recommend it but it does require removal of derailleur hanger to fit. Did feel a tad bad grinding bits off the frame on both my bikes. Happy riding your build looks great.

 

[RoyL]

@Go-Coo

It was my intentions to switch to the NuVinci too but looking at your chain tensioner at the drop-outs i can`t see how i can do this. How would i tension the chain, can`t pull the hub back.
My drop-outs go straight down, yours straight back - any suggestions?

 

[Go-Coo]

Hi RoyL,

No big deal actually. You would only need a chain tensioner.

 

[Go-Coo]

... like this one here:

a surly singleator