Sudden noise and pedal play from Bosch engine--thoughts?

[DanRichman]

EDITED Nov. 3, 2018: I've kept this post up, rather than deleting it, because the substantive issues it addresses might be of help. But as to my conclusions about who is more reliable for which kind of fix, kindly disregard. There have been too many fixes that didn't really fix, and too many fixes from one shop ostensibly needing fixes from another, that I can't say anymore who is most competent to fix what. I apologize for the confusion. When it comes to service in Seattle, you're on your own!

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered.

After a mere 800 miles, my Bosch Performance Speed engine (on a 2018 Supercharger GX Rohloff HS) has suddenly developed a number of bizarre noises. I'd describe them as faint grinding, crackling sounds.

And there is more play in the pedals than before. There's a looseness detectable when I'm coasting and I alternate slight backpedal and forward-pedal, and there's more pedal travel required before I'm propelled forward.

This began happening after (though of course not necessarily because) a mechanic put too much tension on the belt -- about 65 lbs., vs. the maximum permissible 45 (or thereabouts--can't remember this second). I rode for about 75 miles, sometimes hard and fast, before I discovered and corrected the situation.

Clearly there is something wrong. I am dreading a diagnosis, because I fear it's a problem with one or more bearings. There's no looseness in the crank bolts.

Thoughts? It's OK; I can take it.

(I also posted this to the Bosch sub-forum.)

 

[Alaskan]

Dan, If it does turn out to be bearings that need replacement this site in the UK will be invaluable. I picked up a set of spare bearings from them just in case. I haven't had to use them yet. They also have very good instructional videos on the whole bearing replacement process. https://www.performancelinebearings.com/

Was it Aaron who over tightened the belt drive? I have an appointment with him on Wednesday to service the Rohloff hub in my Homage HS (with chain and tensioner).

 

[DanRichman]

Yes, it was Aaron.

This morning I dropped the bike off at what the Bosch site says is its only certified service center in Seattle: Seattle Electric Bike, at 8318 8th Ave. NW (877-580-8094). I am waiting to hear back from the mechanic, Eric.

I rode the bike for about 100 miles, hard and fast, with the belt tensioned by Aaron to what I learned only yesterday was roughly twice the permitted maximum -- about 70 or 75 lbs, per the "cricket" gauge. (Getting an exact reading with that thing is tough.) I didn't bother to check the tension after he did his (good) work on my shifter and did the periodic service on my Rohloff hub. I watched him use both the cricket and a longer gauge, which he called a "professional" instrument. I presumed he had tensioned it correctly, and I think that's a reasonable presumption..

When I hear back from Eric, I expect to learn what the problem is, and possibly what caused it. I'm not going to libel Aaron here -- though truth is an absolute defense to libel. I'm just going to say I think it's likely the excessive tension played a part in causing this problem. I would love to be proven wrong.

Alaskan, will you have time Wednesday morning to meet up? That's the only time I have that day. 360-949-3234.

 

[DanRichman]

UPDATE (later the same day):

Phew! The problem was easily solved, though not inexpensively.

Eric found that the damping film on the engine had worn through. He replaced that film with slightly thicker, more resilient material. Sure enough -- no more noise.

He said:

-No one who had had this repair done had returned to say it was no longer working (since he began there, in February).
-This had nothing to do with belt tension.
-This often happens with new bikes and results from a poor choice of materials by Bosch.
-The shop warranties its work -- if the problem recurs, it will be fixed again at no charge until it's . . . fixed.
-As to play in the cranks, and the sound that makes, both are normal.

Seattle Electric Bike (hereafter, SEB) charges customers a $115 one-time fee if they didn't buy their bike there (which I didn't). The repair took one hour of shop time ($75). So the total damage, with tax, was $209.19. Not cheap, but a price I'm happy to pay to get expert help.

From this point on, SEB will be my shop for Bosch matters. Aaron, at Aaron's Bicycle Repair, will be my go-to mechanic for all things Rohloff (though I'll recheck belt tension).

Hope this helps others.

 

[Alaskan]

Good to learn it was fixable with one service visit. I have an 11am Rohloff service set with Aaron on Wednesday and a 4 pm engagement on Lake Union. Looks like we'll have to find a better day to ride.

 

[Alaskan]

I presume you bought your bike from G & O Family Cyclery. Did they explain why are they not Bosch certified if they are a Riese & Muller dealer?

 

[DanRichman]

I didn't ask.

For one thing, G&O is closed Mondays and Tuesdays. This happened Sunday, and I wanted the bike seen as soon as possible, because I enjoy riding it every day. I like that SEB is open seven days.

For another, if G&O is not certified, then it's not certified. I'm not all that interested in why.

I love the G&O folks and will always bring my bike there for most matters. But as to the big stuff -- well, it's like health care. You go to the very best clinicians you can find (and afford).

 

[Alaskan]

I stopped by G&O yesterday and spoke with them. They are definitely Bosch certified and could have handled your issue. They even had the damping film in stock. Also, the retail side is closed on Monday and Tuesday but they are usually at work back in the repair shop and would let you in if you knocked on the front door. I think there must be some sort of convention for bike shops to be closed on Tuesdays. Half of the bike shops here in town are closed on Tuesday.

Not sure which search you used but this one will show you the full list https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/dealer-search/

 

[tallpaul]

UPDATE (later the same day):

Phew! The problem was easily solved, though not inexpensively.

Eric found that the damping film on the engine had worn through. He replaced that film with slightly thicker, more resilient material. Sure enough -- no more noise.

He said:

-No one who had had this repair done had returned to say it was no longer working (since he began there, in February).
-This had nothing to do with belt tension.
-This often happens with new bikes and results from a poor choice of materials by Bosch.
-The shop warranties its work -- if the problem recurs, it will be fixed again at no charge until it's . . . fixed.
-As to play in the cranks, and the sound that makes, both are normal.

Seattle Electric Bike (hereafter, SEB) charges customers a $115 one-time fee if they didn't buy their bike there (which I didn't). The repair took one hour of shop time ($75). So the total damage, with tax, was $209.19. Not cheap, but a price I'm happy to pay to get expert help.

From this point on, SEB will be my shop for Bosch matters. Aaron, at Aaron's Bicycle Repair, will be my go-to mechanic for all things Rohloff (though I'll recheck belt tension).

Hope this helps others.

Shouldn't your repairs been covered by the Bosch warranty, which if I recall is 2 years?

 

[Dionigi]

Shouldn't your repairs been covered by the Bosch warranty, which if I recall is 2 years?

I had the same thought, the warranty should be good at all Bosch authorized dealers. If not wait 2 days and ha e it serviced at the place you bought the bike.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

-This had nothing to do with belt tension.
-This often happens with new bikes and results from a poor choice of materials by Bosch.
-The shop warranties its work -- if the problem recurs, it will be fixed again at no charge until it's . . . fixed.

The damping film is a $4 item.
https://www.ridewill.it/p/en/bosch-1270014033-damping-adhesive-films-2-pieces/159329/

It is quite amusing that such a small item can result in a such bizarre noises and pedal play. Is this a one-off thing? I hope so.
$210 to fix a $4 item, ouch!!