Sub 2500 EUR for commuting and fun in a hilly area in Europe (Ireland)

[Ebikist]

Hi everyone.
I have decided to get my first ebike.
Have checked this great forum, but most of "advice threads" cover brands that are imposible to get in Europe. Therefore decided to try my luck with a separate thread.
Would appreciate any advice. Tried to make it structured for easy reading.

Purpose: commuting to work (around 7km oneway with most of the time going uphill, need to be fresh for work) + fun time for weekends (love going easy hilly trails around the city).

Criteria:
- price: 1500-2500 EUR (1500 is ideal as there is a tax incentive of up to 1500 here, but I am ready to add some)
- at liest front suspention (I undestand that it might not be super needed for my scenarios, but I just cant stand a bike without any susp. Full would be great, but I understand that it will definitely be out of my league).
- at liest 27" wheels (even though I am not very high - 176cm - on a 26" I feel like a giant. Can look at 26" only if it is just best.
- no road/ cx bike - dont like leaning forward position + it will not be safe here as I need to pay more attention for the road.
- absolutely NO to fat tyres.
- I have absolutely no peference about the motor position (rear/ mid) or sensor type as I dont quite understand the difference. ATM I use some entry level hardtail and happy with it. The only thing I need is some power for that hill. DIY is not an option as I can use a tax incentive and for it the bike must be new and ready.

I tried to check the market and that is what I found:

Option one:
Some well-known brand with "so-so" setup
Giant roam E+ (2550 EUR) (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/roam-eplus-electric-bike) - roam series fits my demands quite well, but is it worth paying 2500EUR for 50nm torque + alivio? It is top end of my comfort zone and it is hard to get over it.
Some CUBE models (2400-2600 EUR with practically the same setup as the Giant)

Option two:
Some "noname" with relatively good setup.
Tried to find any good shop in europe and the only google result was some shop with the bikes from brands I have never heard of. Below are some options from the shop:
LEADER FOX Sandy (1500 EUR: Bafang REAR motor) (https://greatebike.eu/leader-fox-sandy-2021)
CRUSSIS e-Cross 7.6 (1676 EUR; Bafand M400, close to 7,7 just a little bit smaller battery) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-e-cross-7-6)
CRUSSIS e-Gordo 7.7 (1800 EUR; Bafang M400) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-e-gordo-7-7)
LEADER FOX Awalon 29" (2100 EUR; Bafang M420) (https://greatebike.eu/leader-fox-awalon-29-2021)

Some additional "strange" options (either the unknown engine or expensive but noname)
CRUSSIS OLI Atland 8.6-S (2036EUR; OLI engine) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-oli-atland-8-6-s)
LOVELEC Sargo (1880 EUR; DAPU motor) (https://greatebike.eu/lovelec-sargo)
4EVER ESWORD SPORT (2400 EUR; Bafang M500) (https://greatebike.eu/4ever-esword-sport)

Option three:
Some trustworthy brand which will satisfy my needs. Would be great if someone could share the examples.

Option four:
Get over the fact that this idea is stupid and just buy Giant Roam 1 and try going super slow uphill to stay fresh


I have tried searching local brands, but most of them make either super small foldable bikes or are expensive (4k+).
I undestand that my request might be a bit too much, but I hope there is a chance for a great deal.

 

[indianajo]

The difference between control methods is great. Torque sensing bikes make you feel like you are stronger than you really are. But you feel like you are riding a bike. Pedal assist bikes kick in strongly to a fixed speed 2/3 turn after you start pedaling. You get to pick the speed, from a range of 3 to up to 7 speeds, with a handlebar control. You have to turn pedal assist off if turning around, negotiating tricky obstacles, or if you wind the pedal backwards to get a good start up a hill. My PAS hit me in the back of the shin enough times I deleted it, and use throttle only. You won't have that option in Europe.
50 nm torque might be adequate if you don't weigh a lot and the hills are not too steep. You won't get a lot of help out of the rear sprocket on the Roam E+. They don't specify in their website, but looks to be about a 32 or 28 tooth lowest sprocket. Maybe 1:1 or 1:1.2 is as low as you can go to help the motor with your feet. Some pricier bikes, especially mountain bikes, have 36 or 42 tooth rear sprockets that do multiply torque.
Mid drives can have smoother torque control and fancier displays. They chew up chains 1 1/2 to 3 times as fast as hub drive bikes. Faster trips eat chains faster. With a 14 km round trip, or ~ 3000 km/year, at 15 km/hr you might get a year and a half or 3 years out of a chain. Not as much as a problem as 30 km a day users. WIth a hub motor & 8 speed chain, I get 13000 km out of a chain, oiling it every 2 weeks. (I never clean it). 9,10,11 or 12 speed chains get 2/3 or 1/2 the life of 7 or 8 speed chains. Again the giant website didn't say.
I have a geared hub drive on my bike, and I wore out the gears in my $221 no-name motor in ~4500 miles. Took me 2 afternoons to change over to another motor, mostly because the controller was different and I had to make a new mount for it. Also the axle size was different and I had to modify the torque arm. So maybe you would get 3-5 years out of a no-name geared hub motor at your use level? The bigger cost than the motor is replacing the battery. Brand specific batteries cost twice or 3 times what generic but reputable batteries cost. A LiIon battery is good for about 1000 charges they say. I've got about 240 charges on mine and it is holding up fine at 3 1/2 years of age. But mine is 840 wh, the giant appears to be 400.
As far as going slowly uphill, bike motor torque picks up as the speed picks up and you'll find that letting the motor do most of the work you'll find a speed that saves the most battery faster than slow.
There are UK e-bike forums, and German e-bike forums if you can read that. They would have more information on Europe only brands than we have here.
Bafang motors have a decent reputation in both mid-drive and hub motor varieties. Dapu has its fans.
Some less expensive e-bike brands save money on wheels, spokes & cables. Frequent adjustments become required. Not all shiny metal objects are steel or aluminum. A lot of the cheaper ones are mystery metal. I had plenty of adjustments required on my $220 MTB's & cruisers before I bought this $2300 bike. Also some cheap brands don't debur the wheels & spokes and are plagued by flat tires. Some brands suffer cracked frames, the ultimate safety hazard. See brand forums below.
Giant comes in various frame sizes. Make sure you get one that fits your body, not the one that the shop has in stock that day. Same with "One size fits all" cheaper brands. That size doesn't fit me, I'm short.
You're going to want fenders if your appearance matters at all at work. A brown stripe up the rear is not at all fashionable. Another indespensible accessory is a good lock and tether. If you can't afford a tow truck in case of trouble or can't wait on one, you may need to lock up the bike to a secure metal object even if you never stop at a store, restaurant, or toilet room. I shop and eat at restaurants off my bike all the time. My 13 mm x 2 m stainless steel cable was $70 and the Abus lock was $48. See the various security threads about the various options. My bike has been on the street or in parking lots probably 1000 times in 4 years, and hasn't been stolen yet.
Reliability: tires can be a constant struggle. I use $26 knobby tires (taiwan made kenda or giant) designed for off -road, which roll over glass, steel, tire shreds, without the air holding part ever touching the trash. I wear tires out without flats usually. Other people swear by slime, or tire liners, or $60 schalbe tires. The city tires that came on my bike, the first flat occured at 700 miles. Changing out the thin OEM tires should be a priority unless they have knobs about 3 mm tall or are schalbe marathons.
Happy shopping & later riding.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You will decidedly need a mid-drive motor in the hills.
Cube is a trusted brand making beautiful mid-drive e-bikes. Look to, for example, Kathmandu models.
Giant is not only the biggest bike manufacturer in the world but it also has a large dealer network.

The issue I can see with your budget here is it would buy you a well-know brand e-bike but with rather a small battery (like 400 Wh). While that battery is perfect for a short commute you've described, it will end up with a great disappointment for your leisure rides in hilly areas.

Larger battery is a significant factor in e-bike prices. If you wanted a 625 Wh battery, the price will significantly increase. My point is: If you buy an e-bike with a small battery, you might not be able to upgrade the e-bike later. Bad.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hi everyone.
I have decided to get my first ebike.
Have checked this great forum, but most of "advice threads" cover brands that are imposible to get in Europe. Therefore decided to try my luck with a separate thread.
Would appreciate any advice. Tried to make it structured for easy reading.

Purpose: commuting to work (around 7km oneway with most of the time going uphill, need to be fresh for work) + fun time for weekends (love going easy hilly trails around the city).

Criteria:
- price: 1500-2500 EUR (1500 is ideal as there is a tax incentive of up to 1500 here, but I am ready to add some)
- at liest front suspention (I undestand that it might not be super needed for my scenarios, but I just cant stand a bike without any susp. Full would be great, but I understand that it will definitely be out of my league).
- at liest 27" wheels (even though I am not very high - 176cm - on a 26" I feel like a giant. Can look at 26" only if it is just best.
- no road/ cx bike - dont like leaning forward position + it will not be safe here as I need to pay more attention for the road.
- absolutely NO to fat tyres.
- I have absolutely no peference about the motor position (rear/ mid) or sensor type as I dont quite understand the difference. ATM I use some entry level hardtail and happy with it. The only thing I need is some power for that hill. DIY is not an option as I can use a tax incentive and for it the bike must be new and ready.

I tried to check the market and that is what I found:

Option one:
Some well-known brand with "so-so" setup
Giant roam E+ (2550 EUR) (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/roam-eplus-electric-bike) - roam series fits my demands quite well, but is it worth paying 2500EUR for 50nm torque + alivio? It is top end of my comfort zone and it is hard to get over it.
Some CUBE models (2400-2600 EUR with practically the same setup as the Giant)

Option two:
Some "noname" with relatively good setup.
Tried to find any good shop in europe and the only google result was some shop with the bikes from brands I have never heard of. Below are some options from the shop:
LEADER FOX Sandy (1500 EUR: Bafang REAR motor) (https://greatebike.eu/leader-fox-sandy-2021)
CRUSSIS e-Cross 7.6 (1676 EUR; Bafand M400, close to 7,7 just a little bit smaller battery) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-e-cross-7-6)
CRUSSIS e-Gordo 7.7 (1800 EUR; Bafang M400) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-e-gordo-7-7)
LEADER FOX Awalon 29" (2100 EUR; Bafang M420) (https://greatebike.eu/leader-fox-awalon-29-2021)

Some additional "strange" options (either the unknown engine or expensive but noname)
CRUSSIS OLI Atland 8.6-S (2036EUR; OLI engine) (https://greatebike.eu/crussis-oli-atland-8-6-s)
LOVELEC Sargo (1880 EUR; DAPU motor) (https://greatebike.eu/lovelec-sargo)
4EVER ESWORD SPORT (2400 EUR; Bafang M500) (https://greatebike.eu/4ever-esword-sport)

Option three:
Some trustworthy brand which will satisfy my needs. Would be great if someone could share the examples.

Option four:
Get over the fact that this idea is stupid and just buy Giant Roam 1 and try going super slow uphill to stay fresh


I have tried searching local brands, but most of them make either super small foldable bikes or are expensive (4k+).
I undestand that my request might be a bit too much, but I hope there is a chance for a great deal.

Hi Ebikist

can you get bikes from Chain Reaction (online ) Over in Irl? Irish here but living in UK. 20 mins ago I just spotted what looks like a good deal on a Vitus Mach e bike reduced to £2,199. I've seen this reviewed very highly in the past. It doesn't have front sus, but a handlebar sus stem should do the trick for road commuting (like the red shift reviewed elsewhere on here). Anyway here's the link:

Chain Reaction | MTB, Gravel & Road Bikes | Epic MTB Gear

We love bikes & MTB. Discover our epic bikes, bike parts, cycle apparel, accessories & more. Let us hook you up with all the gear you need to send it!

www.chainreactioncycles.com

With Black Friday coming worth checking a lot of the big chains for discounted e bikes. For something with front sus Cube seem to be good value and yeah Giant are good too. Alivio aint bad plus remember if you wear it out a deore replacement is still pretty cheap, can even get good ebay deals. Plus I find coming to end of year there are a lot of discounted bikes around the place, though probably less then normal with supply issues. Only you can know the type of e bike that'll do the job for you - I started last Oct with a budget of £2K but ended up spending £2.5K on a Vado SL and it turned out it was the right choice for me. Though if I'd seen that Vitus & at that sort of price I would definitely been tempted. Ironically the Vado SL has now jumped in price by around 500 quid so if buying now would definitely be out of my price range. Good hunting!

 

[Ebikist]

Thank you for information. That was super useful and I finally got some understanding.
Checked out the forums and understood that there are even more brands that I don't know so I do not care about them anymore.

As for Vitus, it looks great, but I see only L is left. I am 176cm 63kg so judging by the chart it is too big for me.

 

[TrevorB]

For hilly commutes go for 65-85nm motors eg Bosch PerformanceLine or CX. I tried 50nm on my hilly commute before buying 65nm bike, definitely worth the upgrade.
I wouldn't worry to much about battery size, 400whr is fine for your commute and weekend exporing. You can always buy extra 400whr battery later if you get into touring or 6A(bosch) fast charger and topup over pub lunch.

For mainstream middrive bikes there is no upgrading motor, wheel diameter or changing frame geometry.
You can easily upgrade, drivetrains, brakes, seats, tyres, handlebars and batteries.

Whatever you do test rides are a must. If frame doesn't work for you it could be expensive mistake.

 

[Ebikist]

Checked out the options and decided to try out Radon Solution CX 8.0

Solution Hybrid 8.0 CX 500

Zum Download der EG-Konformitätserklärung der E-Bikes von Radon: >HIER KLICKEN Die Highlights des Solution Hybrid 8.0 CX 500 Das Herzstück ist der brandneue Bosch Performance Line CX Motor der vierten...

www.bike-discount.de

Looks like a nice trekking bike with enough power/ tyres/ battery for both commuting (like 80% of time) and some light trail fun on weekends. All for 2100 EUR.

Was thinking of performance 8.0

ZR Team Hybrid 8.0 Performance 500

Zum Download der EG-Konformitätserklärung der E-Bikes von Radon: >HIER KLICKEN Die Highlights des ZR Team Hybrid Performance 8.0 500 Der Motor stellt kräftige 65 Nm Drehmoment zur Verfügung, die sowohl...

www.bike-discount.de

The difference was slower engine (performance vs CX), fatter tyres (classic mtb vs trekking) and lack of accessories (just nothing vs full pack). It was 200 EUR cheaper, but tried to get all the stuff for it and got around 100 EUR pack + some headache with installing properly.
So solution was just 100 EUR extra for motor and no headache.

What do you think of such a solution?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi Ebikist,

Both e-bikes look decently. There are only these questions remaining:

• Who will service any of these e-bikes on the bike (mechanical) side?
• Is there any certified Bosch E-bike service point around you, so your e-bike could be serviced on the motor/electronics side?

Because I can see you want to buy the e-bike online. There is nothing better than buying from a Local Bike Store (LBS) that will guarantee servicing, repairs and warranty handling for you.
Regarding the choice between both e-bikes: The Hybrid is city/adventure related, equipped e-bile. The Performance is a hardtail e-MTB with less powerful motor. The point with any MTB is these love to be ridden off-road, and they actually hate being ridden on the pavement (proper off-road tyres are very noisy on the pavement). Therefore, you should consider your principal activity: if that's the commute, the Hybrid would be a better choice.

 

[Ebikist]

I guess I will do the light servicing (tightening of screws, oiling, etc) with a check up once a year at my local bike service somewhere (as there are many of them here).
Also the Bosch website shows some service centers close to me should I need a check up.
I agree that buying in Lbs is much safer path, but there is literally no good choice here. All options are either too expensive (4k+) or simply useless.

As for the usage it will be 70% commuting 15% parks and 15% some light off road in hills when I want to have some fun.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I guess I will do the light servicing (tightening of screws, oiling, etc) with a check up once a year at my local bike service somewhere (as there are many of them here).
Also the Bosch website shows some service centers close to me should I need a check up.
I agree that buying in Lbs is much safer path, but there is literally no good choice here. All options are either too expensive (4k+) or simply useless.

As for the usage it will be 70% commuting 15% parks and 15% some light off road in hills when I want to have some fun.

A Specialized Turbo Tero 3.0 should be available anywhere in Europe at price of EUR3300. (Only to be bought at a Specialized LBS).
I have had a longer test ride on that e-bike, and I was very much delighted with it!

Turbo Tero 3.0

The Turbo Tero means one thing: you're going to need a bigger map. With ride anywhere range, this adventure-ready suspension electric bike is our go-any...

www.specialized.com

 

[TrevorB]

Checked out the options and decided to try out Radon Solution CX 8.0

Solution Hybrid 8.0 CX 500

Zum Download der EG-Konformitätserklärung der E-Bikes von Radon: >HIER KLICKEN Die Highlights des Solution Hybrid 8.0 CX 500 Das Herzstück ist der brandneue Bosch Performance Line CX Motor der vierten...

www.bike-discount.de

Looks like a nice trekking bike with enough power/ tyres/ battery for both commuting (like 80% of time) and some light trail fun on weekends. All for 2100 EUR.

Was thinking of performance 8.0

ZR Team Hybrid 8.0 Performance 500

Zum Download der EG-Konformitätserklärung der E-Bikes von Radon: >HIER KLICKEN Die Highlights des ZR Team Hybrid Performance 8.0 500 Der Motor stellt kräftige 65 Nm Drehmoment zur Verfügung, die sowohl...

www.bike-discount.de

The difference was slower engine (performance vs CX), fatter tyres (classic mtb vs trekking) and lack of accessories (just nothing vs full pack). It was 200 EUR cheaper, but tried to get all the stuff for it and got around 100 EUR pack + some headache with installing properly.
So solution was just 100 EUR extra for motor and no headache.

What do you think of such a solution?

While specs on hybrid are good, your offroad tyre options will be limited. Try a Smart Sam or Maxxis Crossroads 2.0", doubt mudguards will that anything wider.