Strange wheel building on NCM Moskov

[okidoki]

Hi Everyone,

Today I noticed that the spokes on my NCM Moskow look very strange. The spoke that is attached to the inner side of the hub goes over the spoke that is attached to the outer side of the hub. In other words, the spokes push each other and create unnecessary tension on each other. The first picture is from this web site and looks normal. The second one is my bike, which seems strange. I have read some reviews related to breaking spokes. Can this be the reason? Is it a manufacturing defect? Dou you think it is necessary to rebuild?

(This picture is from the review page of this web site)

(this picture is from my bike)

 

[Deleted member 4210]

That is how the spokes are supposed to be designed. It's an integral part of proper design and wheel building for them to be pressing against each other. If you are hearing noises, it means your spokes likely need to be re-tensioned. If you bought it through a local dealer, then take it back and have them do that. I inspect spokes prior to delivery, and tension them for my customers. If you bought on line, then it is your responsibility as a buyer to be aware of that and how to do it properly, or pay a local shop to do it if you don't know how.

 

[Papparay]

Yup, they look correct to me. Check to see if any need a quick adjustment. (spoke wrench tool required about £5).

 

[RJC]

They are defiantly not fitted the same as all other NCM Moscow bike pictures iv'e seen. .. The inside spokes should be behind the outside spokes , like in your first picture. My Moscow spokes are fitted as in your first picture.

 

[Papparay]

Yup, they look correct to me. Check to see if any need a quick adjustment. (spoke wrench tool required about £5).

 

[RJC]

Hi Papparay.Have a look at your Moscow, do the inside spokes cross over the outside spoke close to the hub.

 

[Papparay]

Apologies you're right. The 2nd picture doesn't look right. Top picture does!

Hi Papparay.Have a look at your Moscow, do the inside spokes cross over the outside spoke close to the hub.

Hi buddy, I'll check it out tomorrow

 

[lankox]

I just checked my 27.5 standard and the spokes match picture 2.

 

[wattrider]

Checked mine, the rear wheel spokes are not touching like the first photo. The spokes are touching on the front wheel with the smaller hub though.

 

[lankox]

I can't imagine that either way is acceptable therefore some of us might have a serious issue. I hope we can get this resolved.

 

[J.R.]

It's a single crossing lacing pattern, picture #2 is the correct layout. It doesn't have anything to do with the brand, these are tried and true engineering principles of wheel lacing. Most bicycle wheels have two or three crossing spokes, in which case there might be only one or two touching crossed spokes. At least one will be touching and when you have only one cross it will touch.

 

[TheEqualiser]

Weird! I did think at first that the difference might be between 27.5's and 29's but the first photo is a 29 and the "inside" spokes do not overlap the "outside" spokes although you would expect them to and the second photo is a 27.5 where the "Inside" spokes do overlap the "outside" ones. So just to confuse things, I have a 27.5 and my "inside" spokes do not overlap or touch my "outside" spokes.

 

[RJC]

Be interesting to know where the rear wheels are manufactured. Do NCM build them or are the out sourced. Either way you'd think they'd all be built the same, for the same bike model.

 

[okidoki]

Thanks for the replies and comments. This is a very confusing situation. One of these two pictures must be the correct one. As I see, there is no consensus in the forum. If both are correct, the question is, what are the differences, cons and pros. I am not an expert, but in my opinion, the first picture is the correct one. Because spokes (generally metal strings) are very resistant to pulling force (created by the rim and hub in this example). But they are not as resistant against the lateral force (created by another spoke which goes cross over). I can not see any benefit in picture 2. I sent an email and ask to Leon Cycle. I will let you know when they reply.

 

[Papparay]

Definitely inside spoke crosses over on the inside on the 27.5.

 

[Decrepidude]

Thanks for the replies and comments. This is a very confusing situation. One of these two pictures must be the correct one. As I see, there is no consensus in the forum. If both are correct, the question is, what are the differences, cons and pros. I am not an expert, but in my opinion, the first picture is the correct one. Because spokes (generally metal strings) are very resistant to pulling force (created by the rim and hub in this example). But they are not as resistant against the lateral force (created by another spoke which goes cross over). I can not see any benefit in picture 2. I sent an email and ask to Leon Cycle. I will let you know when they reply.

Still no reply from Leon? You've left me hanging, Oki, my spokes do the same as yours, and I'd like to know the answer.

 

[Widegide]

My 27.5 wheels are also laced like the OP, so each spoke has a slight bend where they cross.

Doesn't seem right. I too am interested in what Leons has to say.

 

[Widegide]

Here's something I found searching the net on this topic.......

Probably the best source for answering this is Jobst Brandt's The Bicycle Wheel, the definitive text on the wire-spoked wheel and an essential for anyone interested in the art of wheelbuilding. Excerpted from page 68 of the 3rd edition:

Spokes in a crossed pattern are usually interlaced at their last crossing before reaching the rim. Spokes coming from between the flanges are laid over those from outside the flanges. Interlaced spokes take up each other's slack during severe radial loading and reduce the chance of spokes becoming loose. If spokes become loose, their nipples can unscrew. Radial spokes cannot be interlaced and therefore, lose alignment from road shock more easily. Interlacing also gives more clearance between the spokes and the derailleur on rear wheels.

 

[john peck]

The first picture is correct; the second most definitely is not! Spokes laced like the 2nd pic will bind against
each other & wear out the spoke bores & be prone to broken spokes. I had a similar issue with my now parts
bike juiced CCS. I love my moscow,(3000 miles with only minor issues), but you need to get a properly laced
wheel. Whether that was done by an inexperienced worker or just a PO´d one, you need to do something about it!

 

[john peck]

It's a single crossing lacing pattern, picture #2 is the correct layout. It doesn't have anything to do with the brand, these are tried and true engineering principles of wheel lacing. Most bicycle wheels have two or three crossing spokes, in which case there might be only one or two touching crossed spokes. At least one will be touching and when you have only one cross it will touch.

J.R., I beg the differ. It looks right at a glance, but inside spoke needs to be inside & not crossed to the outside.
(see above post)