Stan's vs Flat-out

[murbot]

Would Stan's sealant perform better than Flat-out on a Rad Mini 4 with tubes?
If performance is equal, is Stan's easier or harder to install?

I'll mostly be riding gravely campgrounds and worn trails with the kids. I purchased Flat-out, but didn't install yet. Stan's seems much cheaper and maybe better.

Thanks

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have used them all and all can fail.right now using flat out and hand one seal and one failure. Its the messiest of any of them. but you dont want stans as it will dry out in a year or less. it seems to work fairly well but it is something you have to renew,

 

[m@Robertson]

Stans is thin stuff. Its meant for thorns and the like - nails tops. It works great for those kinds of flats but it does dry out in a few months. Its rated for only a few months but I have had it last over a year. BUT it still dries out. Google "Stan's boogers" to see what happens when it does.

Flatout is thick and gooey and I have had it absolutely work miracles. Once on a strip of roofing nails from a nailgun - six freaking holes right in a row, closely spaced. On a fat cargo bike carrying a couple of bags of cement no less. I carry an electrical pump and I needed three refills (fill, ride a block, refill, repeat) but the thing sealed after the third and to this day the same tire is in use. By the way this was using Flatout as a tubeless sealant. Tires were Snowshoe XLs on Nextie deep dish 90mm c/f rims.

On that same bike, before I went tubeless, I was running the same tires with Vee 5.05 tubes underneath on Surly MYOBD rims. Hit a twisted strip of metal that tore into the back. Two refills needed but rode home. Was a night commute so a walk or a repair would have sucked there too.

I have heard Flatout hits a wall with high pressure tires. Its worked 100% of the time for me on tires that max out at up to about 55-ish psi. Stans has been perfect with thorns and such. Not so with bigger stuff like jagged metal of the kind Flatout sealed. Stans did not get its reputation by being talked about. Its been on the job for years and what it does, it does well. But it has limits that seem to be broadened by Flatout, which I consider to be a more evolved version of the same sealant idea.

oh and...

A Lightweight Electric Emergency Bike Pump

Got an ebike? Use the big battery you are already lugging around to power a small portable pump.

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[murbot]

Thanks for the great info. I've had years where I'm the guy that gets the flats on every ride and years with none. eBike'ing is new to me so I ordered the Tannus liners and plan to use the Flat-out with it, but maybe I'll try without the extra sealant for a few months.
Just ordered the Mini 4 today after returning an RR6 that would've been too much trouble to travel with my family and their bikes\trailer etc.

 

[fooferdoggie]

yep higher pressure causes issues and rain too.

 

[m@Robertson]

I ordered the Tannus liners and plan to use the Flat-out with it, but maybe I'll try without the extra sealant for a few months.

Oh I would NOT rely on Tannus alone under any circumstances. Think of Tannus as gravy, despite the gray gravy you are using inside the tube

Don't know if you have researched it deeply enough but Tannus compacts itself over time and becomes thinner and thinner. I recently pulled apart the front (not the back, take note) wheel on my ti 2wd bike and found the Tannus inside had compressed quite a lot. Not paper thin yet, but ... baseball-mitt-leather thin? I just made that up. I think its still effective but it looks like, for a 26" fat tire. FlatOut is going to become a very expensive, wide-wrapping Mr. Tuffy liner. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I am running Snowshoe XL's on 100mm rims running as low as 6 psi in deep, coarse, dry-ish beach sand. I think the liners are benefitting me in a couple of ways at such low pressures. But be advised That when Tannus warns you about this happening, and they recommend you deflate the tires in between rides (!) to stave off this outcome for as long as possible, its not idle chatter.

I am still going to use Tannus but if it compresses like this that means that using undersized tubes as Tannus recommends is not such a great idea. I like oversizing my tubes as it is, so when I change my tires over I will go from 4.0" tubes under 4.8" tires to 5.05" tubes and just *barely* inflate them inside to get them mounted - even on new installations.

This is a case where an already sometimes very difficult install (Tannus varies from 'no biggie' to 'nightmare' depending on the wheel/tire) just got a little bit more cerebral.

 

[George S.]

I carry a bottle of Slime in my BBS02 commuter, but it has Schwalbe Marathons I got a Lectric XP and bought some Flat Out. No great tough tire choices, yet. If it had a thorn, put it in the Slime and see what happens on the road. The Flat Out seems pretty good from this video, so I put some in the rear of the XP, where everything is in the way. I don't know about the video, with the screws. I mostly worry about thorns, but you never know. I guess I'll do the front. Ideally people know how to do flat repairs, especially with the rear tire in place.

I wanted to like the Tannus, but if they compress I don't see how that works. They are supposed to have enough bulk to be a run flat (5mph). But the Fats are excluded, and if the liners compress?

Flat Out does not mention bikes in the advertising. I used the 'dirt bike' amount. When I went to add air, the valve was not gummed up. I had some tubes with a sealer that were always gummed up. I used the bottle of Slime because it has a usable core removal tool. No product, just the tool. The Flat Out has a toy core removal tool. Not a good first impression. I didn't know about the compression issue. That sounds really serious. The video concluded Flat Out plus the Tannus, but I don't see where the Tannus is pulling a lot of weight. It's very expensive foam. It was an entertaining video. Kind of like This Old House.

 

[murbot]

Thanks m@, That's why we have these forums. Seriously. You don't get long term use info like that without speaking with someone who knows. Thank you for the heads up the foam compression. I like the idea of the softer ride Tannus might provide, but sounds like that will fade some. I've used old inner tubes cut up and placed to line the the inside of the tire. I've heard of folks cutting off the sidewalls from old tires and using them the same way as a Tannus liner basically, so maybe I'll try those if I get flats with Tannus.

Thanks George,
I've seen that video with the Tannus/FlatOut config winning overall and I originally got it for the RR6 given the higher likelihood of flats with its 4" tires...and my luck. ;-) I figured I'd go ahead and use FlatOut on the Mini 4. But the more I read, the more it seems Mini 4's (with 3.3" tires and liners included) don't have the same track record of getting flats as the larger 4" tires. I don't know for certain, but didn't see liners advertised as included with the Rovers the same as the Mini's. The point is, I may not need to bother with the FlatOut for the Mini. Or if I do, maybe Slime would be better given some of the more complex tasks involved with FlatOut. Not that it's difficult to do, but you made a good point. I can always use FlatOut in my trailer where it meant to be used anyway.

Got a good suspension seat already and Cloud9 seat. Will upgrade the forks eventually to something cushier and lighter too hopefully. The point of an ebike for me is to get back out after a less than successful surgery in July 2021 to address a 2016 pelvic injury. Wasn't biking, nobody wants to hear how it happened. At least that's what everybody says after hearing it. LOL Anyway, eager to feel myself moving around and seeing new and different nature, people, places etc.

 

[m@Robertson]

With the limitations of Tannus being known, I am going into this game knowing that, and using both FlatOut and Tannus. On tubeless setups, its FlatOut alone. I would not mind something else underneath, but as tubeless goes - the sealant is all there is (that actually provides a benefit). On the Thanksgiving break I will be switching out to full size tubes when I also replace my worn tires.

I used to use Slime and consider it to be Sealant Gen 1.0. FlatOut is Gen2. Its better in every way. Believe me I have stretched Slime to its limits in terms of riding commuter bikes and rolling over nails, metal strips, thorns, bolts, baby ducks, toddlers... the works. Using Slime is a quantum leap backwards. I suppose if I were Slime and I sold as much as they did I wouldn't mess with a good thing either. But the fact is, they haven't done any innovating of that product in a lonnnng time.

 

[fooferdoggie]

had another flat on our tandem and the flat out did not work. but the problem is if you cant find something sticking out of your tire to remove then its not going to work. I doubt anything will. this time it was a little bit of steel wire that I had to remove from inside and was so short I had trouble getting ahold of it. last time it was a sliver of glass I had to push out from the inside. so it can be so many things that cause sealant to fail. Schwalbe ENERGIZER PLUS seem more prone to flats than the marathon plus or it could be because they are on a tandem.