Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[Jeremy McCreary]

In flat Mazovia? No, no reason to!

I'm sure we could spare a few hills if you'd like to sprinkle some around for a little variety.

I've seen hills in your ride and especially race photos, including a few along the Vistula in Warsaw.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've seen hills in your ride and especially race photos, including a few along the Vistula in Warsaw.

Please bear in mind I do not only ride in Mazovia Hovewer, there are only two significant hills in the province (Mt. Calvary and Czersk), and those were too far for my Mastermind e-bike demo rides. Besides, I could climb Mt. Calvary with my Vado SL, on rough cobblestones! 10% grade and a short climb.

Of course races in Sudovia or Varmia include hills but I have no Mastermind to test it there. I wouldn't manage Poland's high mountains on an SL...

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Asked my retired systems engineer friend how he would go about estimating range on a lightweight ebike like the SL using only internal resources. No attached smartphone, no cloud connection.

First thing he wanted was a list of all available sensors. Second thing was onboard computing resources, including memory for holding multiple sensor output time series for rolling window analyses.

I could give him a fairly complete sensor list, but no clue about the SL's computing resources.

Anyone?

 

[mogulman]

I'll try this next time, even if it is just for you to prove that Wahoo is better. I know you love Wahoo.

Ok... So I hate to admit this, but Stefan is right in this instance. My Garmin 840 only displays the main battery level. I was misled, because I always ride with them draining together and thought the Garmin was displaying a combined %. It is close because when you start with them both at 100% they do drain similarly, but not exactly.

Started out at 100% with just the main battery. Went down to 50% with the main. Then attached the Range Extender so the total on the Specialized display showed 100%. The main and % on my Garmin stayed around 50 until the Main+RE went to about 80%. Then the main started to go down.

Interesting things I noticed. I rode in Turbo the entire way so I could drain quicker.

• If you attach the RE while the bike is turned on, the bike shuts down and you need to start it back up again.
• If you disconnect the RE while the bike is turned on, it seems to adjust ok.
• If you attach a full RE to a half-full main, the RE drains first for a while. Then when it gets closer to the Main level, they both drain together but not exactly the same %.
• I hate riding full-time Turbo mode. I feel like the bike is very jerky. Also, when switching gears, sometimes it almost feels like the bike motor is slowing me down until I pedal faster. It's not a smooth experience like it is at 60-65% or lower.

So, Wahoo does have their API reading main battery/RE. Garmin does not. That doesn't mean I like Wahoo better. The way I use my bike it doesn't really matter to me that much. I still prefer the display, touchscreen, routing/map functionality on my Garmin.

 

[mogulman]

Ok. So rode about 32 miles today. I have a Turbo Vado SL 5.0 with a Garmin Edge 840 latest firmware. I also was using a range extender. So started out with 150% battery on specialized (100% on Garmin). I was riding almost 100% at 60/100 assist.

On my Garmin, shift advice wasn't working. Maybe it isn't compatible with the Vado. Travel Range on the Garmin is the same number that is being reported by Specialized as Estimated Range. Smart Range is something different.

When I started, Estimated Range was 52 miles. Smart Range was around 10 miles.

Garmin smart Range would change as soon as I moved from sport, eco, turbo. Estimated range changed intermittently. Not sure why or when. I tried seeing if it was mileage or time related or battery related, but none of those were consistent.

Smart Range seemed useless to me. Not sure where Garmin is pulling this number from or if it's configurable.

Estimated Range ended up at 17 when I finished my ride at 32 miles. This was with about 40% battery left. For the last 15 miles of my ride, it was pretty much keeping me at 49 miles total range. Not sure if that total range number was correct, but at least it was consistent.

I'm going to msg Garmin to find out what is going with Smart Range.

Ok...so there are two issues going on here.
#1: Garmin isn't using the Range Extender in it's calculation (good catch Stefan). So Specialized estimates a much longer ranch with the RE.
#2: Even with just a main battery, Garmin Smart Travel Range is about 50% of what Specialized is calculating. I created a case with Garmin engineering and they are looking into it. I wouldn't expect their calculation to be the same, but it should be closer.

 

[stompandgo]

You might get an update sometime in 2026. Garmin is terrible with requested feature updates.

 

[mogulman]

You might get an update sometime in 2026. Garmin is terrible with requested feature updates.

I was thinking when the Edge 860 comes out in 2028

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Big discovery!
EDIT: And big disappointment! (see follow-up below)

In rereading the official Mastermind display documentation below, I came across an exciting surprise: Mastermind can show a rolling-window gradient!

https://support.specialized.com/kb/sp_zh-cn/content/ECV3-6200/Turbo-Bikes-MasterMind-Display-Metrics-Symbols/ECV3-6200

Tested the Mastermind gradient readings on a mix of moderate to steep closely spaced hills and gently rolling terrain today.

The clear verdict: Totally useless in this topography.

Just some of the issues:
1. Wild fluctuations over a matter of seconds on more or less steady grades, especially climbs.
2. Severe delay — e g., the negative gradients eventually reported on longer descents can persist halfway up the next climb.
3. Hard braking drives the readings down, often into negative values — even on uphills and flats.

I've measured the gradients on many parts of this test course with an inclinometer. Every once in a while, the TCU actually flashed a plausible reading. But most of the time, the readings were clearly garbage, even allowing for the lag.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Meanwhile, I'm ready for a travel together with Jacek to the province of Varmia for a gravel e-race. (Jacek is riding a pedal only 100 mile Classic). Battery planning won't be easy! The race is 84 km (52 mi) with 860 m (2,821 ft) elevation gain. That would be of no issue but there will be a very strong wind, partly helping on the outbound leg of the race but consuming the batteries on the return! We are setting off for a prologue ride with Jacek, into the wind and back. This will help me determine assistance levels. (I need a lot of assistance on a race!)

Wish me luck.

 

[stompandgo]

I was thinking when the Edge 860 comes out in 2028

Wishful thinking.

 

[stompandgo]

Meanwhile, I'm ready for a travel together with Jacek to the province of Varmia for a gravel e-race. (Jacek is riding a pedal only 100 mile Classic). Battery planning won't be easy! The race is 84 km (52 mi) with 860 m (2,821 ft) elevation gain. That would be of no issue but there will be a very strong wind, partly helping on the outbound leg of the race but consuming the batteries on the return! We are setting off for a prologue ride with Jacek, into the wind and back. This will help me determine assistance levels. (I need a lot of assistance on a race!)

Wish me luck.

Crush it.

 

[mogulman]

Meanwhile, I'm ready for a travel together with Jacek to the province of Varmia for a gravel e-race. (Jacek is riding a pedal only 100 mile Classic). Battery planning won't be easy! The race is 84 km (52 mi) with 860 m (2,821 ft) elevation gain. That would be of no issue but there will be a very strong wind, partly helping on the outbound leg of the race but consuming the batteries on the return! We are setting off for a prologue ride with Jacek, into the wind and back. This will help me determine assistance levels. (I need a lot of assistance on a race!)

Wish me luck.

Good Luck!!! Are you using both RE? Seems like one may be enough with that distance.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good Luck!!! Are you using both RE? Seems like one may be enough with that distance.

Four One would be enough were I a healthy person...

 

[Watana Bob]

As much riding as you do Stefan, I would guess that you are pretty darn healthy even with your heart issues. Best of luck to you in the gravel race.

 

[Herbs]

Question for you all please,

On an average ride how much 'average motor power' are getting according to the app?

As an unfit 45 year old, the bike has been a game changer to be able to keep riding and not throw it in the garage and not ride it again (yes, i have done that before!). I purposely bought a SL4 so that I had to still work to get anywhere and being able to ride the bike with the motor off is important - not that I can do much of that currently.

I tend to look at Average rider power and average motor power to see how i'm progressing, is there a better way of doing this?

Last night's 20 mile ride I averaged 43 W average motor power and spent 18% Off, 48% in ECO, 32% Sport and 3% Turbo.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am a special case, as my atherosclerosis makes me use pretty high assistance. I have a good statistical data (not from the App). On the gravel race of last Saturday, I rode for 50 miles and 2,477 ft elevation gain (I use Imperial units for your convenience). I used 570 Wh from the main and range extender batteries. The SL 1.1 motor efficiency is 0.79. Thus, the amount of energy converted into mechanical propulsion was 570 * 0.79 = 450 Wh. My net riding time was 3.88 hour. Therefore, the average mechanical motor power was 450 / 3.88 = 115.9 W.

Assistance levels:
ECO: 60/60%
SPORT: 80/80%
TURBO: 100/100%.

I only coasted on descents.

 

[stompandgo]

I can only see Average Power and Current Power, both from me, on my bike, so I use AP for the ride, Heart Rate, and Assist Level to gauge my fitness for similar rides in similar conditions.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Question for you all please,

On an average ride how much 'average motor power' are getting according to the app?

As an unfit 45 year old, the bike has been a game changer to be able to keep riding and not throw it in the garage and not ride it again (yes, i have done that before!). I purposely bought a SL4 so that I had to still work to get anywhere and being able to ride the bike with the motor off is important - not that I can do much of that currently.

I tend to look at Average rider power and average motor power to see how i'm progressing, is there a better way of doing this?

Last night's 20 mile ride I averaged 43 W average motor power and spent 18% Off, 48% in ECO, 32% Sport and 3% Turbo.

A very interesting question. I'm by no means a strong rider, but I KNOW for a fact that the SL's made me significantly stronger than when I bought it 10 months ago.

That said, I can't see rider and motor power trends well enough in my ride recordings to back that up with numbers. I record all SL rides and export all to RideWithGPS for analytics that the Specialized app doesn't provide. But I still have no way to plot a metric like average motor power (AMP) across rides.

Don't know if Strava has that capability, but if it does, this is where @Stefan Mikes will try to sell me on Strava again. And as much as I hate to admit it, he may be right this time.

So @Stefan Mikes , can Strava plot selected power metrics over the entire time I've owned the SL? And if so, do I need the paid version for that?

All that said, did some spot checks. My AMP is generally well under 60W on rolling coast rides and ranges up to 80W on inland hill rides. Overall, AMP seems to correlate at least loosely with elevation gain per mile, which tends to run about 40-50 ft/mi on coast rides and 60-100 ft/mi on hill rides.

I stop a lot — not for rest, but for beaches, map consults, photo ops, snacks, etc. Hence, the Specialized app's adjusted average rider power (AARP, aka normalized power) is probably a better guide than the significantly lower straight average rider power (ARP). But I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

My AARP generally runs in the 150-180W range, perhaps with a slight upward trend since purchase. Subjectively, I've been spending more and more time in OFF, but I'd like to see a plot of that.

Paradoxically, my riding's also become increasingly bipolar, bouncing more and more between just OFF and SPORT. The latter's just fun, and it definitely triggers my Carrot Effect, which then leads to better workouts.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So @Stefan Mikes , can Strava plot selected power metrics over the entire time I've owned the SL? And if so, do I need the paid version for that?

Not. Strava is for riders not for their bikes Everything a normal rider needs is in the free version of Strava.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Not. Strava is for riders not for their bikes Everything a normal rider needs is in the free version of Strava.

Thanks, but since I'm not familiar with Strava, that doesn't answer the specific plotting question:

Can Strava plot selected power metrics over the entire time I've owned the SL a given time period including many rides?