Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

I don't have the engineering brain for all that data, particularly while on the ride. I like it simple so my head isn't staring down at the bars. I set the Specialized app running & stick the phone in the front bag or a pocket. I have the UK Ordnance Survey map app on my phone as well so I can stop and check the map if I get lost or see an interesting bridleway or path.

I don't have any interest seeing live feed of speed and the battery indicator lights on the top tube are enough to guesstimate how the battery is doing. Been riding all my life but never with bike computers. My racing days were far before that tech came in!

I'm happy post ride to look back at stats like distance & elevation. That's nice to see. But I'm on the bike to get away from damn screens!

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GAJ said:
Wall of text posts on the subject of micro analyzation of ride info.

I'm wondering if I'm in the minority in not bothering.
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I think you misunderstood the subject. It is not about the App at all. Vado SL (and other Mastermind e-bikes) can -- as an e-bike not the App -- calculate and display the estimated remaining Range as well as Range Trend on the TCU display. It is an extremely useful feature for anyone riding for longer distances; it is the feature of the e-bike and it has nothing to do with the App.

Rás Cnoic said:
I'm happy post ride to look back at stats like distance & elevation. That's nice to see. But I'm on the bike to get away from damn screens!
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Your version of Vado SL cannot calculate or display the Range...
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I think you misunderstood the subject. It is not about the App at all. Vado SL (and other Mastermind e-bikes) can -- as an e-bike not the App -- calculate and display the estimated remaining Range as well as Range Trend on the TCU display. It is an extremely useful feature for anyone riding for longer distances; it is the feature of the e-bike and it has nothing to do with the App.


Your version of Vado SL cannot calculate or display the Range...
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Fair point. I just count those blue little bars and guess the range left based on experience. Without the range extender I'll get over 30 miles with 3000ft+ elevation with 15-25% gradients. On the Solstice last Saturday I did 25 mile loop and had 28% left with 3009ft, gorgeous sunny day, hitting 27c which is not normal - and I'm very unfit right now that was my first Vado SL ride in June, disgraceful.

I have the bike 4 and half years now and know its range. As a side note, battery seems to be holding up great.

If I'm doing a 50 mile+ with the RE I'll carefully pick a loop with less climbs.
 
Rás, I do not have the Range tool, either. However, my Wahoo shows me battery levels (Main/Extender) with the accuracy of 1% as well as Distance Ridden and Remaining Distance. It is pretty easy for me to control the battery use. (I rode for some 92 km on the flat with Main/RE on the Summer Solstice; had to replace the RE for the return though).

Jeremy is planning a long trip in a hilly desert, so he needs any available tool such as Range, Range Trend as well as Micro Tune to make sure he could complete the ride safely.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Rás, I do not have the Range tool, either. However, my Wahoo shows me battery levels (Main/Extender) with the accuracy of 1% as well as Distance Ridden and Remaining Distance. It is pretty easy for me to control the battery use. (I rode for some 92 km on the flat with Main/RE on the Summer Solstice; had to replace the RE for the return though).

Jeremy is planning a long trip in a hilly desert, so he needs any available tool such as Range, Range Trend as well as Micro Tune to make sure he could complete the ride safely.
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Curious. If this is new desert terrain for Jeremy & if is off-road terrain, to predict battery usage how will the bike computer plan for desert changes in elevation and wind conditions? And above all gradient. To paraphrase Frank Herbert and his Bene Gesserit "Gradient is the Battery Killer"...
 
Rás Cnoic said:
Curious. If this is new desert terrain for Jeremy & if is off-road terrain, to predict battery usage how will the bike computer plan for desert changes in elevation and wind conditions? And above all gradient. To paraphrase Frank Herbert and his Bene Gesserit "Gradient is the Battery Killer"...
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True. I told Jeremy to keep an eye on the Range and Range Trend and manipulate Micro Tune to ensure he would reach the finish line still on the battery!

Meanwhile...

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June 23rd, 2021. Leaving Specialized Warsaw on a brand new Vado SL :) I rode straight home, 32 km or 20 mi without the rear-view mirror! :)

1750787454149.png

Guessing why Mission Control would not connect to my Fearless :)

My Vado SL has been together with me for 4 years and 1 day. The only really broken part was the drive-side crankarm. 18,170 km (11,292 mi) without issues!
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Vado SL (and other Mastermind e-bikes) can -- as an e-bike not the App -- calculate and display the estimated remaining Range as well as Range Trend on the TCU display. It is an extremely useful feature...
Click to expand...
Correct, estimated range (ER) is available only from the Mastermind TCU and must be recalculated at intervals on the fly using only onboard computing power. Whether or not ER readings are actually useful remains to be seen.

At this early stage in my experience with ER, I'm highly skeptical. Ultimately, ER attempts to predict the future from the past somehow using only (a) fixed data baked into the bike, (b) moving data the bike can actually measure and store, and (c) assumptions, empirical relationships, and strategies that Specialized software engineers deem reasonable for this purpose.

We know nothing about (c) but have some knowledge of (a) from Specialized publications. As for (b), we know from the available TCU data fields shown here that the SL can measure or calculate many parameters bearing on ER. With enough processing speed and onboard data storage for look-back purposes, the bike could do some fancy stuff with that info.

But the bike still has no idea what I'm going to do next. It can only assume that I'll keep doing what I've been doing in the past. How much of the past, we have no idea.

And in my case, that's a bad assumption. Heck, I don't know what I'm going to do next half the time. I'm constantly flipping between rolling coast and steep inland hill segments, mostly on whim.
 
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Rás Cnoic said:
Curious. If this is new desert terrain for Jeremy & if is off-road terrain, to predict battery usage how will the bike computer plan for desert changes in elevation and wind conditions? And above all gradient. To paraphrase Frank Herbert and his Bene Gesserit "Gradient is the Battery Killer"...
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So is ground speed — often more so than gradient. Total resistance and speed against it are all that count with battery consumption rate for a given rider power and assist mode tuning. And you can run up the resistance with ground speed, air speed, gradient, a rough or soft surface, or any combination thereof. And as one of our urban commuters reported, repeated accelerations can also take a big toll.

Believe me, I have no intention of trusting the TCU's estimated range to get me through that desert ride — if I decide to go. Might spend the time and money on a geology field trip to a particularly interesting part of the San Andreas Fault instead.
 
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Stefan Mikes said:
You might go SPORT or TURBO, Say the BCFc goes up to 9.0 Wh/mi. As BCFc - BCFp is positive, the Range Trend becomes negative! Now, the integrated value of BCFp goes up: 3.90...3.91...3.92...(...)...9.0. Now, let's say the RBC is only 270 Wh. Slowly, very slowly the ER will drop to 270 / 9.0 = 30 mi. Note: It was 80 before but it is now only 30 miles estimated remaining range.
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Very interesting Stefan. The part of my brain that handles integrals and differentials atrophied long ago but what you're positing makes sense.

I can only speak for the Bosch implementation, but there is 1 clear difference from what you put forward in the above: the estimated range left instantly changes when you change assist level, but is still based on recent riding conditions/power usage.(So essentially applying a multiplier)

Also, it won't give an estimated range when riding without assist.
 
Jeremy, I'm sure you will find ER and RT extremely useful on longer rides. Combined with MicroTune, it gives you a powerful information weapon! I'm absolutely convinced the Specialized algorithms are sophisticated. Bear in mind, the same or similar algorithms are used for Smart Control, which is reliable although the latter is always on the conservative side: 'Make sure the rider reaches the destination still on the battery no matter what!' :)

@BlackHand: I own no Mastermind, so my reasoning was based on the report from Jeremy and on my knowledge of basic control mechanisms as well as rudimentary understanding of numerical calculation methods (I'm a process engineer and am expected to understand processes...) It seems to me (although I could be wrong!) that the Specialized algorithms are really advanced.
  • BLEvo could do Range based on the battery charge loss with distance. BLEvo also knew what the Assistance factors were used for each Mode. If I switched the assistance OFF then the Range was not reported
  • Garmin Smart Range has (I think) a rather simple algorithm based on the battery charge loss over the distance; it seems to calculate Range for each assistance mode based on the calculation in that mode for a period of time. The time constant is large in Garmin, so the Range update is very slow there. Garmin predictions are on the optimistic side.
Not sure what algorithm is used for Bosch E-Bike but it looks any brand does it their own way. The Range calculation for Yamaha/Bosch was the most disappointing!
 
@Jeremy McCreary: Please read my previous post but there something new occurred to me:
  • In case you have a ride plan (something I usually have for adventure trips or races) then Smart Control is the thing. You reveal your plan to Smart Control, and the algorithm takes care for variable assistance. However, hitting a hill only allows going TURBO in a (I think) 30 second burst, and you need to re-activate the power burst for several times on a climb. SC provides a little assistance in the ride beginning but the assistance may grow in case of a positive Range Trend.
  • In case you don't know where you want to ride, ER tells you whether your further ride is feasible or not (in any place of your trip).
@BlackHand: The BES3 allows you entering your route in a compatible display for navigation and then the Bosch system takes automatically care of the assistance so you can reach your destination on the battery! It is the Bosch version of Specialized Smart Control only made differently!
 
Ok. So now I'm down the rabbit hole. I didn't even know Garmin had Smart Range, Travel Range and shifting advice on the edge computer. So now I have that enabled and displayed. I'll have to see how it works with both my Specialized and Giant ebikes.

See how it compares to the range shown by the Vado SL computer.
 
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