Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

[Palmthree]

The max Assist is 2.8x (!!!) and the max power is 430 W. If you ride it in 50/50% assistance, you are assisted 1.4x and the motor power is limited to 215 W.

I don't get this ; I often see something like "Power ratio : 3,6" or even "4" ?
So, the "Eco mode" is about 1x assistance.

Turbo, which is not the right mode to use everyday.

Why ?

If you ride it in 50/50% assistance, you are assisted 1.4x and the motor power is limited to 215 W

How do you know that exactly ?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I don't get this ; I often see something like "Power ratio : 3,6" or even "4" ?
So, the "Eco mode" is about 1x assistance.

In the mid-drive ebike operating system Specialized calls "Turbo", rider power (Pr) measured by the bike is the main determinant of the mechanical motor power (Pm) delivered to the crank. The exact relationship between Pm and Pr depends on (a) 2 independent parameters selected when you pick an assist mode like ECO or SPORT, and (b) 2 more independent parameters specific to your motor.

Full explanation and interactive graphical model here:

Visualizing and exploring the power-sensing PAS in Specialized mid-drives — an interactive graphical model

For our more math-minded Specialized mid-drive riders, here's an interactive graphical model of your bike's tunable power-sensing pedal assist system -- hereafter, just "PAS". The model doesn't cover complex PAS responses to transient events like starting out or approaching PAS cut-off speed...

forums.electricbikereview.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't get this ; I often see something like "Power ratio : 3,6" or even "4" ?

You have read the marketing material In reality, Specialized has published exact data about all full power motors here:
Specialized Full Power Motors

For instance, the 2.0E motor provides max assistance of 280% and max motor power of 430 W while the most expensive 2.2 motor gives a 410% max assistance at max power of 560 W.
You pay big money for the stronger motor, and the stronger motor is less economical as it draws more power from the battery.
It is similar if you bought one VW car with 80 HP and another with 150 (just an example). Of course, you pay more for the stronger car and use more petrol.

So, the "Eco mode" is about 1x assistance.

It depends what motor and what Assist % you can set in the Specialized App under the Tune. For instance 35% ECO for Como 3.0 motor would be 0.35 *2.8 = 0.98 or about 1x assist. Correct.

Why ?

Use of Turbo depletes the battery very fast. That leads to frequent recharges, and each recharge is a step towards death in the battery lifetime. Given the UK's assistance speed limit of 15.5 mph, you would need Turbo on very steep climbs only, as Turbo used on the flat means almost immediate hitting 15.5 mph and maintaining that speed near to the cut-off. A bad way to use the e-bike, as the system cannot decide if you want to ride assisted below 15.5 mph or exceed that speed, and ride on leg power only with the motor not working. Setting ECO or SPORT keeps you below 15.5 mph with a solid motor assistance.

How do you know that exactly ?

As Jeremy tried to explain, there are two parameters that can be set in the Specialized App under Tune:

• Assist, for example 50% (0.50) is to be multiplied by max motor Assist (2.8x in case of the 2.0E motor). It gives the assistance of 0.5 * 2.8 = 1.4x. If your legs provide 100 W, the motor will help you with 140 W of assistance.
• Max Motor Power limit. If this second number is 50% (0.5) and the peak 2.0E motor power is 430 W, then the motor power is capped at 0.5 * 430 = 215 W. Whatever you do with your legs on the pedals, the motor won't provide more that 215 W. This parameter is meant to help saving battery power or making the ride more economical.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Specialized mid-drive riders should be aware that the official and unofficial terminology surrounding their ebike's operating system has evolved over the years. Hard to know sometimes which of the 4 parameters controlling the motor power calculation someone might be referring to.

The terminology I used in the post linked above was taken from the latest official documentation at the time. To my knowledge, that terminology still holds.

Final note: Specialized uses "Turbo" in 2 different ways in an ebike context— (1) as the name of its mid-drive operating system, and also (2) as the name for the highest assist mode. May have been a source of confusion earlier in this thread

 

[Palmthree]

You have read the marketing material

But I can see this on my screen ?
Anyway, I've never heard of a 2,8x assistance for my bike. It's really clearer this way...
So, I can simulate a Como SL pretty easily, I have just to tune a little bit.

In the mid-drive ebike operating system Specialized calls "Turbo", rider power (Pr) measured by the bike is the main determinant of the mechanical motor power (Pm) delivered to the crank. The exact relationship between Pm and Pr depends on (a) 2 independent parameters selected when you pick an assist mode like ECO or SPORT, and (b) 2 more independent parameters specific to your motor.

Very fun toy ! That pretty much sums up how I feel on the bike!

Use of Turbo depletes the battery very fast.

I don't like the "Turbo" very much. It does not feel very natural and i'm feeling the motor "start and stop" (also, the pedals seem to shake a little bit...)
I'm using it as you say : when it's really too hard.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

But I can see this on my screen ?

No, you cannot. You need to Tune your Como using the Specialized App, and do a little calculation for each Assist Level: ECO, SPORT, TURBO. Besides, I always leave TURBO at 100/100% for emergency. Last Saturday I rode my big Vado in a gravel race in a very hilly area. I basically used TURBO for each climb and was not pedalling on descents.

Anyway, I've never heard of a 2,8x assistance for my bike. It's really clearer this way...

The marketing information is really misleading. It is at least good Specialized has published facts in its Support website. Besides, the motor torque information is misleading there as well (it is the marketing data). The true data are Assist and Peak Motor Power published there.

So, I can simulate a Como SL pretty easily, I have just to tune a little bit.

Yes you can. Max Assist of 1.8x and Max Motor Power of 240 W. As I really need a lot of assistance, my SL settings are:

• ECO: 60/60%
• SPORT: 80/80%
• TURBO: 100/100%

I don't like the "Turbo" very much. It does not feel very natural and i'm feeling the motor "start and stop" (also, the pedals seem to shake a little bit...)
I'm using it as you say : when it's really too hard.

You are right. TURBO is for steep climbs only. I actually needed the full 3.2x Assist and 520 W motor peak power as well as mountain gearing on my Vado in the race, as the ascent grades could easily exceed 14% there! Just fancy, the speed on the ascents was as low as 10 km/h (6 mph).

 

[Chargeride]

The cutoff can be annoying and even dangerous if you dont keep your attention to your speed.
The effortless power gives you an distorted feedback of your ability.
A few times I have accelerated to overtake very slow moving cars, only to hit the wall of the cutout in an exposed position my mind thought I would only be in for a split second.

 

[Marcela]

Looked back at the point I changed the chain out on the como and started using gear oil for the chain lube for a reference, as I was curious how this would pan out. 980 miles when i changed it out, right now 2700 miles of around town riding, hauling groceries lot of the time. I'm easy on equipment. The chain is still not showing any wear on the gauge. When I decide to clean the drive train I garden hose it with a spray tip which cleans everything pretty well. Let it dry and reoil. Between wash downs I use a paper towel to wipe the side plates and rollers then reoil. Use sewing machine oil on the derailleur because it has the spout to reach the pins.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sooo...

A couple days ago, I started getting intermittent power loss on my Vado 6.0, followed by "NO BATTERY" messages on the display and corresponding messages on a connected Garmin 540. I could only sigh. This thread is over five years old now; as the Original Poster, I've learnt a lot over all those years...

• NO BATTERY = "Clean the battery and the frame socket terminals"
• LO BATT = "Replace the button battery in the display"

Bought an automotive electrical contact cleaner and a can of compressed air, cleaned the contacts and all is back to the normal!

I also removed Smart Sam tyres... Damn! Sometimes these wired bead tyres are a nightmare to remove from the rim! The front tyre clinched as strongly as I damaged it on the removal. No regrets! Both tyres replaced with Specialized Rhombus Pro 700x47. A little story follows:

Specialized now is replacing the older tyre "collection" with a new one. I cannot understand the urge of corporations to replace good proved products! None of the new Specialized gravel tyres is convincing to me in any sense, and also the sizing has changed. However, Specialized has a clearance sales on the older tyre models at a high discount. Not a long time ago, I bought a pair of Rhombus Pro in size 700x42 for my Vado SL. I'm delighted with the tyre. A very aggressive tread for hard terrain but by some miracle these tyres are silent on paved surfaces! Turned out, Specialized Europe has sold out all Rhombuses 47 mm online, so I found those in Specialized Warsaw. Guess what. I had to pay the full price! Yes, I got a special offer: buy four, pay for three No thank you, why should I need as many as four tyres? These do not hold well in storage!

Anyway, my Vado 6.0 is newly shod and awaiting a new adventure!

 

[Marcela]

Maybe applies to bicycle tire changes, on motorcycle tire changes, the rim has a channel in the middle that is smaller in diameter than the outer rim portion. The tire beads have to be in this channel to get the tire bead over the rim on the install and removal. So the portion that is 180 degrees from the part you are trying to pry over the rim has to be in the channel, both beads. Some are a real bear and heating in the sun helps I hear, soon to find out.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maybe applies to bicycle tire changes, on motorcycle tire changes, the rim has a channel in the middle that is smaller in diameter than the outer rim portion. The tire beads have to be in this channel to get the tire bead over the rim on the install and removal. So the portion that is 180 degrees from the part you are trying to pry over the rim has to be in the channel, both beads. Some are a real bear and heating in the sun helps I hear, soon to find out.

Marcela, what would you do if the bead is clinched as strongly on each side as you cannot pry it out from the rim hook? The side walls were extremely soft, we experience a very warm weather now.

 

[Base]

release all air from the tube. Push the valve upwards. Plase the wheel with the rim-conection point (oposite to the velve) on your belt buckle while the wheel is almost horizontal and pres with both palms left and right next to the valve just above the rim. The bead wil come loose and the top side, work your hands left and richt around the rim and yes you wil have sore hands ands the wil be black from the tyre and the rim.

trick works even for the Brompton wheels with marathon plus tyres... which would not really need an innertube.

when you've worked one side free to the middle you shpuld press the sidewall in the middle of the rim and work your hands back up to the vavle equally on both sides, than there is room to lift the side wall/bead over the rim and you could use a tyrelever to the rest of the tyre free, pull the innertube out of the tyre. flip the weel and pres on the other sidewall, that would go of easier and you could pull it over the wrong side of the rim once your are over the midway of the rim.

that would be the easiest way. for folding tyres you would not need tyre levers, for a steel-threaded tyre it is more convenient than pulling is of with your finger hooked in the tyre. (although the old guy in the workshop would do it like that)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

release all air from the tube. Push the valve upwards. Plase the wheel with the rim-conection point (oposite to the velve) on your belt buckle while the wheel is almost horizontal and pres with both palms left and right next to the valve just above the rim. The bead wil come loose

I wish you were together with me this morning.
What do you think I was doing?
I've been an e-biker for 5 1/2 years, owned as many as 4 different e-bikes and think I've learnt the bike technology enough so no need for your advice, thank you.
Specifically, I do not want to listen to any advice from a person who names a motor "a Drive Unit"
Yes, the offence was meant Please stay away from me, Base. I dislike you.

 

[Marcela]

Marcela, what would you do if the bead is clinched as strongly on each side as you cannot pry it out from the rim hook? The side walls were extremely soft, we experience a very warm weather now.

So you couldn't unseat the bead off the rim? Maybe a pair of channel locks, squeeze the tire together getting as close to the bead as possible. Never had that problem. Set it out in the sun. Run over it with something bigger

 

[Base]

right, didn't want to step on your toes. just wanted to share roughly 30 years of bikeshop experience. And that was a method driscribed for any reader.

Mahle calls the midmotor M40 Drive system and Brose calls their midmotor Drive unit like the other brands, so I might be sticking to the brands/branche names for these systems.

Besides your current comment, I have not met you so I do not have an opinion in the form of like or dislike to you or naybody on these type of forums. It simply does not bring anything good or bad to you as forum user.

Cheers

copy/paste from the consumer sites

Pure Power, Unmatched Weight.​

The new M40 full-power drive system offers full control, power and high efficiency even in demanding environments and even at high support levels and cadences. The M40 weighs just 2.5 kg and generates an impressive torque of 105 Nm and a peak power of 850 W.

Brose 48V drive system​

New system with completely revised architecture​

An excellent new 48 volt system and the optimization of the proven 36 volt system. We have made both possible!
Our complete system offers optimum interaction between Brose drive, control unit and battery.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So you couldn't unseat the bead off the rim? Maybe a pair of channel locks, squeeze the tire together getting as close to the bead as possible. Never had that problem. Set it out in the sun. Run over it with something bigger

Eventually, I used a big wrench that plumbers use That punctured the side wall, and the tyre ended in garbage. The other rim was a custom DT Swiss and I could unseat the bead, even if with some difficulty.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Besides your current comment, I have not met you so I do not have an opinion in the form of like or dislike to you or naybody on these type of forums. It simply does not bring anything good or bad to you as forum user.

I don't want to hear from you in my threads. No answer required.

As a Vado SL rider, you of course can participate in the Vado SL thread.

Specialized never calls a motor a drive unit. It is a Specialized thread. It is neither Mahle nor Brose. It is Specialized.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

right, didn't want to step on your toes. just wanted to share roughly 30 years of bikeshop experience. And that was a method driscribed for any reader.

Mahle calls the midmotor M40 Drive system and Brose calls their midmotor Drive unit like the other brands, so I might be sticking to the brands/branche names for these systems.

Besides your current comment, I have not met you so I do not have an opinion in the form of like or dislike to you or naybody on these type of forums. It simply does not bring anything good or bad to you as forum user.

Please keep doing what you've been doing, @Base . You're totally welcome here. I've learned a great deal from you and value your experience and perspectives. I'm sure the vast majority of members who've come across your posts feel the same.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let him preach to Bosch users...
Three days ago, I replaced wired tyres on a friend's bike. Now, the Dutch comes and teaches me how to remove the tyres from the wheel...