Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

[Art Deco]

It is interesting if the Como is Class 1 and the Vado Class 3 with the same motor. Does that mean they are software-suppressing its capacity on the Como 3.0?

They 'suppress' the speed on all turbos, just at different speeds. The weakness of the 1.2e motor isn't speed, but it's lacking the hill climbing torque of the 1.2 in return for better range on a smaller battery. A Como or Vado 3 will get very similar range to a Como or Vado 4 .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For all of you unhappy with Trigger Sport tyres on your Vados:

Ever take your Vado off road?

Levo SL Good point. I’ve now hijacked the thread, but my LBS knows how much I absolutely love my Creo SL, and they said even though I’m an MTB newbie I will also love the Levo SL to the point where I’ll ride it in snow! Is this true?

electricbikereview.com

 

[Marcela]

I read somewhere that it is the knobs on tires that squirm that causes rolling resistance. The very light Epic Expert Carbon 29er mtb I have falls into that category though easy to pedal and very light weight.

I took my Como down and up a loose rock grade that I previously had taken the Vado with it's Triggers to compare the performance of two different tires. I could tell no difference between the smooth Como tires or the Triggers from what I could remember.

Sometimes I wonder if the 'knobbed' tires thing is a little over blown.

 

[abpdx]

They 'suppress' the speed on all turbos, just at different speeds. The weakness of the 1.2e motor isn't speed, but it's lacking the hill climbing torque of the 1.2 in return for better range on a smaller battery. A Como or Vado 3 will get very similar range to a Como or Vado 4 .

This appears to be the case. I read somewhere that they have suppressed the torque on the “e” by about 15%

 

[citivas]

This appears to be the case. I read somewhere that they have suppressed the torque on the “e” by about 15%

So is the 1.2e motor really exactly the same 1.2 motor hardware just with firmware suppression?

 

[PaD]

So is the 1.2e motor really exactly the same 1.2 motor hardware just with firmware suppression?

1.2E is a Brose Drive C (perhaps with Specialized tuning) and the Brose C, S and T seems to be basically the same.

Product

Brose eBike drive units are perfect collaborations on the highest level of the mechanical components, software and the individual biker.

www.brose-ebike.com

When the S ( called 1.3 at Specialized) was introduced I think I read that some components were changed vs older T to make the S version more efficient.
The Mag versions are different.

 

[abpdx]

1.2E is a Brose Drive C (perhaps with Specialized tuning) and the Brose C, S and T seems to be basically the same.

Product

Brose eBike drive units are perfect collaborations on the highest level of the mechanical components, software and the individual biker.

www.brose-ebike.com

When the S ( called 1.3 at Specialized) was introduced I think I read that some components were changed vs older T to make the S version more efficient.
The Mag versions are different.

Brose 1.3 motor vs Brose 1.2E motor - EMTB Forums

I am going to do some testing in the coming weeks on the two motors. I have a sneaky suspicion that they are now identical motors.

www.emtbforums.com

.

E' stands for 'Economical'
It has the same hardware as 1.2 motor but it is tuned to consume less energy than 1.2 motor.
Its peak torque at 60 rpm is 60NM compare to 75NM of original 1.2 motor and 90NM of 1.3 motor.
It offers around %30 more ride time compared to regular 1.2 motor with identical battery also around %30 less power.

 

[citivas]

Brose 1.3 motor vs Brose 1.2E motor - EMTB Forums

I am going to do some testing in the coming weeks on the two motors. I have a sneaky suspicion that they are now identical motors.

www.emtbforums.com

.

E' stands for 'Economical'
It has the same hardware as 1.2 motor but it is tuned to consume less energy than 1.2 motor.
Its peak torque at 60 rpm is 60NM compare to 75NM of original 1.2 motor and 90NM of 1.3 motor.
It offers around %30 more ride time compared to regular 1.2 motor with identical battery also around %30 less power.

Thanks. I was aware of the specs (the the exact torque quoted on the 1.2 and 1.2e seem to vary by source), just curious whether the "tune" was entirely software or if there was any physical differences in the motor.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I read somewhere that it is the knobs on tires that squirm that causes rolling resistance.

The Smart Sam tyres are very well designed. No noise on blacktop but very good off-road grip. Very low rolling resistance on tarmac. I was so surprised! I think the virtue of these tyres results from very low knobs in the central tread with tall knobs at the side.

I could compare it with two types of Maxxis off-road tyres on the Trance E+. Minion DHF and High Roller II are proper downhill tyres. The rolling resistance and noise make them not practical for paved surfaces at all. Less aggressive Maxxis Rekon tyres are less noisy and roll easier but still these are not the best for road. Compared, Smart Sam appears to be an ideal tyre for mixed terrain: Quiet and easy on paved surfaces, aggressive for harsh terrain. Note: The 28 x 1.75" (47-622) is the only one that fits Vado with fenders.

 

[Art Deco]

So is the 1.2e motor really exactly the same 1.2 motor hardware just with firmware suppression?

just ask Ye Olde Specialized about that. I asked my lbs about that months ago, Crickets,

 

[citivas]

just ask Ye Olde Specialized about that. I asked my lbs about that months ago, Crickets,

I tried calling Specialized Customer Care about a couple questions when I first started researching the Turbos and got a message that you have to use email. Emailed a couple times, well over a week ago now, and never got any replies. The impression I get is Specialized has no interest in communicating directly with end users and wants all communication through LBS's.

 

[Art Deco]

Yep, with out a LBS involved, Specialized is not available.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Everyone riding the Vado: Consider the Smart Sam 28 x 1.75". I have realised I actually didn't need to buy the Trance E+, not for our Mazovian flatland (Hard terrain or mountain riding is another story...) A new report:

Ever take your Vado off road?

Schwalbe Smart Sam 28 x 1.75" on Vado 5: First impressions What a fun! (I could have concluded here) :) ------------------- The tyres thinner than Electrak 2.0 make a funny impression at the first sight, leaving a lot of clearance to the DryTech fender. The ride... No sound on blacktop. Low...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Brendon@OEB]

Let me help clear a few things up!

2019 Vado and Como 3.0 are both class 3 bikes with the 1.2 motor, 460wh battery. Identical to the 2020 Vado and Como 4.0 (como now comes with fenders), save for a larger battery.

2020 Vado and Como 3.0 are basically the 2019 2.0 models, all class 1. The 2020 model gets the 1.2e motor which isn't as powerful as the 1.2 motor

Does that help?

 

[citivas]

Let me help clear a few things up!

2019 Vado and Como 3.0 are both class 3 bikes with the 1.2 motor, 460wh battery. Identical to the 2020 Vado and Como 4.0 (como now comes with fenders), save for a larger battery.

2020 Vado and Como 3.0 are basically the 2019 2.0 models, all class 1. The 2020 model gets the 1.2e motor which isn't as powerful as the 1.2 motor

Does that help?

The Vado 3.0 I saw and test road was promoted as the 2021 unit and had the same blue color of that model year from their website where it's listed as "new" and 2021 model year and it had a Class 3 sticker on it.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

The Vado 3.0 I saw and test road was promoted as the 2021 unit and had the same blue color of that model year from their website where it's listed as "new" and 2021 model year and it had a Class 3 sticker on it.

"Storm Grey" is the same color for 2019 and 2020, adds to the confusion. Bikes built late in model year might actually be the next year. I'm not sure about the details about the bike at that shop.

The diag software we use can be used to change the classification of bikes but we're not authorized to do so as they would violate all sorts of stuff. Technically I can make a 2019 Como 2.0, class 1, and make it a class 3 bike. At the cost of my dealership that is...

 

[GuruUno]

I tried calling Specialized Customer Care about a couple questions when I first started researching the Turbos and got a message that you have to use email. Emailed a couple times, well over a week ago now, and never got any replies. The impression I get is Specialized has no interest in communicating directly with end users and wants all communication through LBS's.

This is the exact same concerns I have and had expressed here multiple times.
I'm still at the point where there is no need for any interaction (whew), but quite frankly, (as an example/reference point) if LBS #1 and LBS#2 are woefully un-educated, staff are young kids who know "normal" bikes but not certified, trained or coached in knowing about the newer technology of the e-bike world and maybe only 1 person in each store or independent shop is the only person who may have limited knowledge, or even the reformed alcoholic who cannot get a drivers license who may be very experienced with "normal' bikes, than please tell me how one is supposed to rely upon THOSE representatives of the product being considered for purchase (whether it be a $2500 or $14,000 bike), then how tell me am I supposed to base that persons professional knowledge and experience to base a purchasing decision, AND then have any future concerns about ANY future serviceability capabilities?

If the "mother ship" is not available, and you have to rely upon sub-standard LBS'es, it lends validation to the plethora of messages in these forums abut all kinds of horror stories and experiences.

Don't get me wrong, I love the bike, would buy a new on in a heart beat, I've had better experience with the performance, use and dependability than with my previous 3 Trek e-bikes and iZip e-bike, but nonetheless, it's the nightmare stories like referenced about zero replies from anyone but the LBS's as the end all for anything.

That is crazy. Like this forum and possibly another being the only avenue of getting any information?

Pre-sales information is key. Reading bicycle magazine reviews does nothing, they can sometimes be biased. Hands on experience, which is what is gained here on these forums, is probably the most valuable data that can be used to help make decisions. And Corporate availability for customers is key to making a company a shining example of a professional one. Not like when your local ISP is on the fritz and you wind up filing a complaint with the BPU or Consumer Fraud and Protection to get an answer or resolve to a situation.

The point of this blurb is to concur with the original post by Citivas....

 

[citivas]

This is the exact same concerns I have and had expressed here multiple times.
I'm still at the point where there is no need for any interaction (whew), but quite frankly, (as an example/reference point) if LBS #1 and LBS#2 are woefully un-educated, staff are young kids who know "normal" bikes but not certified, trained or coached in knowing about the newer technology of the e-bike world and maybe only 1 person in each store or independent shop is the only person who may have limited knowledge, or even the reformed alcoholic who cannot get a drivers license who may be very experienced with "normal' bikes, than please tell me how one is supposed to rely upon THOSE representatives of the product being considered for purchase (whether it be a $2500 or $14,000 bike), then how tell me am I supposed to base that persons professional knowledge and experience to base a purchasing decision, AND then have any future concerns about ANY future serviceability capabilities?

If the "mother ship" is not available, and you have to rely upon sub-standard LBS'es, it lends validation to the plethora of messages in these forums abut all kinds of horror stories and experiences.

Don't get me wrong, I love the bike, would buy a new on in a heart beat, I've had better experience with the performance, use and dependability than with my previous 3 Trek e-bikes and iZip e-bike, but nonetheless, it's the nightmare stories like referenced about zero replies from anyone but the LBS's as the end all for anything.

That is crazy. Like this forum and possibly another being the only avenue of getting any information?

Pre-sales information is key. Reading bicycle magazine reviews does nothing, they can sometimes be biased. Hands on experience, which is what is gained here on these forums, is probably the most valuable data that can be used to help make decisions. And Corporate availability for customers is key to making a company a shining example of a professional one. Not like when your local ISP is on the fritz and you wind up filing a complaint with the BPU or Consumer Fraud and Protection to get an answer or resolve to a situation.

The point of this blurb is to concur with the original post by Citivas....

I agree I was not impressed by Specialized customer service. And if all else had been equal in terms of availability of equivalent bikes and LBS availability for other brands, that probably would have swayed me away from them. But there's a much less robust Trek and Giant LBS network around me, with less stocked or well-informed stores even when I did try. And all the other brands were way behind that. I tried looking up Bull and was going to have to commute an hour to the nearest LBS listed on their site. By comparison, I visited 3 Specialized LBS's all within 30 minutes that all had inventory.

In general customer service isn't what it used to me. Google is one of the largest companies in the world and has for some time now sold physical consumer products that require support -- phones, connected home devices, security devices, etc. But their customer service is non-existent. There literally is no phone support, no physical store support and you're left only with chat or email. In my experience their chat support is almost useless and they usually ignore their email support entirely. This is a company that practically prints cash, but they can't bother to support their products. Or there's AT&T who is even worse. When my mother (lived alone) died and I needed to cancel her phone and DirecTV service (owned by AT&T), they transferred me to a special "bereavement" department that was supposedly to specifically exist to help discontinue services of deceased people. What they really did was force me to listen to over 20 minutes of sales pitches for other services before they would start processing the cancelations. They started by pitching other services for my dead mother's residence, and when I pointed out that made no sense they forced me to listen to pitched on services for myself -- internet, mobile phone and DirecTV. When I would interrupt to say I'm not interested in anything and just want to cancel they said they could not do so until they ran through their script of options and my only alternative would be to hang up and go through it all again with someone else.

There certainly are companies with decent, ethical customer service, but they are more and more rare.

 

[SoCalDave]

I agree I was not impressed by Specialized customer service. And if all else had been equal in terms of availability of equivalent bikes and LBS availability for other brands, that probably would have swayed me away from them. But there's a much less robust Trek and Giant LBS network around me, with less stocked or well-informed stores even when I did try. And all the other brands were way behind that. I tried looking up Bull and was going to have to commute an hour to the nearest LBS listed on their site. By comparison, I visited 3 Specialized LBS's all within 30 minutes that all had inventory.

In general customer service isn't what it used to me. Google is one of the largest companies in the world and has for some time now sold physical consumer products that require support -- phones, connected home devices, security devices, etc. But their customer service is non-existent. There literally is no phone support, no physical store support and you're left only with chat or email. In my experience their chat support is almost useless and they usually ignore their email support entirely. This is a company that practically prints cash, but they can't bother to support their products. Or there's AT&T who is even worse. When my mother (lived alone) died and I needed to cancel her phone and DirecTV service (owned by AT&T), they transferred me to a special "bereavement" department that was supposedly to specifically exist to help discontinue services of deceased people. What they really did was force me to listen to over 20 minutes of sales pitches for other services before they would start processing the cancelations. They started by pitching other services for my dead mother's residence, and when I pointed out that made no sense they forced me to listen to pitched on services for myself -- internet, mobile phone and DirecTV. When I would interrupt to say I'm not interested in anything and just want to cancel they said they could not do so until they ran through their script of options and my only alternative would be to hang up and go through it all again with someone else.

There certainly are companies with decent, ethical customer service, but they are more and more rare.

Read “On the Clock” by Emily Guendelsberger, a journalist who took on jobs at an Amazon warehouse, a McDonalds and an AT&T call center. The AT&T support call center gets funded by what they up sell. When you read how de-humanizing it is for the people who work there, it is just sickening.

 

[GuruUno]

Well, in any event, it's a bit refreshing to be aware that I'm not the only one who feels that something is lacking.
Again, I can say, for whatever it is worth, Trek is far superior to it's customer service and end user communication than any bike manufacturer I've ever dealt with.
Whether or not there is any previous desire to search the forums (yes, I do know this ), you will see that I, as a previous owner of multiple Trek e-bikes had had past experience with their support process. I can say it was a far superior experience, more than one might ever expect, and regardless of whether or not I was still left with the fuzzy, warm, "I still Love You" feeling after all of their attempts to keep me a happy camper are relevant or not, the point of my conveyance is that if Trek can.....why not Specialized?
It is really, really scary that if I want to possibly consider another $6k to $10/$12k e-bike, that I need to rely on only a LBS and their "supposed" knowledge of supporting me ....'after the sale'.

Much like almost anything else, everyone is eager to make the sale, then they fall flat on their face when support is needed.

I can (and am) writing a book, after 30+ years of doing IT Support and working for some of the biggest companies in the world, having seen 1st hand the reasoning behind my jaded, biased and 'bad taste left in my mouth' attitude afterwards.

Just sayin'