Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[George S.]

At the beginning of the Kickstarter campaign Mr. Sondors promised to answer questions. I asked if anything from the old IGG campaign could affect whether people in this campaign get their bikes. I asked it here, but Court and Storm are friends. I never got an answer and that was the end of that.

I think Storm has gotten a pass this time. The campaign is over. Maybe now we can ask some obvious questions, but I doubt it. With the money he pulled in from Kickstarter, he can't pay a half million dollar judgment, so then what?

 

[wa5]

Hmmm, anybody who says anything against the bike is probably a competitor, anybody who questions anything about the bike or its creator must be a troll and nasty insults against me and my mate the Pomgolian... bikegut, cut the negative vibes y'all.

 

[scmike]

At the beginning of the Kickstarter campaign Mr. Sondors promised to answer questions. I asked if anything from the old IGG campaign could affect whether people in this campaign get their bikes. I asked it here, but Court and Storm are friends. I never got an answer and that was the end of that.

I think Storm has gotten a pass this time. The campaign is over. Maybe now we can ask some obvious questions, but I doubt it. With the money he pulled in from Kickstarter, he can't pay a half million dollar judgment, so then what?

Maybe Storm answered some of your questions here... http://windycitylive.com/Storm-Sondors-builds-electric-bike/9548926

 

[George S.]

Maybe Storm answered some of your questions here... http://windycitylive.com/Storm-Sondors-builds-electric-bike/9548926

I think I understand Mr. Sondors and his view of the thing. Unfortunately, as someone who followed the campaign since back in January, before the launch on IGG, it's troubling.

Basically Mr. Sondors signed a contract for a Storm bike promo campaign with Agency 2.0, and A2 is almost a part of IGG. The campaign was slick and not very honest, but it was very successful. Mr. Sondors suggests the bike sells itself, but he signed a contract and most people would say Agency sold the bike with the campaign. A2 knew how to get stuff in the media, the social media stuff. Sondors admits he was 'off line'.

It just isn't clear what role Hopp played in making the prototypes, for knowing what you have to do.

It just isn't clear why the partners became enemies. When Mr. Sondors suggests that the bike, and the enormous amount of money raised, was all his doing? Is that convincing?

Agency and Storm seem to agree there was a contract, and the basic reading of that contract suggests Mr. Sondors owes Mr Olenik around a half million dollars. The Kickstarter campaign raised well over a million, but the profits would not cover the potential liability.

It's in litigation and people usually don't talk about stuff that is in the courts.

People like the bike. Mr. Sondors educated people about making value ebikes. The Storm ebike probably changed the industry forever. Should we give all the credit to Sondors?

 

[flymeaway]

The Storm ebike probably changed the industry forever

Hi George,

I would disagree that the impact was that substantial. There will always be a population that looks for low cost (perceived value?). Crowd funding seems to fill the need. The Sondors bike campaign proved that you could bypass the normal infrastructure necessary to operate an ongoing distribution system, drive the cost of a Chinese produce bike to a significantly lower price through volume, and get a lot of press. As I look at the future of electric bikes I see the $1,000-$2,000 segment supported by dealers and individual unique brands where most people will buy. What I see waning is the very top end as more high quality well engineered less expensive options are introduced.

Court J.

 

[one4torque]

I do wonder why the chinese NEED sondors.... to access global markets? I mean they build all of this stuff in CHina........ so why can't they learn from this crowd funding exercise and gain access to these markets them selves?

Now that would be a game-changer.

 

[flymeaway]

I do wonder why the chinese NEED sondor

They don't. He's another buyer with a bucket of cash. Apparently most Chinese manufacturers are currently happy to do the manufacturing and let the sale, distribution and repair be done by other partners/companies. Much of what the world consumes in bicycles and components are already made in China. The one example of a Taiwan manufacturer , Giant, that is vertically integrated gives mainland Chinese manufacturers an example of what they might also gain by moving beyond manufacturing into sales and distribution.

Court J.

PS. You can buy inexpensive electric bikes at Wal-Mart. Perhaps Chinese manufacturers are satisfied to let huge established retailers handle sales?

 

[George S.]

I do wonder why the chinese NEED sondors.... to access global markets? I mean they build all of this stuff in CHina........ so why can't they learn from this crowd funding exercise and gain access to these markets them selves?

Now that would be a game-changer.

The people who run the Ali's, Alibaba and AliExpress, want to do that. The bikes that people in the US want are not really what the Chinese buy, since the average Chinese ebike is around $500, the scooter style. So how do they ramp up sales into the US, where sales are pretty meager anyway. It's like what Karl at ElectricFatbike points out. The Chinese buy millions of Bafang mid-drives, and we buy tens of thousands. It's just not that important.

I've lost my ability to be hyped about ebikes. It's so easy to get the parts, get a battery, and put it together, The cost is minimal. Maybe the 28 mph ebike will ignite something with young people, but I'm happy with what is out there right now. I agree with Court J that the top end is a tough sell. If you want a Speed Pedelec from Haibike, it's going to be $6,000. Too much.

I bought a smartphone from China, but a Korean LG. You see a lot of high spec phones, though, that are made in China, like Meizu. On Aliexpress, they sometimes show sales in the thousands, overseas sales. Ebikes are just so tiny a market, overseas. I think it's stuff like smartphones where the Chinese are focused.

 

[one4torque]

I got to thinking this evening perhaps the ebike marketing is all wrong here in the states. What if we ran this business model:::

Open up an ebike commute club/business from the burbs to downtown houston for example......
Pre-define the route.
Set a time for departure and return as a group for safety,
Sell a set pkg in which the shop maintains,
the perk is the suburbanite, get's to ride to/from work on an ebike,
get healthy,
ride in a club type atmosphere,
get the good green feeling..
perhaps link this to a city level green initiative in which there are special green ebike paths..... and tax deducts for ebike purchase..

Change the system and the people will just love to ride an ebike to/from work for an hour VS stuck in houston traffic for the same distance and same time......


Am I nuts?

 

[one4torque]

I just got back from my evening sondors ride.... 30 miles..... avg 17.8mph, top speed 28.8 mph, 102mins...... boy would I have loved to do this to/from work instead of AFTER work
Super jealous of you guys in cali/ore who get to ebike to /from work. Houston stinks!

 

[Ann M.]

Aah, yes! 14T, I grew up in Houston and as that city developed all of the various neighborhoods were kept separate. Literally, with brick walls and fences where connecting streets were unnaturally ended. Read what you want into that; however, that meant that safer neighborhood routes were abruptly disrupted and generally would force me and other bike commuters onto more busy streets with high speed car traffic and few bike lanes. Not exactly encouraging for alternative transportation! I hear that the bike routes are improving but there's not much that can be done to change neighborhood designs that date back to the 40's & 50's.

 

[one4torque]

Flymeaway - thx for the insight. From my exp with chinese mfg (in heavy ind), they are keen to reach int'l mkts. Perhaps ebikes are different. Or perhaps there is an opp there for sondors knock-offs... IE. ... rather than try to setup a brick-mourtor shop in USA....... help a china mfr or multi mfr's sell/svc/repair bikes abroad...... basically rep the bikes for them, but as a complete desireable pkg..... hmmm kind of like sondors.

Annm - yeah, I envision an ebike lane from each burb to downtown....... with concrete barriers left right for safety....... (I'm dreaming )

 

[JoePah]

Sondors, like a lot of other American businesses designed a product that is very marketable, and went and found the cheapest manufacturer, which is China right now.

Chinese mass markets thru a lot of companies like Walmart, and they are buying Western Companies to front their products as well.

I think they've figured it out!

 

[Bikeguy]

Hmmm, anybody who says anything against the bike is probably a competitor, anybody who questions anything about the bike or its creator must be a troll and nasty insults against me and my mate the Pomgolian... bikegut, cut the negative vibes y'all.

So after 6 months of mud slinging all over the internet and in the campaign comments section, now that all your claims have been proven wrong and there is nothing lef to say. Now you want everyone to play nice.
Sure guess I can do that if you and the others can.

 

[PowerMe]

People, by and large, seem happy with their perk. No, not *everyone,* certainly not anyone who hasn't gotten their 'perk,' but a larger percentage of people than was initially anticipated appear to be satisfied.

The obsession with this campaign, which has continued, might lead one to conclude that it's not about the bike or the campaign or even the campaign owner, it's really about obsessed and/or bored people looking for a cause to obsess about, finding their way to this particular thing, and then holding on for dear life. The Internet is full of crazies, this is just one more example.

 

[Hurley]

How ironic...

 

[jazz]

 

[one4torque]

hmmm that's interesting math

$499 bike
$200 shipping
$250 front dir drive motor
$350 battery for front motor
$150 fendors
$20 180mm disc
$8 180mm disc adaptor

I'm getting up there

 

[PowerMe]

Many of us increase the cost of our eBikes with various additions.

- lights
- bells or horns
- fenders (esp MTB type bikes)
- different seats
- Thudbuster or BodyFloat type seatposts
- Racks, bags, car racks

Just to name a few...

Very easy to keep modding and spending.

 

[pxpaulx]

hmmm that's interesting math

$499 bike
$200 shipping
$250 front dir drive motor
$350 battery for front motor
$150 fendors
$20 180mm disc
$8 180mm disc adaptor

I'm getting up there

Not at all - some people just end up enjoying tinkering as much as riding! This weekend on my Radrover (and bikes direct boris...) I swapped out 3 total tires, moved the forks from one bike to another, moved the disc brakes between bikes, had to re-center my rear rack to accommodate the new disc brakes on the radrover, and changed the freewheel on the radrover as well! That included having to drill out the freewheel removal tool because the axle on the rear motor is way thicker and longer than a standard bike. I had FUN!!! It sure sounds like you are doing the same