Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

pxpaulx said:
Then the buyers will be happy. These bikes were bought through a middle man and get no support, direct from China. That is what was paid for, and what they are getting. Those who expect the same support as their lbs will be out of luck.

That is what you get for five hundred bucks.
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You forgot to include a few things. It's important to give credit where credit is due.

As an added bonus for their $500, buyers get the following extras (not at no additional charge):

Additional $194 ($247 international) in inflated shipping fees, after Ivars previously "guaranteeing" the final tally would be "much lower";
Speaking of inflated - how about those specs? ;)
Months of additional wait time added to the originally promised delivery date of May 2015, with no end in sight and no reason offered for the delays. Many will be piloting mobility scooters before they get to ride the ebike they bought;
The colourful ongoing saga of a proven fraud artist and deadbeat;
Numerous other broken promises, see prior posts in this thread for details;
Stonewalling of customers who have questions or concerns;
The online attentions of an Astroturfing brigade, for those who dare post anything negative about the project;
In many countries, grossly inflated illegal brokerage fees, typically half the value of the item, charged at the door by UPS.
(UPS - the sleaziest courier on the planet, birds of a feather)
Possibly for some buyers, the additional cost of retrofitting their brand new ebike to comply with local regulations so that it will be road legal. That's assuming it's allowed through Customs.

I'm sure Ivars & Co. will be generously doling out more of these "not-so-freebies" in the months to come.

Yes, I understand the concept of "you get what you pay for". Speaking for myself, I would have been happy with just the ebike that was originally advertised, even if it's late. That's what *I* paid for.
 
Yan Lyansky said:
FYI the dimensional weight is 89lbs. It is not the actual weight of the box. All my bikes get a dim weight of 75lbs even though they weigh about 30lbs.

Thanks,
Yan
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This is a fair point however we know for sure the bike weighs in at the very least, with battery, nearly 60 lbs, and with a 'never in a million years 90 minute battery charger" it will be more again - the screenshot clearly stated package weight.

Yan, in brief I approached Sondors initially with a view to buying multiple units and sought clarification about the aspects of importing to the UK - and I was banned from an FB page long before the ensuing firestorm - EU funders face 15% duty, 20% vat and 48% anti-dumping fees on the suggested value of the bike $1299.

I will have to bear being called a hater etc. for stating simple facts which I feel everyone should know - fair enough some people do not expect the bike to have anywhere near the performance advertised and yes they are right, for others they will be disappointed.

I bought a BMW Cruise ebike and it it what it is described as, that is the way I do business.
 
Oh my God, they put the front brake cable into the left lever instead of the right... That would make Sondors something akin to a war criminal... IF those of us warning against Sondors were anywhere near as anal as those who are concerned about our concerns were right... :)

Blue bike looks ok. didn't think I'd like that colour, still reckon the yellow and orange is the pick.
They forgot to mention mounting the handlebars in the video...
 
EULITTLB said:
This is a fair point however we know for sure the bike weighs in at the very least, with battery, nearly 60 lbs, and with a 'never in a million years 90 minute battery charger" it will be more again - the screenshot clearly stated package weight.

Yan, in brief I approached Sondors initially with a view to buying multiple units and sought clarification about the aspects of importing to the UK - and I was banned from an FB page long before the ensuing firestorm - EU funders face 15% duty, 20% vat and 48% anti-dumping fees on the suggested value of the bike $1299.

I will have to bear being called a hater etc. for stating simple facts which I feel everyone should know - fair enough some people do not expect the bike to have anywhere near the performance advertised and yes they are right, for others they will be disappointed.

I bought a BMW Cruise ebike and it it what it is described as, that is the way I do business.
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Ian,

American's have no idea of the duty structure in Europe, I am sure Storm had no clue on the costs at the beginning. You do not seem objective....and worse are looking for an excuse to bad mouth Storm. FYI it is not healthy for you to carry around so much negative energy. Many times this manifests in breathing issues ( lungs ).

I hope Storm has found a better way to do things while on this path. I am sure he has been through alot of problems so far in his life...as you have posted several times.

Thanks,
Yan
 
LOL Negative energy Yan?!?! This isn’t the central issue for me in my life, do I give you sob stories of things I am enduring or have endured in my life? Or do I instead release an article about Aspergers to garner public sympathy?

I am not the one selling an bike worldwide - if I want to buy from the USA and the seller offers globals shipping then the onus is on them to advise about legal specification and duties I am due.

I don’t like being ripped off or misled, and neither do I bad-mouth Storm - I bad-mouth the campaign and the way it has been run and people have been misled, this is consistent with your perspective.

Where have I posted several times he has been through a lot of problems in his life? My focus is on this campaign, where the original PR Company is suing him for non-payment!!!
 
This camapaign has generated a lot of pathology, people doing self-destructive things. Over here at EBR people are mixing outright claims of fraud with misunderstandings of how the CF is structured. People have no rights. They react badly when things go awry.

The business problems with this campaign are farce or tragedy. Storm apparently had access to the money. The other partner apparently thought they could avoid liability issues if they were just working for Storm. Ah, well, that was not such a good idea. Storm wrote bad checks and things escalated. But everything in this campaign is arranged to avoid legal liabilities. People will have to argue about how much regulation is enough, but right now people are looking to avoid the legal system at almost any cost. But Agency ended up with an interesting outcome. No legal liability. No money.

So now 'they' (not clear who 'they' is) have sold a lot of bikes but, there is no reason to believe they can build any kind of business out of this. What motivates Storm is difficult to assess. The Agency 2.0 people seem to be locked into a pattern where they won't get much of anything.

At least we can assess the bikes, if they start showing up tomorrow. Maybe that will determine how some of this plays out. The business structure behind these bikes is not functional.

I think it would be better if they used a different model, not a developmental model. Just take orders for a product, but specify exactly what will be built. Just raise enough money to achieve some scale, but give people some rights and make it clear what they will get.

I'm still looking at CF campaigns with bikes I don't really like, bikes that don't fit in the 'market' very well. For now, I am sticking with kits and bikes I buy, stuff that I understand.

Chill.
 
EULITTLB said:
This is a fair point however we know for sure the bike weighs in at the very least, with battery, nearly 60 lbs, and with a 'never in a million years 90 minute battery charger" it will be more again - the screenshot clearly stated package weight.
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My ebike with it's battery installed weighs nearly 60 lbs as well, and it's package weight was estimated way over 60lbs. You think this ebike suddenly gained another 20+ lbs?
 
Engine spec has changed, PowerMe, it now has a bigger motor, I'm just guessing it will be heavier
 
I agree Trev, but all will be sorted when the first few ebikes land - what is and what isn't - will be interested how the EU customs handle the charges they are hot on everything I handle with my business which ships worldwide- warranty repairs from Hong Kong? I have to fill out forms and evidence return shipment - duties, vat and anti-dumping will be levied on deliveries into the EU. A few bikes landing in the USA might settle nerves but this story is way from over IMHO - I trust my intuition on this one
 
PowerMe said:
My ebike with it's battery installed weighs nearly 60 lbs as well, and it's package weight was estimated way over 60lbs. You think this ebike suddenly gained another 20+ lbs?
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Possibly - if it is dimensional weight so be it, I advised that the shipping docket stated package weight 89Ibs - it did not state anything else.

You will recall when manufacturing was all in place in Feb 15 that the bike weighed 45Ibs.... Nothing will surprise me, certainly when the bikes hit the EU, or if they do. It is all clock and daggers, no transparency or honesty whatsoever - just hope Court gets a bike soon so he can cut through all the hogwash.
 
Looks like Sondors is going to make the trolls heads explode... Delivering on time, 46 updates in 40 months, and a bike that just about everyone would like to own; for $499!

Time and time again all the libelous statements have proven to be lies and without merit...

We know who the winners are.
 
Not one person paid out only $499 and will (might) get a bike, the least you could pay for a bike is $693, now the bike cant be had for less than $843 in the US.

I guess its easy for you to say Storm kept his promises, He's like big brother, if a statement doesn't fit the facts, just change it and rely on owners group members employing double think for the rest... Storm hasn't delivered on time, he originally promised May delivery.
 
Kids have got the keyboards again.

Estimated delivery May 2015.

So now on July 6th a few bikes may be delivered to customers in the U.S.A. only which are far removed from the launch spec of Feb 2015. Let's wait until 7500 bikes have been delivered globally - September/October 2015?

And JoePah wants to label detractors as trolls and claims that Ivars has lived up to all his promises.

Why do I bother?
 
If / when Storm defaults on his debt to Agency 2.0 could this campaign still be considered a success? I don't know that I would be comfortable sponging on somebody else in order to receive a bike. would be akin to knowingly purchasing stolen goods I reckon.
 
wa5 said:
If / when Storm defaults on his debt to Agency 2.0 could this campaign still be considered a success? I don't know that I would be comfortable sponging on somebody else in order to receive a bike. would be akin to knowingly purchasing stolen goods I reckon.
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Trev, I think as long as something is delivered with two wheels such will be the relief that Ivars will be labelled the Messiah - problem is I think it will be 2-3 months before some people get something in return for their donations - 7500 bikes made and shipped globally? Never in a million years. You know it and I know it, there will be a sting-in-the-tail around the corner I am afraid.
 
I made a 'donation' to a CF project almost 3 months ago and delivery is not expected until Sept 2015, and that's if all goes well. That's a minimum of 6 months after my donation, for those who have trouble counting. Average frequency of updates from the campaign owners: once a month.
 
@ Powerme, I funded Trackr in Jan 2015 and only have received 3 of the 8 I ordered (the more advanced ones are still to come).

I have ordered Lily too, Jan 2016 delivery apparently - (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

However Sondors claimed he had a capacity of 12-14000 bikes a month at the outset of the Campaign with manufacturing all in place for delivery May 2015.

I am not the one telling porkies, he is.
 
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