Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

I don't know whether Ivars changed his name legally to Storm or he just chose to go by that name... Stuart, I think the box comes in three pieces (two sides and one centre section. )
 
FTC Complaint said:
There are many problems with the Storm product, his representations, PL insurance, & the business plan
There are many problems with the Sondors campaign including lack of communication and a lawsuit
Click to expand...

What? This is the very first time we're hearing of this! (in the last 60 min)
 
If you ask for a refund there is no assurance you will get one. There are some advantages to putting your request in writing.

The path of least resistance for a refund is to go through your credit card.

These are letter templates.

IGG will tell you to go through the campaign. So;
This is the service address of record for the campaign (send any letter certified, return receipt);

Kent M. Walker
Lewis Kohn and Walker LLP
Regarding Storm Sondors
15030 Avenue of Science, Suite 201
San Diego, CA 92128

Mr. Walker

I am sending this letter to you because it is impossible to contact Mr. Sondors directly.

On {this date} I paid {x dollars} for the purchase of a Sondors ebike. I would like to obtain a refund at this time. There are many issues and concerns with this campaign to justify my request to which you are aware.


You can also ask IGG

Indiegogo
965 Mission Street, 6th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94103-2921

I would like your organization to facilitate a refund for my purchase of a Sondors ebike. There are many issues and concerns with this campaign, and your organization is in the best position to protect my rights and to facilitate my refund. I paid xxx on this date..
 
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I don't know what you were all worrying about - shipping is still on track for this Month, forget about the fact that estimated delivery was May 2015 - the camera still has not managed to take any pictures to substantiate that assembly is taking place of even...... well in place of even...... well none. Remember the shipping guarantee of less than $194 for US customers etc.... which would go down as volume of sales increased.... at one stage MUCH LESS......... hmmmm
 
There is some indication on IGG that the "first wave will ship in May." Best to ask for a refund before you get a product and have no recourse as a result; or remain a "creditor" by waiting for subsequent waves

Kent M. Walker
Lewis Kohn and Walker LLP
Regarding Storm Sondors
15030 Avenue of Science, Suite 201
San Diego, CA 92128

Mr. Walker

I am sending this letter to you because it is impossible to contact Mr. Sondors directly.

On {this date} I paid {x dollars} for the purchase of a Sondors ebike. I would like to obtain a refund at this time. There are many issues and concerns with this campaign to justify my request to which you are aware.

On another note:

--As of today, Paypal has agreed to reformative measures regarding dispute resolution;
http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201505_cfpb_consent-order-paypal.pdf

--Make sure you asked Paypal for a refund
 
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(QUOTE MORE OF STORMS EMPTY PROMISES)
6 hours ago
Hi Sondors eBike Backers! Here are few bits of info while we're in the final stages getting everything ready to ship this month.

Wave 1 is still on track to ship this month (from China then to a port near you then via UPS to your doorstep) and we'll have more pics soon.

Wave 2 is still set to start shipping in August.

Wave 3 is the new added wave that starts shipping in October; apologies for anyone who thought their August date was being moved to October.

Wheel rims are aluminum (this is much better than metal/steel due to being lighter and corrosion resistant) with the orange rims (yellow bike) being anodized. All other bike rims are painted.

More to come!
(END QUOTE OF STORMS EMPTY PROMISES)

Storm Sucks.
 
wa5 said:
(QUOTE MORE OF STORMS EMPTY PROMISES)
6 hours ago
Click to expand...

It will really confuse things if he delivers (a few or all) of the bikes. Agency 2.0 would then be the "last party" to get paid. Thereafter the consumers that actually got bikes will have no recourse. Delivery of the bikes changes the order of the disaster, not the disaster itself.
 
IGG would insist that bikes are first delivered to those customers with insurance
 
The logistics of shipping 7000 bikes for distribution to one port alone is a handful.

So let's see, a half a container to Sydney, 1 container to Le Havre, 3 containers to Long Beach, 1 to Seattle, 2 to Baltimore etc.. Oh and then get the containers unloaded and to the UPS distribution center with the correct bar codes and addresses and don't forget the batteries! The amount of people it would take to pull it off this way is mind boggling. I seriously don't think they have a clue.

If they did they would just ship them all to one US port on one ship and contract with one company to expedite them through customs and distribution to UPS, who I wouldn't use to begin with. It would be much easier to control. Bonus points if someone actually looks at them long enough to determine if the right color is going to the right customer and that the final shipping address is correct. Never mind opening all the boxes and actually doing an active QC.

Scheduled to ship in May though, just as promised!
 
I hear only good things about ProdecoTech, and their fearless leader Robert Provost seems like a giant amongst men. A fine human being, honest and True, I don't believe he has ever been convicted of fraud or passed bad checks, or needed to get a loan to get his borrowed car out of the lot.
 
FTC Complaint said:
1) He will USP label each box to each individual customer at the factory
2) They bikes will be picked up (in random order and to random destination) by UPS
Click to expand...

(1) I rest my case. It just takes a simple mistake to send things off into the unknown.
(2) That is their biggest mistake. Brown Santa does not have the best track record for delivering the goods. Nor the worst to be fair. But with $194 domestic and $250 international in hand Sondors can afford to enlist a shipping fulfillment genius.

FTC Complaint said:
Also: the Storm-IGG chat board just got cleaned up; I guess it was too embarrassing to allow that mess to continue.
Click to expand...

Now if TV, ebike4all and IG would stop their embarrassing behavior the comment section would be able to run its due course. The Sondorities claim 650 members on FB which is a measly 10% of the total funders who I am guessing at least another 10% would welcome a chance to make comment on their questions/concerns without fear of retribution and disgust of the $1 noisemakers. See: http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/ebr-etiquette-please-be-kind.1952/#post-22953

.
 
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Of those 650 odd members (some of them very odd indeed) there are around 15 that post constantly on IGG .. so around 2.5 percent of the extremist owners group. or 0.25 of all owners.

I'll keep posting there (as Theodore Voltaire) as long as I can. somebody has to let potential funders know what they are getting into.
 
stevenast said:
Excellent, premium service. One problem solved!
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. UPS is being sued in a class action in Canada as we speak. This is due to their illegal gouging/extortion of customers at the door, for grossly inflated "brokerage fees". UPS will charge $20 or more on a package whose legitimate customs brokerage fee is more like $2. They also add a hidden "shipping preparation fee". To add insult to injury, after gouging people at the door they then mail them a second bill for the same shipment, and claim they "never got" the first payment. This has happened to me twice in the last few months. I now notify retailers that any UPS package arriving at my door will be refused.

I've already emailed the Ivars crew to notify them of this issue and request they mark the box "self-clear" so I can pay Customs directly and bypass the UPS scam. No reply yet. If a large box arrives at my door from UPS they'll be told to send it back to China. I'm not giving UPS several hundred dollars at the door when they've already got their $275 from me.
 
dont think I've ever seen an ebike cf actually meet the ship date promise.

The crooks at flykly riide and porteur and many others just lied.

Well done Sondors. Now deliver!
 
An Open Letter to Storm Sondors
via: Kent M. Walker
Lewis Kohn and Walker LLP
15030 Avenue of Science, Suite 201
San Diego, CA 92128


Your campaign has failed to address business concerns which are integral to the delivery of a complete and safe product. As a public crowdfunding, you are obliged to operate with clarity, honesty, and transparency. As such;

  1. Correct all misstatements made by the campaign as to represent the product fairly and accurately
  2. Provide an accounting in total, and on a per unit basis;
    1. to include a provision to pay Agency 2.0
      1. actual advertising expenses up to 5% of gross revenue
      2. 10% of all gross revenue, less charge-backs, cancellations and returns
    2. to include payment in full to all vendors
    3. to meet your commitment to provide shipping at cost
    4. to provision for three years of customer service and support
      1. to include funds retained for repairs and returns
      2. to include adequate staffing and facilities for the same
    5. to provision independent lab certification of the battery, the frame, and the product in total
    6. to provision for a one year guarantee on the battery and three years for the bicycle
    7. to provision for $5,000,000 of product liability insurance, for a minimum of five years
  3. Determine feasibility;
    1. Should the accounting reveal that this cannot be accomplished, refund remaining funds to purchasers on a prorated basis
  4. To allow people to obtain a full refund anytime prior to delivery
 
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FTC,
Great points/suggestions... It's going to be a while before crowd funding gets reined in... I doubt they will do it on their own... What agency is willing to step in?
 
Hey @Brambor, I don't want to see you give up. I appreciate your input here but I like the open approach that @stevenast shared. It's just like ebikes... why regulate the top speed that the bike is capable of when you could simply enforce behavior and empower people who are behaving themselves who might be able to "go fast" and handle the responsibility... and know the difference of when it's appropriate and when it is not.

By locking a thread, we are essentially limiting the top speed of a bike instead of empowering people to know the limit and follow the rules.

Okay, I clearly need help moderating and I've been trying to pay Ann which is expensive, possibly not sustainable and also not what other sites do. They have members who are empowered to be moderators "for free" who are just there anyway, who have a vested interest in the community. Who here fits that description? Would anyone be willing to act as a moderator in the spirit of EBR and the etiquette thread.

@Brambor, you are correct that the etiquette guidelines (which I posted yesterday 5/20) have not been working in this thread and some of your comments have contributed to the ongoing debate. Case in point: "Storm sucks :confused:" (though perhaps I am misreading the intent of your statement)
 
Court said:
Guys... ES and EBR wouldn't have to lock anything if people behaved, be the change you want to see, lock yourselves out if you're concerned. I clearly don't have the bandwidth to moderate everyone consistently (though I will be enforcing new etiquette and banning individuals). With EBR I have chosen to lean more towards openness and am striving to make it work.
Click to expand...

I hope everyone realizes the effort you are making to keep the community open, informative, interesting, and still considerate and kind. It's a very hard balance to achieve. What you are attempting to do here depends upon the good intentions and actions of everyone involved.

In other words, it's up to us, the members, to help this site reach the vision that you have for it.

I think we can do it.
 
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