Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

Funny how the blue bike has that kink in the frame, but the yellow "production bike " doesn't. Nice to see some progress none the less, I'm guessing they only have the left side box at the moment. assuming they only have facilities to do one piece at a time. hope they can get the tolerences a bit tighter.... if it makes production.

another quote from Ebike4all.

eBike.4.All
17 minutes ago
Updated schedule:

Prototypes are almost complete (see latest update pictures). Full production to start late May / early June. Shipping to begin end of June. First deliveries expected in early to mid August.

ENDQUOTE

would like to be able to confirm this, its going to cause some angst amongst the funders...

Where is he getting this from? I believe it no doubt but it needs to be substantiated and he will not do it despite repeated requests.

It certainly fits in with how manufacturing and assembly are lacking and the shipping time from the USA - what of the "glorious sight of hundreds of batteries, frames, motors" could Ivars have been telling more porky pies?

I am joining @George S. on the sidelines, rightfully I have been reined in. Have a good week everyone!
 
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Funny, even the repeated comments (looks like it was a shift change from Bruce to Philip 4 hours ago - time to clock in!) from the rabid fanboys are starting to sound a little deflated:

"Production is on schedule for shipping this month, is the most up to date information we have."

So it looks like they are finally acknowledging nothing is ready to ship (of course ignoring the fact they were supposed to be delivered in the next 2 weeks) - and where again are they getting their information from?

That most recent post to IGG also confirms that when those first posts of 'production' were made, it turns out they were BS - looks as though the frame is going to be entirely different.

Also, who is going to throw down $500 for a bluto for this bike?! HAHAHAHAHA
 
With the blue bike, I don't know why he would be making changes to the frame design. The real advantage of using a Chinese manufacturer is that they have all the designs, jigs, and tooling ready-made for bikes that they already produce. Why would you want to design custom tooling and jigs thereby adding cost, complexity, and time?

{I see some chatter from the self-managing sondorite crowd that, noo; it cannot be, the bike pictured with the blue box picture is a different frame other than the one that will be in production}

Simpler just to purchase an existing Chinese product and put your brand on it as an OEM manufacturer. That would have been the ideal way to cost any crowd-funding.

Better make sure you don't use the Sondors name in vain because it is now trademarked;

https://trademarks.justia.com/865/28/sondors-86528960.html

And a real factory tour (with jigs pictures and fat-bikes)

http://electricbikereport.com/factories-china-giant-golden-wheel-yadea/

PS: they could not wire money, clear it, and even air ship a finished bike by month end.
 

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eBike.4.All
1 hour ago
Updated schedule:

Complete prototypes have not yet been approved for production. Refinements are ongoing (see latest update pictures – Blue bike was a color check. It is not a Sondors frame), and are expected to be complete within two weeks.

Full production to start late May / early June. Shipping to begin end of June. First deliveries expected in early to mid August.

END QUOTE.. I really don't know where EB4A is getting his info from, but if the blue frame isn't a Storm frame, that raises a very interesting question... Frames , batteries, wheels & motors have been in production for around two weeks, could they not find a proper storm frame to test fit the lunch box to? (well, the one piece that they actually have). would there not be at least one lousy storm frame hanging around the factory?
 
eBike.4.All
1 hour ago
Updated schedule:

Complete prototypes have not yet been approved for production. Refinements are ongoing (see latest update pictures – Blue bike was a color check. It is not a Sondors frame), and are expected to be complete within two weeks.

Full production to start late May / early June. Shipping to begin end of June. First deliveries expected in early to mid August.

END QUOTE.. I really don't know where EB4A is getting his info from, but if the blue frame isn't a Storm frame, that raises a very interesting question... Frames , batteries, wheels & motors have been in production for around two weeks, could they not find a proper storm frame to test fit the lunch box to? (well, the one piece that they actually have). would there not be at least one lousy storm frame hanging around the factory?

Nice of them to NOT tell backers what's been going on. Everyone knows, except the mushrooms who ponied up the dough for this fiasco.

Re things being in production for two weeks, first I'd heard of that as well. The fact that they can't even produce the proper bike frame for their lunchbox photo-ops is both disgusting and unsurprising. To me, it lends credence to the theory that not only have they manufactured exactly squat, they have no intentions of ever manufacturing anything. I guess they're saving that $ 5 mil for lawyers.

"That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Money for nothin' and chicks for free
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your little finger
Maybe get a blister on your thumb."

Thank God I'm demanding mine back, at least.
 
Here are some videos from the bike manufacturer that Sondors is using. http://www.tptchina.com/Video.asp
View attachment 3061

That is very interesting; thanks. I wonder if they are aware of the $500,000 lawsuit, and prior judgement?

And the fat bike crowd-funders are multiplying like rabbits;

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/powerful-electric-fat-bike-750-to-1000-watt-999

from an existing import company with 100 prior sales and offering a warranty on the battery and the bike. Should we ask them if they have product liability insurance?
 
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interesting, i have a hard time believing specs where some details are obviously blatantly wrong....the battery specs in particular make me think they dont even have a rudimentary understanding of how to calculate watt hours! the 22amp controller has nothing to do with it, hint hint.

never seen those tires but guarantee with that tread they will ride like trash and self steer like crazy. bb5 brakes and the 11 to 36t as well as the 100mm rims are the only positives i see there. hmm, guess this isnt new anyway, not much steam in that engine.
 
interesting, i have a hard time believing specs where some details are obviously blatantly wrong....the battery specs in particular make me think they dont even have a rudimentary understanding of how to calculate watt hours! the 22amp controller has nothing to do with it, hint hint.

never seen those tires but guarantee with that tread they will ride like trash and self steer like crazy. bb5 brakes and the 11 to 36t as well as the 100mm rims are the only positives i see there. hmm, guess this isnt new anyway, not much steam in that engine.

Yes and cheap battery indicator that won't tell you anything
Skull tires that makes the fat bike look even cooler, not
And, were we to believe wattage; you would not want anything more than 350 {perhaps 500} watts on the front fork (or 1000w on the back fork without a strong frame or torque arms) lest to damage the fork and cause catastrophic injury.
Lots of problems this no-go campaign on indinogo.

Those $^%$^ are putting an optional carbon fork on the front of an ebike with a motor that is designed to go off road. They are asking for a fatality.

There are a few levels of complexity all of which can be divided into, business and technical complexities.

To address both these sets of complexities is a tall order requiring lots of research, money, or experience. That is allot to ask.

Storm is clearly not there on both levels. Rad Rover is a bit closer.

 
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From the fore mentioned campaign:

"How Do you get maximum Speed from your E-Bike?


Check and make sure that none of your brake pads are rubbing the tires. Also, be sure that your tires are inflated to 28 Ibs."

Ok then. Not sure how bb5 pads are going to get anywhere near the tires and don't forget your kidney belt. Or you could drop it out of an airplane.

The fat bike clown bus has left the station. All Aboard!
 
@FTC Complaint unsure if it is directly related to you publishing a transcript of the back-slapping on the Owners Group Page but I have been contacted by a worried funder via my FB page seeking avenues to contact Sondors; he has a Zendesk number but then no contact whatsoever - I have just tried searching for the Owners FB page without success and it doesn't appear to be active anymore.
 
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QUOTE FROM INDIEGOGO.
Chance Miller
3 hours ago


It’s all happening!!

It’s all happening!!

I never thought that this project would be this far along so soon!

The photo wil several yellow bikes has popped up about a month sooner than my most optimistic estimate.

END QUOTE.

anybody know what he's on about?
 
Well he hasn't came back with an answer, there has been quite a bit of spamming over on IGG, but not one of the Sondorites has come up with anything about a picture, I'm thinking if there was one, they'd be shouting it from the roof tops.
 
Well he hasn't came back with an answer, there has been quite a bit of spamming over on IGG, but not one of the Sondorites has come up with anything about a picture, I'm thinking if there was one, they'd be shouting it from the roof tops.

You mean this picture

yjktvtadkwyaevtnyh9s.jpg


From "Rad Rover."
 
I just posted on the IGG condors comment page... Copied from IG's terms of Use
Community Guidelines
Indiegogo is not a place for hatred, abuse, discrimination, disrespect, profanity, meanness, harassment, or spam. Do not:
  • spam the comments sections or other Users with offers of goods and services or inappropriate messages;
It lasted 5 minutes before the spamming continued... I also got an email from IGG saying they were looking into it... sure
they are...
 
I just posted on the IGG condors comment page... Copied from IG's terms of Use
Community Guidelines
Indiegogo is not a place for hatred, abuse, discrimination, disrespect, profanity, meanness, harassment, or spam. Do not:
  • spam the comments sections or other Users with offers of goods and services or inappropriate messages;
It lasted 5 minutes before the spamming continued... I also got an email from IGG saying they were looking into it... sure
they are...

My email correspondence chronology with IGG goes something like this;

When I alerted them to all the discrepancies of the Sondors campaign on February 8th and thereafter, they said "they would be looking into it."

I followed on with IGG, in response they told me to post on the IGG-Storm chat board, it being a place where I could raise concerns.

To post, I had to provide consideration to the campaign and thus was a participant to it.

I posted a few times, and factually, on the chat board as instructed with my real person name. I offered A2.0 help via a conference call.

They then did a turn around and I got a "threat" from IGG for interfering with the campaign by posting on the IGG-Storm chat board as instructed. (as if they were going to allege tortuous interference, and I would be potentially bogged down defending myself in a frivolous but expensive in a lawsuit for raising concerns). They said the campaign (which I assume to be Agency 2.0) was complaining about me.

I told them that I was following their instructions to post and paid consideration into the campaign and thus was member of it and entitled to express concerns.

I asked for the service address for Storm from their legal department. None was provided.

I provided them with a log of all my posts. (they were small in number and factual)

I told IGG in no uncertain terms that Storm was a problem, but in comparison IGG's conduct, business model, and stance was the real problem. It was up to them to manage their business and conduct it ethically. "Let there be no misunderstanding," you IGG are the problem because...

A member of the press who was copied on their response said "he is trying to alert you to potential fraud" first you tell him to post on the IGG board, and then you prevent him from doing so.

I never used the word fraud, I was assuming bad business. Given the history of non-payment, and the false representations, it might very well be found that he is conducting himself fraudulently. That would be up to a court or agency, not me.

I filed complaints with the FTC and CA AG's office. I spoke to executives at the FTC and CPSC.

This kind of irresponsibility, complete with potential to harm the consumer, really gets me pissed off. We are seeing Storm and A2.0 self destruct in a lawsuit; the more this debacle goes on the more destruction it will reap. It is possible that IGG takes the hit they deserve on this debacle.

The poor consumer has the short end of the stick on this one. (most don't want to understand they are better off because a few folks are standing up for honesty and transparency, which is in their best interests whether or not they know it; many are just too frozen in bias to ask for a refund)

There is no law against "bad business" as is the case with Storm and IGG, however "bad business" will speak to the longevity of the businesses in question.
 
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