Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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@RedDwarf now two questions for you?
1) aware of the £600 loading? http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/11209-import-duty-rate-for-electric-bike-is-14/
2) am I making up that the IGG page has been updated to show October 2015 estimated delivery?
now 3
3) who gave a guarantee that the shipping would be less than $194 for US customers etc? Much less was confirmed. Now was it my fault that it was a lie?
Three questions to answer, you ain't doing too well answering any so far.
1) aware of the £600 loading? http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/11209-import-duty-rate-for-electric-bike-is-14/
2) am I making up that the IGG page has been updated to show October 2015 estimated delivery?
now 3
3) who gave a guarantee that the shipping would be less than $194 for US customers etc? Much less was confirmed. Now was it my fault that it was a lie?
Three questions to answer, you ain't doing too well answering any so far.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
I said it would cost between $20,000 and $40,000 to buy insurance; the actual quote I got for my business plan was a fixed amount or 4.5% of gross sales which-ever was greater from an expert carrier in this field. At $599 5% would be $30 a unit at $1000 it would be $50, at scale and using an actual quotation I was privy to.
You might need to provide a major retailer with$5m in coverage to sell through their channel, and I have seen that cost an ebike OEM'er $40,000.
I have to disagree with you as to whether or not fact are to be determined, are indeterminate, or need to be determined later. Inference will suffice when given the facts as follows;
Storm was asked a series of questions (by myself and also members of the press) and those questions were met with silence, Court reviewed a like product that had lesser performance versus the "false" representations made by storm, finding of fraud was disclosed in a prior civil lawsuit ruling, a lawsuit for civil fraud was initiated for non-payment, the PR campaign has been abandoned leaving a flame-war in its wake, questions remain unanswered, and the Rad Rover campaign provided an opportunity to contrast a 23 point comparison in conduct and performance of a like campaign.
Indigogo got paid already, Sondors got some money, Agency 2.0 got bilked, and after all that folks that paid for a bike have to wait in line and will have no recourse even if one is delivered.
Facts are very clear; ask for a refund from Storm.
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And its not hard to respond to clients questions when you only have 50. Try having to respond to 7000 or 8000 questions. And that was what Agency 2.0 was there to do. Answer questions and do customer service.
So Stop pointing the finger at Storm and move it on over to Chris as that was his job. Storm is there to make sure the bikes get produced. Gotta love these trolls here. They read into everything on the campaign yet get nothing right.
How about you all stop trashing this poor man and his bike and wait to see if there is anything to complain about.
So Stop pointing the finger at Storm and move it on over to Chris as that was his job. Storm is there to make sure the bikes get produced. Gotta love these trolls here. They read into everything on the campaign yet get nothing right.
How about you all stop trashing this poor man and his bike and wait to see if there is anything to complain about.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
Red, I was interested in ebikes long before Sondors came along, when I saw some of the outrageous claims in the Sondors campaign I asked questions through channels, when they remained unanswered through the press. I pointed Yahoo in the direction of Court at EBR in fact.
Sondors did not answer a single question!
Not a single question raised by a major publication.
Not one question in follow up.
Yes there will be thousands of questions since 10,000 bikes were sold.
Questions about how to get a refund on a pre-purchase?
Questions regarding how to assemble the bike once it arrives?
Questions regarding performance?
Questions on how to return and repair bikes when the don't work or go bad?
First, Storm is not interested in answering questions.
Second, Why would agency 2.0 answer questions when they remain unpaid?
Third, Storm does not have, and has not developed, the infrastructure he needs to answer questions, to land bikes, and to support bikes.
Forth, the press is a single point of contact for Storm either at Yahoo or Crowdfunding, Gizmodo, or Crowdfunding insider, or even the LA Times... Has Storm reached out to them to address any uncertainties? NO
Lastly, The responsibility to answer questions is Storms alone ( through his infrastructure, or a media conduit), not his unpaid agent Agency 2.0, not you, not through religious speculation, not through a barrage of flame-war monkeys on IGG, not his current agent (who has placed his reputation at risk)
Communication is Storm's responsibility, and guess what, he has shirked his responsibility. Ask for a refund while you can.
Red, I have placed you on ignore by clicking on your name, and hitting the ignore button.. You are just too illogical, and personal, in your though process for my tastes.
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You have yet to give me any answers Ian why should I give you any.
Not 1 have you given me.
And as for your 3 questions why should they be answered yet again you never like the 400 replies to these questions in the past why should it be any different now.
And FYI none of the backers need your help and none of the backers are being taken advantage of. We do not need you to save us. We know what we are getting into we all read the fine print.
The only good thing that can come out of this is that people that pay $1 should only get to make 1 post on any IGG campaign. You want to post more then pay up other wise stop posting.
Not 1 have you given me.
And as for your 3 questions why should they be answered yet again you never like the 400 replies to these questions in the past why should it be any different now.
And FYI none of the backers need your help and none of the backers are being taken advantage of. We do not need you to save us. We know what we are getting into we all read the fine print.
The only good thing that can come out of this is that people that pay $1 should only get to make 1 post on any IGG campaign. You want to post more then pay up other wise stop posting.
according to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing.
Thats what it says.
Can you not read???? Is it not clear enough for you? Are you that stupid maybe not cause you are able to point out my spelling yet can not comprehend 1 1/2 lines of text.
Go figure
manufacturing.
Thats what it says.
Can you not read???? Is it not clear enough for you? Are you that stupid maybe not cause you are able to point out my spelling yet can not comprehend 1 1/2 lines of text.
Go figure
JRA
Well-Known Member
Well good news today for the funders on the manufacturing end as examples of the battery box in three different colors have been shown! Here is the blue one mounted in, yes, a blue frame.
Looks like a new free addition to the frame is the kink in the downtube that is also now fully rectangular. That will help out when you want to upgrade to a Bluto so as the crown doesn't hit the DT. The fit of the box looks a little airy underneath like it is a bit small and overall not as tight a fit as the demo bike but I am sure they have that worked out. I have to say that the frame is looking very beefy overall which is good for strength but not as good for weight. But as they say, "Cheap, light and strong, pick any two". Cheap and strong it is.
The bad news for the on the fence funders is this:
Can I get a refund?
According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing.
Sorry FTC, it looks like you will have to stop soliciting for people to request a refund. ;( But keep up the good work on the facts and figures overall!
Looks like a new free addition to the frame is the kink in the downtube that is also now fully rectangular. That will help out when you want to upgrade to a Bluto so as the crown doesn't hit the DT. The fit of the box looks a little airy underneath like it is a bit small and overall not as tight a fit as the demo bike but I am sure they have that worked out. I have to say that the frame is looking very beefy overall which is good for strength but not as good for weight. But as they say, "Cheap, light and strong, pick any two". Cheap and strong it is.
The bad news for the on the fence funders is this:
Can I get a refund?
According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing.
Sorry FTC, it looks like you will have to stop soliciting for people to request a refund. ;( But keep up the good work on the facts and figures overall!
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wa5
Well-Known Member
Funny how the blue bike has that kink in the frame, but the yellow "production bike " doesn't. Nice to see some progress none the less, I'm guessing they only have the left side box at the moment. assuming they only have facilities to do one piece at a time. hope they can get the tolerences a bit tighter.... if it makes production.
another quote from Ebike4all.
eBike.4.All
17 minutes ago
Updated schedule:
Prototypes are almost complete (see latest update pictures). Full production to start late May / early June. Shipping to begin end of June. First deliveries expected in early to mid August.
ENDQUOTE
would like to be able to confirm this, its going to cause some angst amongst the funders...
another quote from Ebike4all.
eBike.4.All
17 minutes ago
Updated schedule:
Prototypes are almost complete (see latest update pictures). Full production to start late May / early June. Shipping to begin end of June. First deliveries expected in early to mid August.
ENDQUOTE
would like to be able to confirm this, its going to cause some angst amongst the funders...
Credible Hulk
Active Member
More damn baloney sandwich box pics. But not one word about the changed policies slithered in to the crimepaign website. Like the refunds, which just went the way of the "guaranteed" shipping fee refunds. Funny how other projects include such changes in their updates, like the update I recently received about manufacturing delays from a Kickstarter I funded. Surprise surprise, no such update from the fraud artist?
If you want to do a chargeback, it's mandatory to ask the vendor for a refund first. So despite their sneaky policy change on their website, nothing's stopping anyone from asking for a refund anyway - and documenting any reply. IGG can't stop credit card companies from forcibly removing your/their funds from IGG's bank account, along with a hefty chargeback fee. That's how chargebacks work.
In fact, if you provide a summary of the unannounced IGG changes, such as the ship fee shell game, and the unexplained and substantial (3 months?) delay of "estimated" arrival, this is more reason for the card company to decide to go ahead with the chargeback. The lack of transparency by both Ivars and IGG increases concern that they have no intention of providing anything to anyone - grounds for fraud investigations by law enforcement and government regulatory agencies.
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Credible Hulk
Active Member
Yeah, they just painted it blue. I wonder what colour the black one will be painted for the next photo shoot?
JRA
Well-Known Member
In all fairness I do believe that the boxes are properly made with the real color plastic resins CHulk. I am more concerned with the fit than the finish as I mentioned.
As you have said before there is a statute of limitations as to receiving any refunds through your card company directly that I believe was 60 to 90 days? The 60 days is certainly past for most and the 90 is fast approaching and the hassle to file and fool around with the process at this point is probably more than most people would find the time for. The best that can be done is to hang on and see how it all plays out I guess.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
I would agree, You want to be in a position where you have asked for a refund even if you have a documented refusal both with Storm and IGG. Ask for a refund from your credit card company as well.
Indigogo may have some problems hiding behind its disclaimer. As mentioned, the terms and conditions of this purchase are slanted so far against the unsuspecting consumer, that they may be deemed to be unconscionable.
False representations were made, and litigation for alleged civil contractual fraud for non-payment is now underway and will be for some time. As a consumer, why should you be asked to cover this kind of risk as IGG is allowed to take your money risk free without adding value?
{eg IGG not doing the most basic safeguard of running a credit report on Sondors, or having their fraud protection team actually respond to the concerns raised about this campaign early on; Unfair to the consumer and grossly negligent?}
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