Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

seems to me he infuriates those who think they should not be ignored. He might be a crook but hypothetically, if he is not a crook, he just goes about getting the job done and doesn't pander to anyone with extra attention. The undertaking seems to be on a massive scale and he seems to focus on getting the core job done one step at a time.
 
EULITTLB said:
Seriously though, what makes some of us sceptics and others believers? The scam of bandying around one bike only in different guises is so transparent, to reiterate if Ivars had the ability to shut sceptics up at this late stage he would by posting a picture of loads of bits or bikes, but he can't, simple as. Am still struggling to find any info on the outcome of the hearing May 6th....
Click to expand...

I used to be a believer until the shipping rip-off ("guaranteed" refund -> no refund). I was suspicious before that, but made a lot of allowances for all the red flags. I'm still blown away by the blind devotion of some people. I understand being desperate to believe in something when you've put hundreds or thousands of dollars into it. But some people seem to go into a state of denial when faced with hard facts.

Just today I heard from someone re the latest shipping update. I was told that Sondors never intended to ship in May in the first place, their target date(s) have always been June or July. I guess that means when the products don't materialize in June or July, Ivars can claim he never intended to ship until September. Denial...
 
@Brambor - the Aspergers article was timed to justify his lack of interaction with funders who have misplaced their trust - he has abused it already, period. As a Campaign Owner funders and would-be funders are fully entitled to ask questions of a product, but what Sondors has done is put distance between himself and the answers that are associated to questions by others. We can all hide behind being focussed but I have never seen one question asked by a funder and answered personally by Sondors. An hours work to sit down and set out answers to the principal concerns, but no........ nothing. Instead he lets his flurry of ardent believers argue on his behalf..... argue on the basis of the tiniest morcels of information and blowing up photos to determine what we can about them.... the whole think has stunk from day one - I asked the same questions as I ask now and was banned from their Facebook Page for doing so, I approached Sondors to buy 30-50 bikes for the purposes of resale, and boy am I glad he didn't even bother to respond.

@Credible Hulk, suggesting that you heard from someone doesn't really go far, no matter how much I may agree with them/your post. It is a massive undertaking, and my best estimate was that if anything is shipped - still awaiting the outcome of the Court Hearings but Sondors has been dishonest and ignored Court Awards before - it would be delivered in August earliest (that is without legal, logistical and customs complications imo)

@Bruce Choate is still waving the flag and leading people to believe that in spite of the now categoric statement ion the IGG page that $194 is the cost for US Funders etc, that there is still the possibility of a refund being made and he is hopeful. I will not resort to the abusive and nasty manner in which he responds to me on the IGG comments page which would not be tolerated elsewhere, I believe he is sadly mistaken on this point. As he is on others.
 
CH,
Have you started the chargeback process, and if so will you lose your wee bit of insider knowledge, such as it is??
Thanks for your Spock like input..
M
 
I expect the real timetable has been known since the day they first offered insurance and at least those bikes and Court's will be delivered prior to that payoff date.
 
mike bombardieri said:
CH,
Have you started the chargeback process, and if so will you lose your wee bit of insider knowledge, such as it is??
Thanks for your Spock like input..
M
Click to expand...

I spoke with my credit card company yesterday. They don't normally do chargebacks after 90 days. However, given the situation and evidence I described, they're looking into it and will call me back, probably next week.

I don't see this affecting my contacts. They know I'm not satisfied with how the Sondors campaign is shaping up, but not that I'm looking into a refund.
 
@J.R. how do you interpret the terms of the insurance which I am quoting from memory about if not delivered within three months of the delivery date - the only delivery date that was quoted was an estimated delivery date - curiously the perk insurance has since been removed and is no longer available - what a mark of a lack of confidence!!!!!
 
EULITTLB said:
@Brambor
@Credible Hulk, suggesting that you heard from someone doesn't really go far, no matter how much I may agree with them/your post. It is a massive undertaking, and my best estimate was that if anything is shipped - still awaiting the outcome of the Court Hearings but Sondors has been dishonest and ignored Court Awards before - it would be delivered in August earliest (that is without legal, logistical and customs complications imo)
Click to expand...

I try to stay as discreet as possible, because I don't want to point fingers at anyone. I described the shipping date issue to illustrate how far people will go to twist the facts to suit their wishes. May ship date has been advertised since the beginning of the campaign, now it's mid-May and no credible sign of anything even being manufactured. I'd find these delays easier to accept if Ivars made any attempt to explain them or give a ballpark revised date. Instead he posts idiotic nonsense about red shoes and Chinese food, and tries to hoodwink customers into handing him even more money for more products that don't exist.
 
CH, let me correct you if I may - estimated delivery date was May (I assume 2015) - shipping date was NOT May 2015, delivery date WAS - that money is gaining interest all the time......
 
EULITTLB said:
CH, let me correct you if I may - estimated delivery date was May (I assume 2015) - shipping date was NOT May 2015, delivery date WAS - that money is gaining interest all the time......
Click to expand...

Whoops, looks like I cut them too much slack... force of habit I suppose. ;)

Here's an update I received from a reputable IGG project today. Note that they're volunteering this info before, not after, the planned May delivery date. They're taking ownership of the delay (not sweeping it under the rug), and apologizing to their customers.

"We want to inform you that we have been working hard to get your products ready in time.

Watch on Indiegogo
We want to let you know that we are working with a dropship company experienced in fulfilling crowd funding campaigns.

However we do have some bad news to share with you, one of our manufacturers who is responsible for the power adapters has delayed shipment to us twice in a row. They have postponed the date of the final delivery to the end of this month, as soon as the power adapters arrive we will post another update.

We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding and patience in this matter, if you have any further questions or comments please let us know on [email protected] for a speedy responds."

Why is it so hard for Ivars to send a similar message to his backers? Who knows, maybe he will eventually.
 
If I were going to do a CF campaign I would automatically add 2 or 3 months for delivery onto whatever I thought I might achieve because inevitably, delays always manage to occur in these campaigns even when the product is fairly simple. Some supplier doesn't meet their schedule and that throws off the whole schedule. I'm not cutting Sonders any slack, I'm just saying that delays are so common in these campaigns, one almost needs to mentally add 3 months onto any promised date.

In business a good project manager always adds in slack time to buy some additional time, expecting that s/he will need that time for testing or delays or whoknowswhat. Whether it's a week or a month or even more. We do it routinely in software development; every engineering manager knows to do this. No one ever gets mad if you deliver your product early!
 
Thanks CH... Regarding chargebacks... if you "read between the lines" in the 2.0 lawsuit... chargebacks have been
occurring since the very beginning of the campaign. One could only guess... that they are from funders who regretted their "impulsive buy" or did some investigating and logic took over. So, that leads me to believe that IGG's "no refund"
policy has no "teeth".. when they go up against the CC companies...
 
You can claim fraud with your CC company, citing the changing specs of the product from what you purchased. There's a category in online auctions called "product not as described" and that's a valid reason to get money back from PayPal. Well, the same with the CC companies too.
 
PowerMe said:
If I were going to do a CF campaign I would automatically add 2 or 3 months for delivery onto whatever I thought I might achieve because inevitably, delays always manage to occur in these campaigns even when the product is fairly simple. Some supplier doesn't meet their schedule and that throws off the whole schedule. I'm not cutting Sonders any slack, I'm just saying that delays are so common in these campaigns, one almost needs to mentally add 3 months onto any promised date.

In business a good project manager always adds in slack time to buy some additional time, expecting that s/he will need that time for testing or delays or whoknowswhat. Whether it's a week or a month or even more. We do it routinely in software development; every engineering manager knows to do this. No one ever gets mad if you deliver your product early!
Click to expand...

...but not when manufacturing is all in place with a capacity of 12-14000 bikes a month.......(Chris Davies/Slashgear, 2nd Feb 2015) In fact please re-read the article, clarifies the spec, the DELIVERY date of May 2015 and that all manufacturing was in-house (in correspondence with me he confirmed the accuracy of his reporting.)

One for @Bruce Choate who seeks to argue that this was mis-reporting and then, having hopelessly failed on that point, says that some of the components are manufactured in-house so technically it is correct.......... by producing everything, rather than piecing together off-the-shelf parts, he can keep the costs down. Read it again @Bruce Choate, yes, by producing everything.
 
PowerMe said:
You can claim fraud with your CC company, citing the changing specs of the product from what you purchased. There's a category in online auctions called "product not as described" and that's a valid reason to get money back from PayPal. Well, the same with the CC companies too.
Click to expand...

Yep, use the Chris Davies Article to support your claim of vast different bike and claims
 
I don't care what the claims of a factory are or anything else. There are often (and usually) delays that no one can guess. It's just the way it is. Like a Port of LA strike -- who could have seen that coming 5 months before it did? You just never know, that's the point. Even when you think something is straightforward and goes like clockwork...Murphy's Law comes to play.
 
PowerMe said:
I don't care what the claims of a factory are or anything else. There are often (and usually) delays that no one can guess. It's just the way it is. Like a Port of LA strike -- who could have seen that coming 5 months before it did? You just never know, that's the point. Even when you think something is straightforward and goes like clockwork...Murphy's Law comes to play.
Click to expand...

Point taken, s*it happens - so where is the honesty and transparency.... I get it all the time on IGG, people saying they will be gloating when they get to ride their Sondors in the Summer............. if it is delivered by then............ and if the battery lasts that long for them to gloat whilst riding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Nireeka triple charged me for 1 ebike
Replies
15
Views
4K
shiruba
S
Back