Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[EULITTLB]

My reading of the update was that the bikes - with an estimated delivery of May 2015 plastered all over IGG) - would not even ship in May, and then there were vague references to shipping container loads and ground deliveries. So Ivars, how long will shipping take? 4-6 weeks if there are no hold-ups or complications. If you are a crowdfunder you have to be prepared to swallow a lot of BS, but this is not crowdfunding a concept or idea, it is crowdfunding retail - with all the twists, turns and uncertainteis that this entails (with the Ad Agency directly responsible for the success of the Campaign suing the Campaign Owner for non-payment, noting he is untrustworthy, duplicitous and allegedly insolvent.) Sales taxes due guys, 7000+ 60kg bikes will not sneak their way through customs without taxes (and in the case of the EU duties and anti-dumping at 48%) being applied.

Keep the faith. And your cheapy Sondors bike, get ready for the accessories market! This shows how far away from shipping they are if the accessory add-ons ship with the bike or will it be another $x for the shipping fees - they are buying time. August for the first deliveries to people, barring any complications from the legal case imo.

 

[EULITTLB]

Has anyone got a link or update on the Court Hearing on May 6th 2015 or do funders have to wait for the July Hearing to find out what effect if any it will have on the manufacture and distribution of the bikes, nice card to hold Sondors!!! #purposeful?

 

[Credible Hulk]

Keep the faith. And your cheapy Sondors bike, get ready for the accessories market! This shows how far away from shipping they are if the accessory add-ons ship with the bike or will it be another $x for the shipping fees - they are buying time. August for the first deliveries to people, barring any complications from the legal case imo.

So, you're saying that I should wait a bit longer before requesting a refund? I do agree that trying to sell after-market accessories for a product that hasn't been built yet, is buying time and distracting attention from the elephant in the room.

I could wait longer if I saw concrete evidence that something is already being manufactured. As of this moment I'm not seeing any satisfactory evidence. Even an updated timeframe would help, because obviously the promise of shipping in May (still being advertised) won't be kept. It's like the inflated specs. They were told months ago that the specs are exaggerated, yet they continue to advertise the false numbers.

 

[EULITTLB]

Keep the faith? Did I write that? I would play them at their own game personally CH, educate yourself with understanding your Rights in this situation, give Sondors as much leeway as possible until you are uncomfortable and then reel it in if you want to - for each person that will be different, all along I want people to look at this more closely and learn the flaws in this Campaign.

I bougth 10 x Trackr's in January, no sign of them now still updating all the time, it is $130 so not really that bothered. Sondors didn't read and certainly didn't heed my advice - honesty and transparency go a long way and for me it is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[wa5]

The latest update, with stupid shoe and chinese food references removed.....

Hi Sondors eBike Backers!

Today is a good day as 100% of all components are in production and we are on track to ship this month. What does this mean? It means that the batteries, motors, battery boxes, handgrips, battery charger display, etc. are all in production and will be sent to one location for the production team to assemble and package.

** Shipping Process **

After they’re packaged, they go into a gigantic cargo box, get loaded onto an enormous cargo ship at a port in China and work their way to a port near you. Then, they are sent via ground shipping to your doorstep. You’ll get a tracking number when your Sondors eBike package is on its way.

We will not have an exact delivery date until bikes reach their destination port and are assigned a tracking code.

** Add-Ons **

LCD Display: There will be an LCD Display available for purchase as an add-on soon. It will be similar to the one we showed in the battery test, but will be specifically built to be compatible with your Sondors eBike. More information to come.

Fender: There will be a fender available for purchase as an add-on soon. It will be specifically built to be compatible for your Sondors eBike. More information to come.

** Tooling **

Here are a few pics from the first images of the battery box from actual tooling that is already underway.

** Packaging for Bike **

While we know what’s in the box is more exciting than how it got there … it’s important to note that a lot goes into the actual packaging process. Here are a few pics of working on the perfect packaging to ensure safe delivery of every Sondors eBike. From a plastic cover over the brake disk to the positioning of parts in the box. It’s an art and a science!

** More Questions and Answers **

Q: When will I get paid for my referrals?

A: Please email [email protected] with a copy of your referrals and we’ll take care of you.

Q: Has the injection molding process started?

A: Yes. We will have video of the process shortly.

Q: When can we see pictures of the Sondors eBike assembly line?

A: Very soon.

 

[EULITTLB]

And what do you make of that Trev?

 

[Hurley]

Interesting reading...
Sounds like the genius is winging it.

Delivery time
The transit time from China to most locations in Europe and the United States is roughly 29 – 35 days. However, keep in mind that it can take a few days – sometimes up to a whole week – before your cargo is loaded in the port of loading in China. The same thing is true in the Port of Destination, it usually takes 2 – 3 days before your cargo is cleared and ready for pick up.

Sea freight is indeed quite slow and this means that importing from China certainly requires a lot more long-term planning compared to domestic product purchases. This has also been a major cause for the recent surge in reshoring in Europe and the US. In general I recommend businesses to place an order at a minimum 3 months before they need the products in their warehouse.

“What happens when the cargo arrives at the Port of Destination?”
When the container vessel arrives the containers are first unloaded. Some may be inspected by the local customs authorities, but most are not. Regardless of whether you or the supplier managed the freight, the port authorities will begin customs clearing which basically means that you are invoiced any duties, VAT, port fees and service fees (Yes, there are a lot of fees).

“How do I get my stuff from the port?”
You got two options; either you pick it up yourself or you ask your shipping agent to load it on a truck and deliver it to a specific location. It’s not harder than that. When the cargo arrives at the Port of Destination you will likely be notified by the port agent. In most cases you can book the transportation directly through the port agent.

If you are ordering a full container load this is certain to recommend. Upon delivery you can expect to have somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour to unload the cargo. Be well prepared because you don’t want to waste your time.

“What will happen if the cargo is damaged?”
This actually happens a lot more often than most importers would believe. This is also the time when that insurance turns out to be a pretty good investment. If your cargo is damaged then I advise you to follow this process:

1.) Take photos and videos of the damages
2.) Estimate the total number of damaged cartons and products
3.) Make a calculation of the total value loss. Keep in mind that this should be supported by the value stated on the invoice. (Insurance companies are not stupid and fraud was still a criminal offense last time I checked)
4.) Send the material to your insurance company

The last point is not always that easy if you let your supplier manage the sea freight and have no clue of which insurance company they selected. Therefore I suggest that you ask your supplier for a copy of the sea freight insurance policy before the cargo is shipped. Then you’ll know who to contact in case your cargo would be damaged during the transportation.

If you have a valid claim it’s usually a rather quick and painless process to go through in order to get your money back. However, keep in mind that most sea freight insurance only covers the value of your products – not the shipping costs.

Containers
In case you decide to import full container loads you have three different options:

1. FCL 20’’ (Volume: 33.2 cbm)
2. FCL 40’’ (Volume: 67.7 cbm)
3. FCL 40’’ HQ (Volume: 76.3 cbm)
4. FCL 45’’ HQ (Volume: 85.9 cbm)

The container volume may differ slightly between different shipping companies. The volumes above are valid for Maersk containers. However, the difference is so small (+/- 0.1 cbm) that you don’t need to bother. There is still one way to save quite a lot of money based on the sea freight cost that’s related to the container volume. That is to place orders based on the units that fit in a specific container size rather than a pre-determined quantity.

This way you can avoid situations where you pay for empty space or have to order one FCL container and one LCL container. The latter situation can become rather costly since LCL comes with higher port fees than FCL shipping.

Export packing
The best insurance is high quality export packing. It would be natural to assume that the Chinese suppliers would have this figured out. However, I’ve seen countless of times when Chinese suppliers use cheap and low quality export packing to wrap up cargo worth tens of thousands of dollars. NEVER make this assumption or you might end up bankrupt.

Prior to your order you shall clearly specify to your supplier which export packing you require. At a minimum I recommend the following specifications:

1. Outer cartons: 5 layer cartons
2. Inner cartons: 3 layer cartons
3. Pallets: Wooden freight pallets (dimensional standards vary between different countries)
4. Protective plastic: Yes (wrapped around the outer export cartons)
5. Plastic straps: Yes (shall fix the cartons to the pallet)

Once upon a time I made the terrible mistake of only telling the supplier that the cargo should be stacked on pallets. They were indeed stacking the cargo (1000 pcs x 25 kg PVC tarpaulins) on pallets, but not on the kind of pallet that you use when you ship 25 tons of cargo from China to Europe. No, they used plastic pallets. The kind of pallet Chikita stacks their banana cartons on.

The result was almost a complete disaster. The pallets were crushed and the plastic turned into sharp edges that penetrated the cartons. However, in the end we got lucky since the cargo was not damaged.

Shipping documents
As you would’ve probably expected shipping comes with a fair share of paperwork, below I explain the basic documents:

Bill of Lading
The main freight document issued by the transportation company that specifies the shipping company, exporting company (seller), consignee (buyer), products, volume and incoterm. The Bill of Lading is mandatory when shipping from China and shall be delivered (along with C/I & P/L) to the buyer within 2 weeks (counting from date of balance payment)

Mandatory for all types of products: Yes

Commercial Invoice
A document specifying the order value, types of products and consignee. This document is used by the Port Agent for customs clearance and calculation of VAT and custom fees. The Commercial Invoice is mandatory and shall be delivered (along with B/L & P/L) to the buyer within 2 weeks (counting from date of balance payment)

Mandatory for all types of shipments: Yes

Packing list
A document specifying the volume, different types of products and quantity per type of product. The Packing List is mandatory and should be delivered (along with B/L & C/I) to the buyer within 2 weeks (counting from date of balance payment)

 

[flymeaway]

I did the calculations 40 foot container will hold approximately 980 bikes. Assuming he can negotiate a good rate for the transport from Shanghai to the Port of LA shipping cost should be approx. $4,000. From LA if he were to use www.shipbikes.com from LA to Boston the quoted cost for an ebike is $80. The $194 price is pretty steep.

 

[Hurley]

Over 30 tons of bikes per 40 foot container. Hopefully they are packed properly...

 

[wa5]

And what do you make of that Trev?

Welllllll.

Storm is very careful to say that parts are being manufactured in several different locations... Is this just another excuse as to why he cant take any pictures of any part of the process?

Storm has been back in China for about 2 weeks. What is he actually doing? Quality assurance on the "test bikes"? Everything about this cheap china bike is off the shelf and already in production... except the battery cover (which we finally see today.. in white) Does it take two weeks to test all of these components? items that are already a known quantity?

Just to backtrack to the "everything in production" bit. I'm no "Production Genius". BUT, most factories wouldn't start making the frame and wheels just to stockpile them until everything else arrived, that's just not how production lines work. (The Japanese Pioneered JIT - Just In Time, product delivery / warehousing 40 odd years ago, it has since been copied the world over) .

Storm seems to be hanging around the main bike factory, (probably eats in the company canteen... every free meal is important to a man who cant even afford a parking ticket).. That's the place where the frames are being made (we saw them in the early updates during Storms "Fonzie" phase). Storm has stated the frames are indeed in production... He's at the factory... why not shoot some pictures of the bike frames and wheels.

The battery box is in production ... video to come.. My crappy 12 year old Cannon Ixus 55 will do perfectly acceptable video. I'm sure a new sub $100 camera would do way better than my decade old model, they fit in your top pocket, you can carry them everywhere., but no pictures, not even stills of the first covers coming out of the moulds... makes me wonder if its just the same yellow cover resprayed... or another blow moulded cover..

Note that this picture appears to be flipped, the charging port (the dirty looking rubber plug) is on the other side of the prototype and can be seen in the correct left side in the picture looking down from above. How would this picture get reversed? has it been "touched up"?

So, "what do I think" Ian? .... I think these pictures prove little or nothing.

 

[J.R.]

I've seen Harley photos published with the carb and transmission flipped, happens during e-publishing. As for photos on the shop floor, I won't let a customer take photos on the production floor. Not that anything is proprietary, just private.

 

[EULITTLB]

@Hurley, your last post gives the impression that you feel that there actually will be bikes and they really will ship at some stage...... call me a cynics (the cries are deafening) but we are a long way from discussing the manner of packing or anything else for that matter. If Ivars had anything to show he would show it, make a big thing about it like he does about reflectors or different locknuts, the size of the knobs on the tyres - if Ivars can promote or sell something he does his best. Well why not detail the production, to me it still stinks and I am still awaiting to see what effect the court proceedings (the timing of which I believe to be purposeful) have on production.

 

[PowerMe]

I can't think of a more boring movie. Seriously. But go ahead and fund it on IGG. What the heck.

 

[Credible Hulk]

I can't think of a more boring movie. Seriously. But go ahead and fund it on IGG. What the heck.

I dunno - now that Ivars is yammering about his magic red shoes while being behind schedule to ship several thousand ebikes to paid customers... as usual, nothing being made except a couple of plastic lunchboxes. I'd say if this keeps up, things will become a helluva lot more interesting once the (additional) lawsuits and fraud charges start rolling in from around the world. Many countries have extradition agreements with the US.

And since he hasn't paid his court-ordered amount owing to Toyjobs, he might find himself arrested for contempt of court in the not too distant future. I'm surprised Toyjobs hasn't already filed, based on the $ millions Ivars has publicly collected. You can only be a flake for so long until it finally catches up with you. Just ask the repo guy who picked up the shiny new car he bought with our money.

 

[JRA]

Over 30 tons of bikes per 40 foot container. Hopefully they are packed properly...

From the looks of the bulge in the side of the sample box they might want to consider the next size or so wider. That plastic disc "protector" is going to be in bits in the bottom of the box if they ship them like that.

And thanks for the excellent tutorial regarding the shipping details. Now that it has been revealed that the bikes will be shipped in "gigantic cargo boxes on an enormous cargo ship" it puts to rest one well known Sondorites continuous statements that they will be shipped individually from overseas to rest. Hopefully they have a delivery genius on tap.

 

[Credible Hulk]

And thanks for the excellent tutorial regarding the shipping details. Now that it has been revealed that the bikes will be shipped in "gigantic cargo boxes on an enormous cargo ship" it puts to rest one well known Sondorites continuous statements that they will be shipped individually from overseas to rest. Hopefully they have a delivery genius on tap.

Well at least we know they have a genius at ripping off customers with exorbitant fees. For $275 I could have had the thing flown to my door in a chauffeur-driven hover-limo.

 

[JRA]

Well at least we know they have a genius at ripping off customers with exorbitant fees. For $275 I could have had the thing flown to my door in a chauffeur-driven hover-limo.

Seriously, I am working on a IGG campaign to revolutionize the manufacturing, sales and distribution of shoreline (tm) and skyhooks (tm) so a personalized hover limo delivery fee might be just the extra perk I am looking for. At a price tbd of course based on sales quantity. I will be using Agency 666 as a marketing team and they are supposed to be the new best in the west so watch for it coming soon to an lcd screen near you!

 

[scmike]

I did the calculations 40 foot container will hold approximately 980 bikes. Assuming he can negotiate a good rate for the transport from Shanghai to the Port of LA shipping cost should be approx. $4,000. From LA if he were to use www.shipbikes.com from LA to Boston the quoted cost for an ebike is $80. The $194 price is pretty steep.

I think it's closer to 224 bikes per standard 40 ft container, But thats up to UPS, DHL or whoever gets the contract to ship.

 

[pxpaulx]

I think it's closer to 224 bikes per standard 40 ft container, But thats up to UPS, DHL or whoever gets the contract to ship.

that sounds about right, my bikes direct fat bike box was about 1ftx3ftx5ft, figure 8 boxes deep, 3 boxes high and 8 to 9 wide to fill a 40ft container.

 

[EULITTLB]

Seriously though, what makes some of us sceptics and others believers? The scam of bandying around one bike only in different guises is so transparent, to reiterate if Ivars had the ability to shut sceptics up at this late stage he would by posting a picture of loads of bits or bikes, but he can't, simple as. Am still struggling to find any info on the outcome of the hearing May 6th....