Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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But all the bikes ordered were shipped and received. Everyone got what they paid for. When I contacted biktrix, response was the same day, usually hours. A new fork was sent the next business day. Sounds like an entirely different business model. Build Junk with very few moving parts, so little can go wrong. Show them one thing, tell them another thing, and deliver what you want, when you please. At least some of the Sonders backers are getting their bikes. What QA issues? I would like to know in case it may affect my safety.
wa5
Well-Known Member
@JoePah wrote..
@wa5 I like being on the winning side. And I'm feeling pretty good about my open assessment of the Sondors CF project.
I admire those who are willing to put themselves out there and take the risk, then deliver.. It's very American. END QUOTE.
I guess Sondors is a "winner" in much the same way that Lance Armstrong is....
Had he been able to deliver ALL bikes (Jury's still out on that) and do so honestly, without ripping people off with both inferior specs than promised and increased costs to consumers for shipping both the bike and the spare battery, with no shipping discounts for referrals as promised, and without having to misappropriate funds that should have went suppliers (in this case Agency 2.0), then ,yep, he might be considered a "winner.
I'd agree that the bike appears to be a decent enough product for the money (and I'd be happy enough owning one at the price). but its a long way from being the product that Sondors was promising.
I guess I'm just not mature enough to realise that crowdfunding means the sell can totally mis represent the product they are hocking, and its' delivery simply by adding the word "estimated" or "projected" to their blurb.. BTW I also have an awful lot of trouble seeing the emperors new clothes.. so its probably just me.
@wa5 I like being on the winning side. And I'm feeling pretty good about my open assessment of the Sondors CF project.
I admire those who are willing to put themselves out there and take the risk, then deliver.. It's very American. END QUOTE.
I guess Sondors is a "winner" in much the same way that Lance Armstrong is....
Had he been able to deliver ALL bikes (Jury's still out on that) and do so honestly, without ripping people off with both inferior specs than promised and increased costs to consumers for shipping both the bike and the spare battery, with no shipping discounts for referrals as promised, and without having to misappropriate funds that should have went suppliers (in this case Agency 2.0), then ,yep, he might be considered a "winner.
I'd agree that the bike appears to be a decent enough product for the money (and I'd be happy enough owning one at the price). but its a long way from being the product that Sondors was promising.
I guess I'm just not mature enough to realise that crowdfunding means the sell can totally mis represent the product they are hocking, and its' delivery simply by adding the word "estimated" or "projected" to their blurb.. BTW I also have an awful lot of trouble seeing the emperors new clothes.. so its probably just me.
@tinasdude , may you can tell us.. There was a Biktrix update that is "Some QA issues" and only backers can read the content.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-the-ultimate-electric-fat-bike/posts/1279906
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-the-ultimate-electric-fat-bike/posts/1279906
scmike
Active Member
JoePah,
Good thing you qualified "Some People", But many people won't consider this a success until all (or very high %) bikes reach their customers. The way this campaign was run is unethical at best... To me #1 priority appears to be ...how can we limit product liability so that it doesn't come back on the campaign owner... Good thing it's just a cheap Chinese bike where expectations are historically very low... If the bikes make it to their EU homes without excessive mark-ups... that will be impressive...
Bad brakes were replaced prior to shipment
FTC Complaint
Active Member
unthical at every level.
A recent Forbes online-article that was written by someone who purchased the bike on Indiegogo called the bike a "STEAL" and he was not mistaken.
1) A civil theft from Agency 2.0 occurred when they were not paid $600,000. So if you have a bike they are subsidizing you.
2) The terms of the contracted stated the shipping would be at cost. So if you have a bike and are not refunded a portion of shipping you have overpaid.
3) Product Liability in this case is "Strict Liability" and with Sondors you have no recourse. This cost is between $35 and $50 a bike and you have been shortchanged that amount
4) Assembly - if you had to bring the bike in for assembly you have overpaid by that amount
5) Warranty - if you tried to exercise a warranty you have been shortchanged
6) Repairs - If you had to pay for repairs out of the box you have been shortchanged
7) Return - If you are unable to return the product then you have a problem
The above items are part of a well considered business plan which costs could cost up to $250 per bike to provide.
What did Storm do that is spectacular? He took advantage of consumerism via a feckless press of which Forbes is a part.
What Storm knows and the majority of eBike manufacturers and all the naysayers don't seem to understand are that style and price is what the customer wants.. Attractive stylish and cheap.. So cheap that many many owners are customizing their bikes with all the money they saved.. And from what I've seen and heard, it will reach deep into the ebike world.
With a steel frame and all off the shelf components, the bike is made to be simple and cheap to fix and upgrade.
Anyone who owns bikes like this know what they are getting.
With a steel frame and all off the shelf components, the bike is made to be simple and cheap to fix and upgrade.
Anyone who owns bikes like this know what they are getting.
I guess some look beyond all the exaggerated specs and false claims and downright lies - 'we guarantee the shipping cost to be less.... much less than....' - and are happy with their purchase however it has been funded........ still waiting on those EU deliveries and the customs charges....... will be interesting to see if the spec is road legal.
I'm with Hurley, all smoke and mirrors, no way 6000+ bikes have been delivered, but anyone can claim anything - maybe 50,000 bikes have been delivered, or under 1000?
I'm with Hurley, all smoke and mirrors, no way 6000+ bikes have been delivered, but anyone can claim anything - maybe 50,000 bikes have been delivered, or under 1000?
Credible Hulk
Active Member
Just wondering... anyone else still waiting for the battery refund that was promised 2 months ago? All I've received from Sondors is email excuses "it'll be there by the end of the week" - over two weeks ago.
Today I got an automated message stating the battery shipments are another indefinite boondoggle for the international customers who were willing to shell out for the $50 cash grab. "More info coming soon" is the perennial excuse, while "second wave" US customers are promised their batteries in October. Translation: "Wait indefinitely while the US customers get their orders, because you second-class steerage customers pay more and get less". No word about any refunds for anyone, of course.
It seems they plan to keep both our money and the batteries we paid for. Par for the course with these crooks.
Today I got an automated message stating the battery shipments are another indefinite boondoggle for the international customers who were willing to shell out for the $50 cash grab. "More info coming soon" is the perennial excuse, while "second wave" US customers are promised their batteries in October. Translation: "Wait indefinitely while the US customers get their orders, because you second-class steerage customers pay more and get less". No word about any refunds for anyone, of course.
It seems they plan to keep both our money and the batteries we paid for. Par for the course with these crooks.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
Happy you are enjoying your new ebike! As for the battery, since they delivered the bike to you with only the usual short crowdfunding delay, maybe you could give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see before trashing them again. After all you did get what you paid for on the bike....
Credible Hulk
Active Member
They've earned their trashing, over and over again. Starting with grossly misrepresenting the specs on their ebike. Sorry but I and others would never have bought an ebike that only has a 10-15 mile range, which of course they knew. Sure, it turned out to be a nicer ebike than I expected, I'll give them that. But with that range its usefulness is limited.
I've waited for over two months for the battery refund already, only emailing them twice during that time. They were the ones offering the refund in the first place - back in early July. I paid the full asking price for this battery back in February, which we were told included the full cost of shipping. Then, months later, they demand more money from people? Ridiculous. When I pay in full for an item, I expect to receive that item without further cash grabs.
Then to add insult to injury, they don't even pay the refunds to customers who chose to accept their refund and not pay their trumped up fee. Another broken promise to add to a long list. And finally, the international customers like me who did give them the $50 won't get their batteries until... Christmas? Next year?
Here's the latest excuse I got from Sondors today, does it look like people can expect their refunds any time soon?
"I apologize that it is taking us longer to issue the refunds than expected, however we do have your marked for a battery refund and will make sure to issue that amount back to you as promised."
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when they do the same for their customers, especially those of us outside the US. Instead they treat us like something that stuck to the bottom of their shoe.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
There comes a time in everyone's life where we must scrutinize our own behavior and due diligence wasn't done by many backers prior to putting money into this campaign. That's not to say everything has been done perfectly in this campaign, but you aren't putting an item from a store shelf into your shopping cart and you can't treat any crowd-funding campaign as such.
Anyway... it looks like you'll get your battery or refund in due time and you received a bike you like, so I look forward to your positive, enthusiastic contributions in the forums here going forward!
Good luck with your new ride and congrats!
Credible Hulk
Active Member
Sorry but this is NOT my fault, due diligence be damned. They were the ones who decided to grab more cash from customers who already paid in full. They were the ones who also offered the option of a refund for those who didn't want to pay. Now they are failing to pay the promised refunds, and this has gone on for weeks (NOT "in due time") and counting, with no end in sight. I believe they never had any intention of paying refunds OR shipping the batteries people paid for. None of this is the customer's fault, and none of this has anything to do with crowdfunding. It's an unscrupulous dealer continuing its pattern of defrauding its customers, plain and simple.
My contributions will continue to be positive or negative depending on the subject matter. If Sondors continues to behave negatively by doing negative things to its customers, that will lead to negative posts by me. If they clean up their act and stop screwing their customers around, then I'll be happy to post positively about it.
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