Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

@flymeaway I am interested in Court's review as well, but I would also like to see details from other owners of the bike - I mean, if there are 6,8,10 people that were the vehement supporters of that bike, why let them come between the views of the other thousands of prospective owners? If it all plays out positively in the end (and NOBODY knows at this point), the bike is still an interesting discussion point, even at $850 or $900 if that ends up being a true price (and the bike continues to sell).
 
Why was my name
Mentioned?

yan Mercer has realised who he has been corresponding with and who commented on his picture of a bike with the forks reversed - so he has deleted my comments and won't correspond (Thanks back Hurley) - I told him not to worry because his bike had been made as had all bikes.....


Storm E-BikeHi Nancy Weissman - All colors are complete and in the process of being shipped from China.
8 · Yesterday at 4:57am

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=602555026549017

So there you have it, all bikes have been made - official.

Apologies to J.R. I can picture him
Getting angry at the length of my posts lol

So, all the bikes have been made? They aren't selling any. They show 40 for October delivery. Storm isn't going to China for 40 bikes. Whatever the people get is what they get. The lawsuit will take forever, if they don't settle, or haven't settled.

Actually, I know all I need to know about the bike, not being a fatbike person. I'd say people saved $300 or $400, and they got a decent bike. They may feel the IGG trip was worth it, maybe not. But it's a bike and you can buy or make other bikes. Geez Louise.

If they do want to offer the bike, I'm confused they declare war on EBR. It's kind of an obvious place to get free publicity, no matter how hostile this thread is. The hostility goes both directions. I followed Phil from Day One of this campaign. Yikes.
 
"Storm isn't going to China for 40 bikes."
40 is a decent order though or one maybe 2 models... The problem is there are 4 color combos and I would guess the 3 colors of plastic lunch boxes aren't just laying around? People who are paying $649 now may have along wait... but they'll take your money and probably demand shipping $ way be October... what a crock..
 
So, all the bikes have been made? They aren't selling any. They show 40 for October delivery. Storm isn't going to China for 40 bikes. Whatever the people get is what they get. The lawsuit will take forever, if they don't settle, or haven't settled.

Actually, I know all I need to know about the bike, not being a fatbike person. I'd say people saved $300 or $400, and they got a decent bike. They may feel the IGG trip was worth it, maybe not. But it's a bike and you can buy or make other bikes. Geez Louise.

If they do want to offer the bike, I'm confused they declare war on EBR. It's kind of an obvious place to get free publicity, no matter how hostile this thread is. The hostility goes both directions. I followed Phil from Day One of this campaign. Yikes.
As far as I know, it's the bike owners who are boycotting EBR. What difference does it make to any bike owners if EBR offers some form of publicity to its insular community?

Are you conflating owners of bikes with owners of the company?
 
As far as I know, it's the bike owners who are boycotting EBR. What difference does it make to any bike owners if EBR offers some form of publicity to its insular community?

Are you conflating owners of bikes with owners of the company?


Is there a company? They had a website, but shifted back to IGG. If this is it, just a CF campaign, then the bikes are already "Orphan Bikes", unless someone supplies parts. That is not a huge deal, but a lot of people on the IGG forum thought this would be some sort of big deal bike company. I figure with their margins on this bike, and the low price, they need 1,000 units a month. Then Sondors would be a brand. But like you say, people got their bikes, what else matters to them? Phil and Bruce may have some issues, if this is the end of the line. Still, you could send a couple of hundred people over here just to throw your weight around. Hey, 7,000 owners of bikes?:cool:

I tend to associate 'insular community' with the Amish. I can't see the separation of this bike from any other bike. It's a CF issue. Those problems just seem to get worse, like the Wave ebike.

It's nothing to me. I'd rather build a bike. I don't think the aggravations of CF make up for the low price that may happen. I don't know if this helps or hurts CF, but IGG can breathe a sigh of relief.
 
How can IGG breath a sigh of relief ... they don't seem human... And besides it will be a long while until all bikes are accounted for. If they even can be... for 240 grand (in 5+ mos.) IGG is not going to do all that much in the follow up CS department...just MHO...
 
May I interrupt with the worlds first review of a Sondors ebike?

(Well Sort Of)

http://www.velomobileshop.com

I watched it too, too bad the rider didn't show us any references, ie, speedometer, battery charge state...or closeups of the bike parts.. at the end of the video it seemed to me that the bike started to bog down...going up a steep hill ?? We'll have to wait until somebody can narrate and tell the viewer what's happening..
 
saved $300 or $400, and they got a decent bike.
then the bikes are already "Orphan Bikes"

George, I have to agree with you in total here.

Folks have purchased a bike $300 off retail, but in exchange for that "savings" the bike is an orphan.
However, the idea was sold as a going concern; rather than a hit and run. Storm is responsible for that shortfall.


I'd say people IGG can breathe a sigh of relief.

That is for sure as well. With so many ludicrous or fraudulent campaigns non-delivery here would make the platform even more sketchy. The folks backing IGG will eventually look to go public and thus cash out earning billions in the process. That is the whole point of the Storm (and other campaigns) on IGG. The little guy raising money or buying a product is mostly irrelevant.

I'd rather build a bike.

Agreed.

bike owners who are boycotting EBR

Bike owners found EBR after the fact, after they made a spontaneous emotion based purchase. There is no "feel-good" confirmation bias to be found here. Although this is a good place for buyers remorse. I would hope that the site will become a resource to them once the dust settles and should they want to buy a better-second-replacement bike.

Sy Syms used to say "An Educated Consumer is our Best Customer" The Storm bike is going to provide lots of people with an education one way or the other. Education is what EBR is about.

To some extent, the marketing effort did an intentional end run around the EBR and Endless Sphere "community" because there was nothing to be gained other than inconvenient truths by people more knowledgeable about the product than Storm was himself at the time of his offering. He was an ebike ignoramus at the time of the offering. In terms of paying his bills he is a slick fellow, by not paying his bills he is smarter than everyone else. (the deadbeat's credo, I am smarter than you because I p'owned you)

(I would hope and think Storm now has an education on this topic) After the lawsuit, and all the bikes are delivered, we will find more out about his continuing education.


 
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I watched it too, too bad the rider didn't show us any references, ie, speedometer, battery charge state...or closeups of the bike parts.. at the end of the video it seemed to me that the bike started to bog down...going up a steep hill ?? We'll have to wait until somebody can narrate and tell the viewer what's happening..
Well, there is no speedometer shown, but you can calculate the speed since it's easy to figure out that the video was recorded in Grass Valley, CA.

I took the section on the Idaho Maryland Rd from the Brunswick Rd crossing to the Sutton Way crossing. According to google maps it's a distance of about 0.8 km (0.5 miles). This section is shown in the video from about 7:10 to 8:31, so it takes about 81 seconds to cover that distance. Hence the speed is roughly 35 km/h or 22 miles/h.
 
I watched it too, too bad the rider didn't show us any references, ie, speedometer, battery charge state...or closeups of the bike parts.. at the end of the video it seemed to me that the bike started to bog down...going up a steep hill ?? We'll have to wait until somebody can narrate and tell the viewer what's happening..

His Morgan pedal car and Velomobile looks awesome. If that fellow can build his own super-cool epic Velomobile why would he want to buy a cheap ebike?

Epic ->
http://www.velomobileshop.com
 
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FTC,
Hmm, wasn't the Wave Ebike also available before IGG... therefore should not have been eligible for CF?? But I would not want to get on the Russians bad side... so why take that chance...
 
George, you seem upset that the Sonders ebike campaign isn't turning itself into some kind of ongoing business venture. Why is that? The majority of CF campaigns are just campaigns. Yes, some do turn into businesses and even have multiple product lines eventually, but that's not the norm. I'm sure lots of campaign owners have visions of becoming a business but the reality can be quite different.

Campaigns have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Why the expectation that Sonders should or must sell ebikes at some certain rate after the initial goals were reached? Sales trickle at the end of a campaign, which is normal. And sometimes sales stop altogether, which is also not uncommon. The campaign itself moved on to the next phase -- this phase is one in which execution and delivery have to occur, which will continue over a few months or possibly longer than a few months, depending. If someone wants to get a Sonders bike there is a method to do so. And if not, no harm, no foul.

And finally, so what if Sonders eBike purchasers don't join EBR to report on their eBikes? Court is on the list to get one and he'll do a review at some point. Why the angst about other people not reporting their experiences about this ebike on EBR? Why should they? EBR is a great resource, one I personally like, but it's not the center of the Interwebs/world.

@PowerMe

In the early days, when they were clicking $10,000 an hour, it was hard not to see some longer term potential. A lot of the campaigns that get into the millions want to have a product at the end. Nobody sells that many ebikes, so I can't imagine someone NOT wanting to continue with something.

It was an A2 marketing campaign, wrapped around an ebike, with a quasi-celebrity frontman. Something went horribly wrong. So, what could they have done? What should they have done? Just not what they did, basically.

It's like they created a brand, an appealing product and poured gasoline on it, set it ablaze. I guess by watching the campaign we got a view of the world in that reddish glow.

You have to try to figure the personalities. Only way it makes sense.
 
Delivery notifications for Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, and Alaska today. It's almost like a storm is rolling across the country.
 
Delivery notifications for Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, and Alaska today. It's almost like a storm is rolling across the country.

When I see something other than a steaming pile rolling across other countries (whose customers paid a lot more for shipping) I'll be more impressed. In the meantime I won't be getting out my umbrella yet.
 
Not Sam, I have visited the ride impressions threads only once, and then only to advise the bike DOES have pedal assist, how is that negative?.

I think the "they" that was mentioned would be Sondors themselves, it could only do the campaign good, to have some reviews from real world users circulating, as sales have stalled.

I would think that both Sondors and you, his loyal subjects, would be happily shouting to the world every detail about your bikes, if only to give people like me a two fingered salute and an "I told you so".. I think if agency 2.0 were still at the wheel, they would be encouraging this, whatever I might think of them personally, they did run a masterful campaign.

Not Sam, why the continued hating on Prodecotec? I thought that was only a Hillis thing, has it gone Sondors wide? .. or not.
 
Potential maybe. Besides, you're assuming Sonders wanted to run a company; maybe he did and then again maybe he didn't.

For some reason it really matters to you that Sonders turns into a company and not just be 1 campaign with 1 bike that sold a bunch. Why do you care what Sonders does or doesn't do wrt building a company?

Well, Sondors ended up in control, because they gave him the money. I don't think that was supposed to happen. Once Sondors exercised his rights on the money, Agency was massively F*&##d. Prison laundry gang rape f'd. Sondo didn't just say "I've got the money, all the money". He wrote them bad checks. You're assuming Sondors was the 'leader' from the start. Sondors was the leader after he pushed Mr. Hopp aside. And then Chris and A2.

I assume Sondo does NOT want to run a company, but I assume Sondo was supposed to be a celebrity spokesman and a guy who goes to China and makes a bike. A bike he barely understood in the EBR video of the demo day. A bike he couldn't possibly have designed. But a bike he could build because he lived in Asia, knew that game.
 
Bad Bearings on Sondors Ebike

OR The Bearing is good and the Assembler Made a Mistake on Tightening

OR Poorly machined bearing surface



Brake Most Likely not Mounted on the Frame Properly, or frame is askew and not allowing the caliper to be aligned so the wheel is centered.

OR

It could be a matter of centralizing the brake over the rotor.

OR

The fork (which he mentions as opposed to the frame) could be out of tolerance; or the brakes are cheap and therefore don't' come with a set of washers



Mike, seems to be having fun on the bike... The squeak at the end of the video is a bit scary. Mechanical stuff complaining is never a good sign.

 
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@FTC Complaint have you never seen like, any mountain bike video, ever? Riding over a log is practically a requisite. Try harder next time!

On a serious note, the bad rubbing brake is probably a bent rotor, fairly common. An untrue wheel wouldn't normally affect the brake and rotor. Happens to bikes direct buyers ask the time...granted bikes direct will respond promptly and send a replacement!
 
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