Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

My current container is being held by customs for a detailed inspection, as was my last. In 12 years I had never had a detailed inspection before. Regardless a customs delay does not mean anything.

Thanks,
Yan

Thanks for the honesty! It seems then that this sort of thing is likely done randomly, as one would expect a certain percentage of random container inspections to occur on a regular basis, along with searches conducted based on specific knowledge.

@wa5 you did kinda use Hitler in an analogy, that was in quite poor taste any way you slice it.
 
Ian,

You have noticed that Olenik, Chaupin, and Sondors are all part of the campaign team (again). Why?

Because the website was never updated; the court date is still set for late July.

As to the tariff schedule for assembled and motorized bicycles; the code you cite does not apply here as far as I can tell.

The CPSC has the authority to Seize products, or destroy products) that violate mandatory standards. CPSC’s Office of Import Surveillance (EXIS) works closely with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to identify and examine imported shipments of consumer products. As part of this effort, EXIS has co-located investigators at many of the largest ports of entry who work side-by-side with CBP staff. EXIS also works to educate importers, manufacturers, and Customs brokers on CPSC’s standards and procedures.

A detailed inspection would look to paperwork including a certificate of conformity that the goods meet US standards.

The RAM was developed to meet the requirements of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA) of 2008, which directed CPSC to create a risk assessment methodology to identify products imported into the U.S. that are most likely to violate consumer product safety statutes and regulations.

CPSC has been screening products at ports since the agency began operating in 1973. The agency intensified its efforts in 2008 with the creation of an import surveillance division and again in 2011 with the creation of the Office of Import Surveillance.

I am certain that the CPSC is quite aware of the Sondors campaign and has been acting in coordination with other agencies.

The battery, the bike, the paperwork, will all be a potential issues and concerns at customs.

If the US is not a problem, then the bikes will be very difficult to move into Europe and potentially Canada (I once saw a Canada Customs and Revenue tax the jeans taxed off a guy going from US to Canada on Amtrak because the customs guy saw a Walmart price tag.)

This campaign is a cluster f*ck brought to you by a deadbeat sociopath, ask for your money back.
 
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3 hours ago
Customs has delayed shipping to backers. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about this, but the first several containers that made it to port are currently under customs review and we're told this could be a two week delay. We'll keep you all updated as we learn more. In the mean time, assembly is still going strong and containers are still be shipped out from China.
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Storm Sondors

Next on the Ivars Dog & Pony Show:

Nick Go Sondors Zendesk said:
- Shipping
The shipping price is currently at $194 for U.S. shipping and $247 for international shipping and may go up in the future do to new Lithium Battery shipping regulations that happened after the initial shipping cost was calculated.
From their email to me dated May 27.

Speculation (tongue in cheek):
Maybe US Customs noticed the containers full of empty boxes and are demanding Ivars send something to put in them. That's assuming US Customs is the real cause of this latest delay. Or maybe Toyjobs managed to get a court order to hold them until Ivars pays up.

Either way, get your wallets ready for another assault.
 
Regardless a customs delay does not mean anything.

Thanks,
Yan

I agree if the issue is simply an inspection. I have been importing from China since 1987 and to date I have never had a container delayed or inspected. When I went to find the HTSUS # I was surprised to see the number of sub-categories. I have no way of knowing but it appears some of the sub's require payment of a tariff. It could certainly be as simple as an inspection, or something more significant.

Court J.
 
Next on the Ivars Dog & Pony Show:


From their email to me dated May 27.

Speculation (tongue in cheek):
Maybe US Customs noticed the containers full of empty boxes and are demanding Ivars send something to put in them. That's assuming US Customs is the real cause of this latest delay. Or maybe Toyjobs managed to get a court order to hold them until Ivars pays up.

Either way, get your wallets ready for another assault.

Or use all this mucking about (and changing terms) to demand cancellation of your contract either directly or i small claims court (If you happen to live in CA)
 
I agree if the issue is simply an inspection. I have been importing from China since 1987 and to date I have never had a container delayed or inspected. When I went to find the HTSUS # I was surprised to see the number of sub-categories. I have no way of knowing but it appears some of the sub's require payment of a tariff. It could certainly be as simple as an inspection, or something more significant.

Court J.

I pay tariff as soon as the containers get to the USA. I think my duty rate is 11%.

Thanks,
Yan
 
I pay tariff as soon as the containers get to the USA. I think my duty rate is 11%.

Thanks,
Yan

Is the tariff you pay on bicycle parts or an assembled bicycle?

Asking Storm whether or not he would be subject to tariffs and import duties was a question asked of him early on. It was one of the many unanswered questions.
 
Have to wonder if any of our lovely trolls made some kind of allegation to US Customs to damage Storm's project?

Based on their baseless comments and libelous statements, probably a lot more likely than anything Storm has done that cause a delay.
 
Have to wonder if any of our lovely trolls made some kind of allegation to US Customs to damage Storm's project?

Based on their baseless comments and libelous statements, probably a lot more likely than anything Storm has done that cause a delay.

1) Storm has a judgement against him for civil fraud due to nonpayment and an outstanding lawsuit for the same = Deadbeat
2) The CPSC, CPB, and FTC were all alerted to the fact that this bike will not conform to laws or standards
3) Storm cannot pay everyone and provide a bike at the same time. 11% vig on import is just one of the unconsidered costs, paying agency 2.0, buying product liability insurance, providing customer support these are all too expensive to provide.

My guess, based on his court filing, is that Storm wanted to go to court and say he delivered some of the promised product already and if he paid 2.0 he could not complete the project.

It is still quite amazing how those in denial get angry.. that process is called cognitive dissonance. A logical argument, or factual talking points cannot be developed so anger it is.

The only damage done to Storm and to the naive buyers of the bike is by/from Storm himself. A business person would consider costs, laws, process, and capabilities before making any promise to deliver. If you bought a bike you have been had.

I recall that I pay 11% on complete bikes and 8% on parts.

Thanks,
Yan

@tynanwrites on twitter might be interested in that as looks like Storms story will likely resurface in the news as it continues to fail and flail.
 
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IGG page "See More Details"

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Hmm, I wonder whom Sondors is referring to in the "From there, we built a prototype ..." The prototype he must be talking about is Jon Hopp's
7000 watt chainless yellow and green bike... the "Demo, yellow and orange bike came later... I just drove past his house, Malibu I think... I guess I could have stopped to ask... but I was just happy to be free of the LA trafic and cruising up the coast towards home...
 
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That kills the hopeful dissonance and magical thinking that "everything is back to where it was between Agency 2.0 and Sondors." A lawsuit makes reconciliation an impossibility as it is a costly last resort to take as an expression of failure.

And yet, they are again listed as campaigners at indiegogo? Lawsuits are standard fare here in America when anything goes awry in business and are often resolved amicably. Unless you are often involved with them yourself and would know otherwise?
 
JoePah waffled on with some insulting garbage QUOTE
Have to wonder if any of our lovely trolls made some kind of allegation to US Customs to damage Storm's project?

Based on their baseless comments and libelous statements, probably a lot more likely than anything Storm has done that cause a delay. ( END QUOTE)

Careful honey, your Hillis is showing.

I'd expect such utter garbage, such a paranoid comment from Biknut, but honestly, I'd expect better from you. This looks like it came straight from the playbook of the Sondors owners group (a misnomer if ever there was one).

Baseless and Libelous? Have we been taking part in the same conversation for the past 5 months? surely I don't need to list Sondors Lies, failures and frauds yet again (and risk the ire of Power Me :) ).

There have been enough Sondors customers complaining to regulatory authorities (based on statements here and on Ians page), Maybe, just maybe the monolithic system that is the US government actually worked, and an alert was sent from the consumer protection agency to customs?

Its interesting that Sondors wrote "containerS", So I'm guessing that means more than one? also since they appear to have all of Sondors shipped stock, this may well be targeted at his items, the question is why.

Of course, that is assuming there are any containers in US waters / on US Soil in the first place.
 
And yet, they are again listed as campaigners at indiegogo? Lawsuits are standard fare here in America when anything goes awry in business and are often resolved amicably. Unless you are often involved with them yourself and would know otherwise?

Jon Hopp is still MIA...
 
Futco posted a completely incomprehensible tweet about the A 2.0 and the customs delay. Dan Tynan said it was probably about duties. It's clear Agency speaks for IGG, is inseparable from IGG. Why wouldn't they remove their personnel from the IGG/Sondors page, if they were not working something out? They still want a piece of the glory for the second most successful campaign, but they want the campaign to go down in flames? Wow. Nice.

Futco wants this thing to fail. Every box with a bike is owned by a campaign contributor. Anything that comes due, any fee or duty, will be the responsibility of that person. Storm has nothing to do with this now. If CPSC sends the bikes back to China, the guy or gal with his name on the box loses.

So all people are doing is hurting the poor slob who bought into this, who wanted a bike. I buy something from China, and I pay no duty. These people? Well, they are pawns in a big game now.

Way to go Futco. You are my first 'Ignore List' Champion!
 
pxpaulx said.... @wa5 you did kinda use Hitler in an analogy, that was in quite poor taste any way you slice it. END.

Yes in comparing really lousy delivery time for the Copenhagen and FlyKly in comparison to Storms as yet undelivered product.. and how people should expect better, NOT ONCE did I compare any person with Hitler, I was using an analogy to compare two separate, unacceptable situations. coparing bad with worse.

You'd have to be drawing a pretty long bow to suggest I was calling Storm anything nasty in that comment.

As for using Hitler (or anybody else) as a reference point, yep, it was a terrible time in history, but it did in fact occur, and if I choose to use any point in history, good or bad, as a reference I shall do so.
 
George S, I've always wanted to see funders get their bikes, and for those bikes to be of an acceptable quality. BUT, if I were a competitor in the market, and found that storm was side stepping costs that I had to pay, would I try to find a way to shut him down? you bet I would.

By using crowdfunding Storm has escaped quite a few costs that local traders must endure, some legal, some questionable and probably a few that are downright shady. perhaps the containers are being held due to a tip off from another E bike vendor that suspects or knows that Storm is trying to avoid a cost that vendor had to pay...

not sure about how Uber is perceived in the US, but French Taxi drivers have made their feelings about it very clear. in my country, Australia, a set of Taxi Number Plates can cost quarter of a million dollars, Hire car plates around 70k (Hire cars are like limos in the states . generally a lwb Fairlane or Caprice) compare that to uber where you can set up with a decent late model car and an I pad for ten grand.
 
So all people are doing is hurting the poor slob who bought into this


My actions demanding accountability are not depriving anyone of a product they paid for.

Great efforts were made by myself, Tynan, Court, Ann, and others to slow down, challenge, and stop the propaganda campaign of Storm IGG and Agency 2.0 before people were financially burned. I also tried (at great civil risk to myself at one point, with veiled threats flying from a deep pocketed party that could have easily slap suited me) to find accountability by providing people with a suggested approach for recourse. Court did a series of videos to properly and truthfully frame representations. Where was Storm? Where was IGG? Where was the LA Times, Julie Bort, doing puff pieces? Propaganda now prevails, even reviews for books are written by a bunch of positive spinning interns. Control the information landscape and control the consumer. (Frederick Pohl)

As propaganda would have it, most consumers detrimentally relied on a retracted article in Yahoo that described a Tesla like miracle cure based on, word for word, the false representations by Sondors and company. Preventing the juggernaut of viral-and-greed-infected consumers was an impossibility because the damage done by an irresponsible press and the ensuing viral meme cannot be countered. IGG then failed to step in even when they were confronted by the retraction in Yahoo.

At the end of the day, "the poor slob" (your words not mine) is responsible for his own lack of diligence. Nor am I responsible for the failures of IGG, Agency 2.0, and Storm to meet their shared obligation to the consumer. Do I want Storm to fail? Storm failed the consumer from day one and that is his responsibility! He owns the failure not I. The "poor slob" (your words not mine) aka the consumer needs to become a responsible citizen by stepping up to the plate and advocating for themselves against Storm and IGG using every legal means possible including the FTC CA AG CPB CPSC.

Whistleblowing vs. self-interest or greed;
Recently on this forum we have discussed Uber, crowdfunding, and the fallacy of the sharing economy. Storm buyers took the hit immediately when they purchased the bike without doing research. The Whistle-blowing on crowd-funding needs to continue using Sondors and his failure as its poster-boy. Airing CPAP and Raise Money for Greece are other examples of fools parted from their money; meanwhile IGG Paypal, Branson, and big boys get paid first! to hell with the consumer or the citizens of Greece who get nothing.

IGG, and the multi-party structure in crowdfunding, intentionally put the consumer in last place! by design, terms of use, and with false terminology.

In re Wave, they seem to be considering their business plan more realistically having been honest enough to say they could not sell internationally. They also acknowledged a need to conform to law and regulation. Rad Rover did an even better job of it. Sondors does not care, thus you are going to see a string of disappointments as he continues his failure to properly fulfill.

The deniers will just rationalize..and point blame for whistle-blowing rather than accepting responsibility for self to those folks I say sit on it and spin.

And George, the tweet liked from Agency 2.0 PROVES that there is no reconciliation! You just managed to spread a false-rumor that other folks looking for confirmation bias are now in desperation grabbing onto. Thanks for spreading a false rumor!

The Storm campaign will continue to die a slow and painful death as each nail is pounded into the coffin, not to say that some folks might get a Cheap Chinese bike while others (most likely in Europe) will not.

Who is John Galt? Who is Jon Hopp?
 
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