Solving which Ebike to buy/build has become a hobby

[Merle Nelson]

I've had a brooks seat, it was ****. I've had a $55 selle royale respiro seat, it was ****. Cloud 9 won't fit a 1.240" diameter seat post. Suspension posts won't fit a 1.240" diameter seat post. The seat rails to 9/16" seat post converter failed 2 different ways. I have a $32 Uno rail seat, it is merely unbearable after 4 hours.
The ugly ebikeling electrical system has lasted 4 years & 5500 (of 8000) miles. NO electrical failures. No loose batteries, stuck in batteries, ittermittant batteries, stolen batteries. 2 times somebody tried to steal the battery while I was shopping, and failed. The invisible ASI electrical system with short wires burnt up in a rainstorm after 18 months & 1500 miles.

Indianajo would you like it if a suspension seat post would fit a 1.240" dia post hole? A Kinekt?

 

[jplanaux]

Nice! Which bike are you building?

Trek Dual sport 2. I am for sure going to install mid drive. I really want the torque sensor. I ride normally without assist 25-30 miles about 5x week. Since I will get assist, I need to extend the range. I still want to get an equivalent amount of cardio. So I don't exactly know how much distance and time to add to my normal ride.

 

[jplanaux]

Welcome to EBR Jp. Your comprehensive post begs the question, So what are your requirements?

I ride for exercise only. I presently ride 25-30 miles and I ride about 5x week. So I want an bike to help with the hills, but I still want to finish my ride with the same amount of cardio. So what I don't know is how much further I have to ride to give me the same workout.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So many newbies think the DIY/conversion makes a decent e-bike. This (kind of) reminds me of the origin of the word "a car", derived from those horse drawn carriages equipped with an internal combustion engine. After a while, the automotive industry started designing "motor cars" that were a motor car from the first moment. Here, let me end drawing a parallel before some notable members of this Forum become really upset

@jplanaux: As you have described it, you ride asphalt for exercise, and your rides are pretty long. Your current ride is a Trek Dual Sport. You are probably an able cyclist, and you need a lightweight, reliable e-bike that could be ridden without assistance, and the assistance would only be used against the headwind or for climbing hills.

My advice is you book a demo ride for a Specialized Turbo Vado SL. I am 60, plagued with three major ailments. One of these ailments means bad legs (that cannot be improved). Vado SL has become my everyday ride. Just look at my avatar To complete the description, I really love very long rides, with a Metric Century being my favourite distance, and with a single Imperial Century made so far.

No hassle, beautiful most modern lightweight e-bike with low power motor and lightweight battery, covered by an excellent warranty, and even not that expensive.

 

[EMGX]

Trek Dual sport 2. I am for sure going to install mid drive. I really want the torque sensor. I ride normally without assist 25-30 miles about 5x week. Since I will get assist, I need to extend the range. I still want to get an equivalent amount of cardio. So I don't exactly know how much distance and time to add to my normal ride.

That looks like a very nice bike. Since you indicated that you have already read up about mid drives I'm sure that you are aware that about the only common torque sensing option is the Tongsheng TSDZ2, which I think would be an excellent choice given what you indicate. It does look like you will have to deal with cable routing if you have cables that run under the bottom bracket. If your down tube has a prominent lip at the bottom bracket where the cables exit that could be an issue with fitment - again I'm sure you are aware of that already from your reading.

I ride much as you describe, I mostly need assist on steeper grades and appreciate it running into headwinds or when I'm getting tired or when I just want to get somewhere more quickly. The 130+ miles that I put on a single charge of a cheap 48v 15ah battery consisted of assist used in those situations and level 1 or even 0 when riding on flat portions. You might not need to ride much farther to get the similar cardio, on steep inclines you can get as much exercise as you want, while avoiding over exertion, by choosing the desired power level and on flatter routes you get more of a workout riding without assist because of the added weight of the bike. If you have a smart watch you can probably keep track of your workout (I don't have one, just guessing).

Steven Mikes makes a good point about high quality ready made bikes like his turbo vado. 33 pounds for that bike is impressive but max assist on that bike is half what the tsdz2 can provide. If weight is important to you the tongsheng is listed at 3.6kg, so swapping out your crank assembly and removing your front shifter means an added wt of maybe 2.5kg (?) plus the battery wt of ~2kg if you go small.

My Yamaha powered BH Rebel gravel bike had a list price of $3400 (I paid less than half of that, new) and to me bikes, and especially ebikes, are ridiculously overpriced for what you get. I bought a Italian hand assembled motorcycle with 750cc, abs, traction control etc that cost $7400. Bike manufacturers have a lot of hubris to charge any where near as much for a bicycle with not a tiny fraction of the technology and substance - just my opinion, of course.

Nice thing about the tongsheng is if you decide all this ebike stuff is nonsense you can return your bike to its regular configuration easily.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I ride for exercise only. I presently ride 25-30 miles and I ride about 5x week. So I want an bike to help with the hills, but I still want to finish my ride with the same amount of cardio. So what I don't know is how much further I have to ride to give me the same workout.

I ride a 18 pound road bike, a 39 pound e-gravel bike (Bosch powered), and a 65 pound Watt Wagons UC Pro commuter with a very powerful Bafang motor.
One of my favourite rides is 70km and only has a couple of hills. This Fall I rode all three bikes along that route. I was a bit more tired riding my road bike, but not much more.

No matter which bike I ride I tend to put in the same amount of energy. The biggest difference between all three bikes on the ride was how long it took me to complete it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No matter which bike I ride I tend to put in the same amount of energy. The biggest difference between all three bikes on the ride was how long it took me to complete it.

That is very correct.
However, big hills make a big difference and there I prefer my full power Vado 5.0 for sure (even if it is heavier than the SL).

 

[PedalUma]

The extra wire gets tucked into the hidden compartment behind the chainring. That's how to adjust the length. For through-frame you need to cut and splice, but the splice is also hidden inside the compartment.

The underside of a Brooks saddle needs to be treated otherwise it is as hard a wood. I use glycerin, and bran oil. Then bounce on it with my heals until it gets springy. The final part is using equine leather products on the underside. Then it is nice. The best.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No matter which bike I ride I tend to put in the same amount of energy. The biggest difference between all three bikes on the ride was how long it took me to complete it.

I have reconsidered that.
You tend to put in the same amount of leg power. Energy is power times time. If you had pedalled your WattWagon with some average power for 2 hours and then you rode your traditional bike for 4 hours to complete the same distance with the same leg power, you actually expedited twice as much of energy for the unpowered ride.

Is there any catch that is missing me?

If I ride a long ride, say 100 km, my BLEvo app tells me how much of my own energy I input during the ride on either of my Specialized e-bikes. The app also tells me what my own contribution to the ride has been. My typical contribution is 25% on the full power Vado and it is 50% on Vado SL. Thoughts?

P.S. Even simpler. If you complete the same distance in half of the time you cover it without assistance it simply means the motor has contributed with 50% of energy needed for the ride. Or, your workout is half as effective if assisted.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I ride for exercise only. I presently ride 25-30 miles and I ride about 5x week. So I want an bike to help with the hills, but I still want to finish my ride with the same amount of cardio. So what I don't know is how much further I have to ride to give me the same workout.

I went back and read your original post and notice that you didn't directly ask for advice. But, on the chance that it's useful to you I will type a bit more.

I'm big on results when it comes to tools and equipment. What can give me the result I want? Based on your posts I won't say anything about my bikes that give me the results (I) want in mountain bike situations.

From your first post and even more with your response to me I have thought PedalUma's frequent focus on ebikes would meet your needs. He installs what I think of as kits. The TSDZ2 that was mentioned by a couple of other people as well. What does that give you?

I went to his place of business once to talk with him and get some first hand experience with that kind of conversion. He brought out a bike and showed me and I couldn't believe how light it was - how little weight the kit added to the bike. He was going to let me ride it and I'm thinking up and down the block but he generously took me out on a miles long ride across town. The ride included lots of flat at higher speeds, shifting up and down some, and then going up a steep hill. My experience of that bike/build was that everything was fluid and effortless. The bike added power to my novice riding skills in a way that felt like my legs were superhuman. I could not feel easily where my legs stopped providing power and the motor added in. Totally different feel than my powerful and super powerful bikes where I can obviously tell they are kicking in and doing the work. A very, very, nice experience.

If you click on his avatar and then on it again you can select to look at his past posts and read some of what he says about that type of conversion as well as see many pictures of same.

He has a website for his business. If I had an interest in doing my own conversion and lived at a great distance I would see if I could pay him a consulting fee to get me right to the proper components and completed project without making missteps. Results, is what I like.

 

[tomjasz]

I went back and read your original post and notice that you didn't directly ask for advice. But, on the chance that it's useful to you I will type a bit more.

I'm big on results when it comes to tools and equipment. What can give me the result I want? Based on your posts I won't say anything about my bikes that give me the results (I) want in mountain bike situations.

From your first post and even more with your response to me I have thought PedalUma's frequent focus on ebikes would meet your needs. He installs what I think of as kits. The TSDZ2 that was mentioned by a couple of other people as well. What does that give you?

I went to his place of business once to talk with him and get some first hand experience with that kind of conversion. He brought out a bike and showed me and I couldn't believe how light it was - how little weight the kit added to the bike. He was going to let me ride it and I'm thinking up and down the block but he generously took me out on a miles long ride across town. The ride included lots of flat at higher speeds, shifting up and down some, and then going up a steep hill. My experience of that bike/build was that everything was fluid and effortless. The bike added power to my novice riding skills in a way that felt like my legs were superhuman. I could not feel easily where my legs stopped providing power and the motor added in. Totally different feel than my powerful and super powerful bikes where I can obviously tell they are kicking in and doing the work. A very, very, nice experience.

If you click on his avatar and then on it again you can select to look at his past posts and read some of what he says about that type of conversion as well as see many pictures of same.

He has a website for his business. If I had an interest in doing my own conversion and lived at a great distance I would see if I could pay him a consulting fee to get me right to the proper components and completed project without making missteps. Results, is what I like.

A stellar post! Thank you! I should learn to be as kind and thorough as you! Well written!

 

[PedalUma]

my novice riding skills

@Merle Nelson is also modest. He regularly does 60-mile rides across bridges and around the hilly SF Bay on a sweet drop bar bikepacking/touring chromoly bike. I first met him at an intersection hours from his home and somehow he looked me up months later. He is a true rider's rider. I talked about the pro pedaling technique of the back sweep from 6 O-clock to 10 to prevent spikes in the controller. I think that gave him the sensation of fluid smoothness that day. The ride we took was a blast. I rode a three-speed that cooks and does not look electric.

 

[Merle Nelson]

A stellar post! Thank you! I should learn to be as kind and thorough as you! Well written!

Tom......you son of a gun.....you just did it! Very, very nice compliment from an admired contributor here. Thank you!

 

[tomjasz]

Tom......you son of a gun.....you just did it! Very, very nice compliment from an admired contributor here. Thank you!

Oh oh. I could lose my merit badge!

 

[jplanaux]

If you want a torque sensor, I don't think your have much option.

TSDZ2 or CYC X1 would be the option.

Depending on your goal but it think TSDZ2 would be a better option because you said you still want to get cardio workout.

Yes. I'm leaning towards the TSDZ2.

 

[jplanaux]

So many newbies think the DIY/conversion makes a decent e-bike. This (kind of) reminds me of the origin of the word "a car", derived from those horse drawn carriages equipped with an internal combustion engine. After a while, the automotive industry started designing "motor cars" that were a motor car from the first moment. Here, let me end drawing a parallel before some notable members of this Forum become really upset

@jplanaux: As you have described it, you ride asphalt for exercise, and your rides are pretty long. Your current ride is a Trek Dual Sport. You are probably an able cyclist, and you need a lightweight, reliable e-bike that could be ridden without assistance, and the assistance would only be used against the headwind or for climbing hills.

My advice is you book a demo ride for a Specialized Turbo Vado SL. I am 60, plagued with three major ailments. One of these ailments means bad legs (that cannot be improved). Vado SL has become my everyday ride. Just look at my avatar To complete the description, I really love very long rides, with a Metric Century being my favourite distance, and with a single Imperial Century made so far.

No hassle, beautiful most modern lightweight e-bike with low power motor and lightweight battery, covered by an excellent warranty, and even not that expensive.

I understand weight and how its effects on cycling. And I would like to buy a brand new ready made solution. I also failed to mention that my costs are going to be double. My riding partner is my wife and I have to convert a bike for her also. So cost is something I am considering. If I can save $1000 per bike, then I'm probably going to go that route.

 

[jplanaux]

I went back and read your original post and notice that you didn't directly ask for advice. But, on the chance that it's useful to you I will type a bit more.

I'm big on results when it comes to tools and equipment. What can give me the result I want? Based on your posts I won't say anything about my bikes that give me the results (I) want in mountain bike situations.

From your first post and even more with your response to me I have thought PedalUma's frequent focus on ebikes would meet your needs. He installs what I think of as kits. The TSDZ2 that was mentioned by a couple of other people as well. What does that give you?

I went to his place of business once to talk with him and get some first hand experience with that kind of conversion. He brought out a bike and showed me and I couldn't believe how light it was - how little weight the kit added to the bike. He was going to let me ride it and I'm thinking up and down the block but he generously took me out on a miles long ride across town. The ride included lots of flat at higher speeds, shifting up and down some, and then going up a steep hill. My experience of that bike/build was that everything was fluid and effortless. The bike added power to my novice riding skills in a way that felt like my legs were superhuman. I could not feel easily where my legs stopped providing power and the motor added in. Totally different feel than my powerful and super powerful bikes where I can obviously tell they are kicking in and doing the work. A very, very, nice experience.

If you click on his avatar and then on it again you can select to look at his past posts and read some of what he says about that type of conversion as well as see many pictures of same.

He has a website for his business. If I had an interest in doing my own conversion and lived at a great distance I would see if I could pay him a consulting fee to get me right to the proper components and completed project without making missteps. Results, is what I like.

This forum is awesome. I have looked at several of PedalUma's posts. I am also convinced that one can make a nice looking conversion. Yes there are newbies ... and then there are NEWBIES. Remember that the Wright Brothers were newbies ... and they had a bicycle repair background.

 

[AHicks]

I understand weight and how its effects on cycling. And I would like to buy a brand new ready made solution. I also failed to mention that my costs are going to be double. My riding partner is my wife and I have to convert a bike for her also. So cost is something I am considering. If I can save $1000 per bike, then I'm probably going to go that route.

Knowing what it cost me to build our first 2 bikes, I think it's pretty safe to assume you are NOT going to save anything near 1000 per bike. Not unless you think your bikes will compare favorably against something in the 3-4k range of comparable over the counter bikes.

The biggest issue I found was hanging the battery in a manner where the bike didn't appear to be a home built.

Our bikes were very successfull, and ended up selling for nearly what they cost, but that was the result of a lot of pretty careful work. Those bikes cost about what RAD bikes were going for back then. Knowing what I know now, I would have been further ahead buying those.

 

[EMGX]

If you can get by with smaller battery capacity then there are options that don't look bad.
I have no personal experience with this $169 36v 8ah battery but I have other cheap Amazon sourced batteries that have worked flawlessly for me so far. For my riding 10ah batteries last for at least 50 miles, actually I've never run one down to cut off including >60 miles of riding. YMMV.



I have no need for another battery but if I was in the market I'd try this one out (and hope for the best).

 

[tomjasz]

8ah battery

I've found my small <8Ah batteries get hot when pushed. 36V below 15A is OK. My old Luna 52V 6-7Ah Was dead in one and a half seasons of use and running it on the motor it was sold for. The BBSHD just got it damn hot.

That said I've moved backward and now have 36V 17Ah and higher batteries. All 52V going to salvage. They aged out not tired from heavy use. My longest-lasting batteries have been my well-managed 36V ("Satiated"). 2- 2014 batteries and being replaced this past month. Works for me!

I know you don't agree, but those uber-cheap batteries scare me. I have a couple and they were OK. But didn't last as long as my EM3ev batts. Not even close.