Solar Powered Homes

[J.R.]

I have been doing research for a test ride, so to speak. I've looked into smaller solar systems for an out building, small cottage or cabin. Probably doable. As a whole house or community solution, I'm not convinced we are there yet.

Even from a supportive media there are so many accounts of roofs being destroyed and houses damaged. Local news "on your side" segments are all over YouTube, blogs and forums. Then there is the issue of roof replacement. Most companies offer one removal and reinstall, but owners sometimes find the company out of business. Homeowners insurance rates are increasing at an alarming rate. This is due to roof damage/leaks and fires from batteries. I saw one local news report where a solar panel on the roof caught fire. I never knew that was possible. This was not some DIY project on a shack in the woods.

Several state legislatures are allowing utilities to charge for service even if you don't use any grid power. Called a minimum charge to maintain the grid. I was also surprised to find that not all utilities will buy excess power generated by private solar and wind systems, called net metering.

I'm not against solar, I want it to work. I'm just posting a fraction of what I've learned. The pros are obvious, I need to know the pros and cons. I hope everyone does their due diligence and goes into this eyes wide open. I'm still researching and learning.

 

[Art Deco]

I have been doing research for a test ride, so to speak. I've looked into smaller solar systems for an out building, small cottage or cabin. Probably doable. As a whole house or community solution, I'm not convinced we are there yet.

Even from a supportive media there are so many accounts of roofs being destroyed and houses damaged. Local news "on your side" segments are all over YouTube, blogs and forums. Then there is the issue of roof replacement. Most companies offer one removal and reinstall, but owners sometimes find the company out of business. Homeowners insurance rates are increasing at an alarming rate. This is due to roof damage/leaks and fires from batteries. I saw one local news report where a solar panel on the roof caught fire. I never knew that was possible. This was not some DIY project on a shack in the woods.

Several state legislatures are allowing utilities to charge for service even if you don't use any grid power. Called a minimum charge to maintain the grid. I was also surprised to find that not all utilities will buy excess power generated by private solar and wind systems, called net metering.

I'm not against solar, I want it to work. I'm just posting a fraction of what I've learned. The pros are obvious, I need to know the pros and cons. I hope everyone does their due diligence and goes into this eyes wide open. I'm still researching and learning.

My experience (10+ years) of grid tied solar on my roof is that solar is over hyped and oversold like everything else.

And unfortunately, commercial installations are subject to the same issues as a Do It Yourself install, otherwise you wouldn't read about all the fires that happened with the Tesla installations on Wallmarts and Amazon warehouses the last few years. I think they have all been removed from Amazon's buildings.

Solar works better than most things you can buy, and is usable today, but it has a long way to go to be the default choice for everyone. And there is a real shortage of qualified installers. Still safer than electric cars, or even eBikes I suspect.

And around here there is only one power company that buys back power ... PPL. And they are limiting the number of installations they have net metering with. In other states, power companies have already cut the amount they pay out for net metering by cutting their payouts dramatically from 9 am to 5 pm when the sun shines.

 

[tomjasz]

Bids are in 20K and no tax credit that amounts to anything. $5000 credit but haven't had a tax bill like that since retiring in 2007.

 

[tomjasz]

I'm not against solar, I want it to work.

I seem to remember there was a $300,000.00 liability policy required in some places!

 

[Art Deco]

Bids are in 20K and no tax credit that amounts to anything. $5000 credit but haven't had a tax bill like that since retiring in 2007.

Hi Tom. I think that tax credit can be applied across several years but I haven't looked it up; and I also think it is more generous now then it was a decade ago.
But remember that a solar home needs all the cheaper, easier stuff first to work well: like efficient appliances, extra insulation, efficient HVAC and water heater, etc. Budget for those things, and you may find you need a smaller solar system. And then the financing and tax breaks matter a lot.
The shopping is even worse than buying your first eBike if that's possible.

 

[J.R.]

I seem to remember

What are you replying to?

That kind of insurance wouldn't cover anything I referenced.

 

[tomjasz]

My apologies it was just an off hand remark. Ive found installers were not astute as i had hoped. Solar on my roof it seems has many hidden costs and potential disasters.

 

[Art Deco]

My apologies it was just an off hand remark. Ive found installers were not astute as i had hoped. Solar on my roof it seems has many hidden costs and potential disasters.

Indeed, "astute" isn't a word I would use for solar installers or even most solar companies ... "hucksters" may be a bit harsh, but is a bit closer...

 

[PDoz]

Does anyone have experience with water catchment from a solar carport? If so, any pearls of wisdom you would like to pass on? ( nb I'm asking from Australia so US regulations / brands are irrelevant)

I already have a functional solar to grid roof installation on my small shed (12 x 7.5 m shed) , but I'm thinking about extending the roofline of the bigger shed with a solar carport - probably 3 -4 m x 25 m of panels along the solar access edge of that shed so we can park horse floats / tractors / trailers under it , charge 1/2 ev's in the future and use those ev's to power the shed ( which currently runs on it's own small independent solar )

We use exclusively tank water , so any extra catchment means more water for the vege gardens. That water isn't valuable enough to justify a separate roof under the panels for catchment, but I could probably justify gutters along the edge of the panels. The trouble is our solar installers know all about catching sunshine but nothing about catching water. Shed installers don't seem to understand the logistics of supporting solar panels...and plumbers charge more than electricians.....

 

[tomjasz]

Years ago cisterns were common . But these enlightened days they’re illegal. And here in the upper midwest with significant rainfall.

 

[Taylor57]

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage | CNN

Climate resiliency was built into the fabric of Babcock Ranch with stronger storms in mind, and Hurricane Ian was a major test.

www.cnn.com

 

[Art Deco]

Does anyone have experience with water catchment from a solar carport? If so, any pearls of wisdom you would like to pass on? ( nb I'm asking from Australia so US regulations / brands are irrelevant)
-
I already have a functional solar to grid roof installation on my small shed (12 x 7.5 m shed) , but I'm thinking about extending the roofline of the bigger shed with a solar carport - probably 3 -4 m x 25 m of panels along the solar access edge of that shed so we can park horse floats / tractors / trailers under it , charge 1/2 ev's in the future and use those ev's to power the shed ( which currently runs on it's own small independent solar )

We use exclusively tank water , so any extra catchment means more water for the vege gardens. That water isn't valuable enough to justify a separate roof under the panels for catchment, but I could probably justify gutters along the edge of the panels. The trouble is our solar installers know all about catching sunshine but nothing about catching water. Shed installers don't seem to understand the logistics of supporting solar panels...and plumbers charge more than electricians.....

As long as your panels are not mounted on asphalt shingles or other poison, it should be fine. Even runoff from metal roofs is potable, and solar panels are glass. A gutter across the bottom of an array into a rain barrel or cistern would certainly be worthwhile. I keep a small pond (200 - 300 us gal. ?) full year around from runoff.

 

[Art Deco]

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage | CNN

Climate resiliency was built into the fabric of Babcock Ranch with stronger storms in mind, and Hurricane Ian was a major test.

www.cnn.com

A better article than I expected from CNN, tbh.

 

[J.R.]

As long as your panels are not mounted on asphalt shingles or other poison, it should be fine. Even runoff from metal roofs is potable, and solar panels are glass. A gutter across the bottom of an array into a rain barrel or cistern would certainly be worthwhile. I keep a small pond (200 - 300 us gal. ?) full year around from runoff.

Apparently even asphalt shingles are okay for gathering rain water for plants and vegetables.

https://www.bluebarrelsystems.com/blog/roofing-materials-for-rainwater-harvesting/#:~:text=Not%20a%20problem!,generally%20safe%20for%20rainwater%20collection.

I live on agricultural zoned land and we are required to have a dry well. I've thought about recovering some of that runoff, as it would be very easy to line part of the well. We don't have a shortage of water here, my water well is 425 feet deep with 380 feet of standing water, so collecting rain water would be for energy conservation. The dry well obviously feeds the water well through the ground, but a well pump requires a lot of energy to run.

 

[Art Deco]

Apparently even asphalt shingles are okay for gathering rain water for plants and vegetables.

https://www.bluebarrelsystems.com/blog/roofing-materials-for-rainwater-harvesting/#:~:text=Not%20a%20problem!,generally%20safe%20for%20rainwater%20collection.

I live on agricultural zoned land and we are required to have a dry well. I've thought about recovering some of that runoff, as it would be very easy to line part of the well. We don't have a shortage of water here, my water well is 425 feet deep with 380 feet of standing water, so collecting rain water would be for energy conservation. The dry well obviously feeds the water well through the ground, but a well pump requires a lot of energy to run.

When we tried some runoff from shingles, the fish died and the plants turned yellow, but it is a very small pond so any salt is a problem. And a regular well pump uses a crazy amount of power. There are solar powered 'slow pumps', that run all day on lower voltages (as long as the sun is shining), and still provide more than enough water, but crazy expensive.

 

[J.R.]

When we tried some runoff from shingles, the fish died and the plants turned yellow, but it is a very small pond so any salt is a problem. And a regular well pump uses a crazy amount of power. There are solar powered 'slow pumps', that run all day on lower voltages (as long as the sun is shining), and still provide more than enough water, but crazy expensive.

Good to know. Your canary in a coal mine test.

Yes, the well pump is expensive to run. When I was a kid my uncle's neighbor still had a hand pump in the kitchen. It was a poor farming community. A project I wanted to do and never got around to was to make a well cap with a hand pump. I thought it would help during our frequent power outages. As it is I can get emergency water out of the well with a portable pump.

 

[tomjasz]

crazy expensive.

I used solar pumps for my compost tea machine and had decent flow, but not a lot of pressure. What's your goal? I used RV pumps and found they were pretty cheap.(oops 15 years ago...)

 

[Art Deco]

I used solar pumps for my compost tea machine and had decent flow, but not a lot of pressure. What's your goal? I used RV pumps and found they were pretty cheap.(oops 15 years ago...)

12 volt RV pumps are still relatively cheap ( maybe $50? ) and are capable of pressurizing enough water for at least a decent shower, but IDK about a 50 or 100 foot lift.

 

[tomjasz]

50 or 100 foot lift.

OK, I'll shut up now....

 

[PDoz]

By cistern, do you guys just mean a water tank?

ALL our roof water is collected / stored in a 90,000 litre water tank ( corrugated galvanised / painted iron tank with a food quality liner ensuring that 20 years of watered down bird s*it can ferment in peace ) . That's our home water supply - we filter as much bird s*it as possible out of it before drinking.... Our roofs are all colorbond ( painted corrugated steel) .

My concern is not the water / bird s*it quality - I know enough microbiology to chuckle when people start discussing gut microflora diversity....

I'm more worried about any physical issues eg are there particular gutter designs to reduce the risk of water damage to the panels / magic smoke tubing ( wires) , any concerns with dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion between your typical solar panel and the average gutter material?