Searching for the perfect ebike

[MCWeber]

Hi EBR, this is my first post here!

I've been riding steel frame road and mountain bikes for 60 years, and now need a bit of assist with the big hills in the area and feel that the right ebike is the solution. My current go-to road bike is a 22 year old Rivendell custom that I've recently fitted with Ultegra 2 x 11 speed components (11-34 cassette and FSA 46-30 crankset); it's a dream to ride.

I've looked at Specialized, Trek and Giant ebikes (amongst others), focusing on their road and gravel bikes, most of which come with carbon fiber frames. And therein begins the set of the problems I encounter when trying to choose an ebike; I have zero experience with carbon fiber frames. Casting about the web I see that carbon frames can last anywhere from a few years to a lifetime, depending on care, maintenance, luck etc etc.

When I discuss fit with any bike shop these days, they don't offer much in the way of reassurance that I'll be comfortable for all day rides. About the only fit adjustment points available are some minor stem tweeks and moving the seat for and aft. Even the stem tweeks are limited due to wire and cable routing. None of the major manufacturers supply their bikes with an uncut steerer tube that can be adjusted for fit.

My Rivendell has the seat and drop bars at the same height, maybe the bars are a bit higher, so my riding position is somewhat upright. I'm not looking for a race bike, just one that's perfect for rambling along the roads all day. I like drop bars for use in stiff winds and steep hills.

I think all of the major brands have sophisticated motor controllers that will allow me to tailor the level of assist to my liking.

Then we come to pricing; the Trek-Spec-Giant bike come in at around $8-10,000. Not chump change considering that I'll need 2. I don't mind spending this much but my concerns give me pause. To summarize my concerns:

1. Fit is most important to me
2. Carbon fiber frame durability and delicacy
3. Motor controller sophistication.
4. Pricing

So, all that being said, how do I go about choosing an ebike that is comfortable, durable, and has a sophisticated drive? I would gladly pay top dollar for that bike. Are there any custom bike makers that could fill the bill? It seems that the big manufacturers don't make bikes for my type of riding.

Any suggesting are welcome.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[gromike]

Since you like your Rivendell so much maybe you should think about motorizing it.

 

[MCWeber]

Motorize my Riv? Blasphemy!! Well, I've thought about it but want to keep my Riv as is, will use it for most of my riding. The Goat bikes are not what I'm looking for.

Thanks

 

[Aushiker]

I understand where you are coming from on the fit aspect. That is one thing I find quite frustrating with going over to an eBike.

On #3, I have gone with a Bosch motor (paired with a Rohloff), which I understand is one of the best, if not the best motor option.

On #4, having spent AU$12,259/ US8,016, I am learning to live with the cost.

On carbon frames. My oldest bike is a Surly Long Haul Trucker, a steel frame, and I can understand the attachment. My second bike is an aluminium Salsa Mutluk fat bike, and aluminium works well for me in this configuration. My third bike is my second carbon-framed bike, a Giant Defy roadie. Previously I had a Look 555. If I were in the market for a roadie-style eBike, I would be comfortable going with carbon and pass on an aluminium frame. I find them too harsh (I did convert an aluminium Giant Defy to a Bafang motor way-back, and it was not an enjoyable ride due to the harshness.)

In summary, for me, steel or carbon frames tick the box. Good luck with finding a drop-bar bike that you find comfortable to ride.

Can you get Canyon bikes in Canada? Another possible option is a Ribble bike (may have to order from the UK) as they generally are quite customisable.

 

[MCWeber]

Aushiker, thanks for the response. I have a Surly Disc Trucker that I use for loaded touring, and love it. It's a heavy beast. Ribble doesn't ship ebikes to Canada according to their website, and Canyon Canada doesn't list ebikes on their website. Oh well. We'll find something. I've ridden one aluminum bike and it was a jarring experience.

 

[indianajo]

If I were in the market for a roadie-style eBike, I would be comfortable going with carbon and pass on an aluminium frame. I find them too harsh (I did convert an aluminium Giant Defy to a Bafang motor way-back, and it was not an enjoyable ride due to the harshness.)

I believe the harshness is 32 mm tires at 120 psi, not the rigid aluminum frame. Expecting the frame to flex is a good way to eventually break it. Air/hydraulic suspensions are designed for flexing, and are not generally available on drop handlebar bikes. Suspensions are not light weight. 55 mm tires at 40-65 PSI can be.
The bosch system is great for people that want to give up pedaling the bike and let the motor do it. Only the most expensive most powerful version does not drag the motor with your feet with the power turned off. I ride unpowered 80% of the distance, with a no-drag geared hub motor on the front. Electricity is for headwinds >12 mph, which are common these days even in summer. Even with 840 wh I overrun the battery frequently on the uphill leg and pedal the last few miles under my own power. Pedaling home in a rainstorm after the electricity quits would be even more unpleasant while dragging the motor with my feet. I understand recreational riders schedule their rides when it is not raining or blowing. I have given up fossil fuel and ride the bike whenever I need to go somewhere, whatever the weather.

 

[Bicyclista]

@MCWeber, I'm a big admirer of Rivendell bikes and their overall philosophy. I believe if you talk to the folks at Rivendell they will warn you away from carbon-fiber frames and forks. Their argument goes something like this: One microscopic crack and the frame or fork becomes dangerous, and you won't even know it. As for electric bikes, they are not against them, it's just not their thing.

Since you like steel bikes (I do too!), and you already own a Surly, why not a Surly electric? They make the Skid Loader, a compact electric steel cargo bike. I know you are not necessarily looking for a cargo bike, but I think a cargo bike will expand your cycling horizons, as my Yuba Spicy Curry AT cargo bike did for me. You will be able to ride it on pavement, gravel, even dirt trails, and take stuff along such as (in my case), big and heavy photo equipment. The Surly Skid Loader comes in three sizes, and hopefully one of them can be adjusted to your proper fit. It has a sophisticated Bosch electrical system, including the controller, and the option of a second battery for greater range. The Bosch dual battery system of my Yuba manages alternating both charging and discharging the batteries automatically, and it's probably the same system that is on the Surly. Pricing is nearly half of the carbon fiber Trek-Specialized-Giant bikes you have been looking at, so yeah, you can buy two.

 

[MCWeber]

Well, Rome, I guess I wasn't asking for YOUR advice, yeah? Why even bother commenting if you have nothing to add? On the other hand, there is a vast amount of experience available on EBR and those who are willing to share their experience, I am sure, will be happy to do so.

 

[MCWeber]

@MCWeber, I'm a big admirer of Rivendell bikes and their overall philosophy. I believe if you talk to the folks at Rivendell they will warn you away from carbon-fiber frames and forks. Their argument goes something like this: One microscopic crack and the frame or fork becomes dangerous, and you won't even know it. As for electric bikes, they are not against them, it's just not their thing.

Since you like steel bikes (I do too!), and you already own a Surly, why not a Surly electric? They make the Skid Loader, a compact electric steel cargo bike. I know you are not necessarily looking for a cargo bike, but I think a cargo bike will expand your cycling horizons, as my Yuba Spicy Curry AT cargo bike did for me. You will be able to ride it on pavement, gravel, even dirt trails, and take stuff along such as (in my case), big and heavy photo equipment. The Surly Skid Loader comes in three sizes, and hopefully one of them can be adjusted to your proper fit. It has a sophisticated Bosch electrical system, including the controller, and the option of a second battery for greater range. The Bosch dual battery system of my Yuba manages alternating both charging and discharging the batteries automatically, and it's probably the same system that is on the Surly. Pricing is nearly half of the carbon fiber Trek-Specialized-Giant bikes you have been looking at, so yeah, you can buy two.

That Surly looks really promising - I'll check it out.

 

[misterk9]

Hi EBR, this is my first post here!

I've been riding steel frame road and mountain bikes for 60 years, and now need a bit of assist with the big hills in the area and feel that the right ebike is the solution. My current go-to road bike is a 22 year old Rivendell custom that I've recently fitted with Ultegra 2 x 11 speed components (11-34 cassette and FSA 46-30 crankset); it's a dream to ride.

I've looked at Specialized, Trek and Giant ebikes (amongst others), focusing on their road and gravel bikes, most of which come with carbon fiber frames. And therein begins the set of the problems I encounter when trying to choose an ebike; I have zero experience with carbon fiber frames. Casting about the web I see that carbon frames can last anywhere from a few years to a lifetime, depending on care, maintenance, luck etc etc.

When I discuss fit with any bike shop these days, they don't offer much in the way of reassurance that I'll be comfortable for all day rides. About the only fit adjustment points available are some minor stem tweeks and moving the seat for and aft. Even the stem tweeks are limited due to wire and cable routing. None of the major manufacturers supply their bikes with an uncut steerer tube that can be adjusted for fit.

My Rivendell has the seat and drop bars at the same height, maybe the bars are a bit higher, so my riding position is somewhat upright. I'm not looking for a race bike, just one that's perfect for rambling along the roads all day. I like drop bars for use in stiff winds and steep hills.

I think all of the major brands have sophisticated motor controllers that will allow me to tailor the level of assist to my liking.

Then we come to pricing; the Trek-Spec-Giant bike come in at around $8-10,000. Not chump change considering that I'll need 2. I don't mind spending this much but my concerns give me pause. To summarize my concerns:

1. Fit is most important to me
2. Carbon fiber frame durability and delicacy
3. Motor controller sophistication.
4. Pricing

So, all that being said, how do I go about choosing an ebike that is comfortable, durable, and has a sophisticated drive? I would gladly pay top dollar for that bike. Are there any custom bike makers that could fill the bill? It seems that the big manufacturers don't make bikes for my type of riding.

Any suggesting are welcome.

Thanks,
Mike

The/my carbon Trek Domane has an upright-ish position (+7 degree stem), comfortable fit and a smooth ride, took some miles to dial it in. The Tq drive works well, I can customize the three motor settings, and the bike computer app runs on iphone . I believe it is quite durable structurally, have a couple of paint nicks on chain stay but otherwise mat finish hanging tough. Any $8k+ gonna get delicate treatment, right? E-experience: former +HP7 (6200mi Bosch Shimano 1x11) and current +SLR7 (2800 mi Tq Shimano 2x12). I'm 5-8, 54cm frame. Got my first bike in '61, e-bike keeping me on the road.

 

[MCWeber]

The/my carbon Trek Domane has an upright-ish position (+7 degree stem), comfortable fit and a smooth ride, took some miles to dial it in. The Tq drive works well, I can customize the three motor settings, and the bike computer app runs on iphone . I believe it is quite durable structurally, have a couple of paint nicks on chain stay but otherwise mat finish hanging tough. Any $8k+ gonna get delicate treatment, right? E-experience: former +HP7 (6200mi Bosch Shimano 1x11) and current +SLR7 (2800 mi Tq Shimano 2x12). I'm 5-8, 54cm frame. Got my first bike in '61, e-bike keeping me on the road.

Yeah, the Trek Domane SLR or Specialized Creo may be the one. Which stem did you put on to get +7 degree?

 

[MCWeber]

Are there any custom ebike builders that you know of?

 

[Aushiker]

@MCWeber I believe if you talk to the folks at Rivendell they will warn you away from carbon-fiber frames and forks. Their argument goes something like this: One microscopic crack and the frame or fork becomes dangerous, and you won't even know it. As for electric bikes, they are not against them, it's just not their thing.

Personally, I wouldn't be seeking advice on carbon bikes from Rivendell, as it is hardly their area of expertise. Also, given the popularity of carbon frames, particularly in the MTB and roadie markets, I suspect the risks associated with the material are insignificant.

Each to their own, of course, but I wouldn't buy a carbon fibre frame because of Rivendell's opinion. Now if the likes of Giant and the other big manufacturers in Taiwan* started pulling out of making carbon fibre frames, then my opinion would likely change.

* Cannot find any data on the biggest frame manufacturers in Taiwan besides Giant and, IIRC Merida.

 

[Aushiker]

I believe the harshness is 32 mm tires at 120 psi, not the rigid aluminum frame. Expecting the frame to flex is a good way to eventually break it. Air/hydraulic suspensions are designed for flexing, and are not generally available on drop handlebar bikes. Suspensions are not light weight. 55 mm tires at 40-65 PSI can be.

I do not know of any road bikes (roadies) running 32 mm tyres. All of mine have run 23/25mm with the exception of my current Defy which has 28mm with the tyre pressures around 110 PSI (within the tyre manufacturer's range and what is as I understand common practice). My comment on harshness is in comparison to my steel and carbon-framed bikes. It was not a comment on flex.

The bosch system is great for people that want to give up pedaling the bike and let the motor do it.

Is it? I thought Bosch motors were pedelecs? That seems to be what Bosch is saying. Here in Australia, as far as I an tell they are sold as pedelecs motors at least for the road-style bikes. Maybe there is a non-pedelec version for mountain biking?

 

[gromike]

I don't know about you, but I would be worried about leaving my $10k+ bike outside the pub. Though, you could do a Grin all-axle rear hub motor on your current bike, and have a torque sensing, regen braking, smooth and quite rolling super ebike for about two grand. And it's easily reversible.

 

[MCWeber]

Grin...holy smokes that may be the ticket! I have two old steel frame bikes, a Miyata and a Rocky Mountain, both in really good condition. Perhaps a Grin all axle motor will fit one of them.

 

[gromike]

Or both. You won't be disappointed in the performance of a Grin conversion. Some might complain about the price, but I look on an All-Axle motor as an investment in its own right.

 

[indianajo]

I do not know of any road bikes (roadies) running 32 mm tyres. All of mine have run 23/25mm with the exception of my current Defy which has 28mm with the tyre pressures around 110 PSI (within the tyre manufacturer's range and what is as I understand common practice). My comment on harshness is in comparison to my steel and carbon-framed bikes. It was not a comment on flex.
Is it? I thought Bosch motors were pedelecs? That seems to be what Bosch is saying. Here in Australia, as far as I an tell they are sold as pedelecs motors at least for the road-style bikes. Maybe there is a non-pedelec version for mountain biking?

I do not know the precise measurement on those high pressure skinny tires since I never wanted to ride with my head bent back 90 degrees from my spine. I do suspect tiny high pressure tires ride harder than medium sized medium pressure tires. I do not expect my frame to take out the shock of an uneven road. Apparently posters on this thread do. I aired up my brother's tiny tires Christmas and found the inflation limit of 120 psi on the sidewall. He has never figured out how to air up his tires. I found presta valves have a locknut on the valve stem that must be backed off to add air. He rides his tiny tire bike < once per year. I ride my 2 1/8" tires at ~50 psi 200 days a year.
Bosch sells the same 4 models for different styles of bicycles. I have no idea what you mean by pedelec. Try one of the bottom three models on a demonstration ride with the battery removed. Some posters tell me they are easy to pedal that way. I have my doubts. My geared hub motor is so drag free I leave it installed in the winter then the battery is stored under a heating pad in the garage. The drag when pushed backwards (when the motor spins) is quite higher than the drag forwards when the clutch prevents motor spin. As far as me trying out a bosch drive bike, the nearest dealer is 165 miles away in Chicagoland. What we have here is Pedego and Giant.

 

[Aushiker]

Bosch sells the same 4 models for different styles of bicycles. Try one of the bottom three models on a demonstration ride with the battery turned off. Some posters tell me they are easy to pedal that way. I have my doubts. My geared hub motor is so drag free I leave installed in the winter then the battery is stored under a heating pad in the garage. The drag when pushed backwards (when the motor spins) is quite higher than the drag forwards when the clutch prevents motor spin.

My reply was in response to your statement ...

The bosch system is great for people that want to give up pedaling the bike and let the motor do it.

So how your comment above is relevant is beyond me.

Anyway, I cannot see any value in taking this further so will leave you to it. Have a nice day.

 

[indianajo]

So how your comment above is relevant is beyond me.

I will concede bosch makes you move your feet to make the bike go. The calories I burn by moving my bike unpowered will be 150% to 4 times what you burn with electric assist. If you remove the battery from a bosch, you will burn more calories than I do since you spin the motor with your feet and I do not. When the wind is >12 mph in my face, the power required to go 8 mph is 3 times what I can generate. That is mainly when I use electricity.