Riding the new ST2 s

[grench]

@JayVee sounds like you need a trip to see @bluecat so we can iron this out. I would love to see the results.

 

[bluecat]

Hmmm... Interesting... I think what he meant about the BionX being in the "fastest configuration" is that it had been tweaked with console codes. For example, code 3776 governs the speed at which the drive engages. Normally it's 2km/h but you can set it lower.

The firmware of the early Stromer was legacy from BionX. With 3773, a higher max. speed could be set. But not more force. If you want more strength, the controlled must be allowd to open for more Ampere. In case of Stromer, there is no display code to do this.

But there was this interface. Here , you could change at least everything. I guess, a similar tool exists for the BionX drives...

 

[bluecat]

A 60" night ride with high beam on. The camera was held by hand, autofocus and other automatics were set off. So please be lenient

The visual impression was different. The area in front of the Stromer was bright, the partial shading was not visible by eye.

Click on the the word vimeo above and then on the 4 arrows to see the video in full screen mode.

 

[ST2]

Will need to consider selling one of my wives to afford one.........

First of all, you must live in Utah to have more than one, but how much are they selling for these days?

 

[bluecat]

I confess, it wasn't easy, but a couple of days ago, Im had to give back the STs. After more than 1'500km, das testing period has come to an end. The ST2 was used as a commuter bike and also for leisure. In the heat of the summer, in the rainy autumn or in the cold winter: The ST2s was always reliable. OK, with one exception: At -10ºC, the battery declined any cooperation due to a software error in th BMS. This error was reproducible, but a workaround is implemented now - and only a few rides might have been affected. But the overall summary is pure positive:

With a proper configuration, the ST2 is the ultimate sportbike!

The M99pro and the Di2 making a clear distance to the standard ST2. The larger battery is also an argument for the higher price. But 10k$ might also be the price for a nice used car in the US, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 803]

There is no doubt the ST2 and ST2S are great bikes. It's just that they are terrible values. The US market is struggling to sell eBikes. In a recent dealer survey, of almost 600 dealers, conducted by Bicycle Retailer, eBikes comprise less than 10% of sales with 63% of dealers indicating that eBikes sales were either worse or much worse than standard bicycle sales. The IBD market continues to shrink with less than 4K dealers and the large brands such as Trek and Specialized plus ASI are buying more and more retail locations. These super dealers will squeeze out independent brands such as Stromer and make life even harder for them. We recently did a survey of our database with over 1K users and found that the majority of interested consumers consider eBikes too expensive with over 50% of them considering eBikes (cycling in general) as unsafe. We are fighting infrastructure, lifestyle, and cost in the North American market. I expect to see many vendors pull back or pull out of the US market as there are some reports that the retailer channel has an 8-10 month supply of eBikes.

I'd love to be wrong about all of this but there is growing data for my concerns.

 

[chgofirefighter]

There is no doubt the ST2 and ST2S are great bikes. It's just that they are terrible values. The US market is struggling to sell eBikes. In a recent dealer survey, of almost 600 dealers, conducted by Bicycle Retailer, eBikes comprise less than 10% of sales with 63% of dealers indicating that eBikes sales were either worse or much worse than standard bicycle sales. The IBD market continues to shrink with less than 4K dealers and the large brands such as Trek and Specialized plus ASC are buying more and more retail locations. These super dealers will squeeze out independent brands such as Stromer and make life even harder for them. We recently did a survey of our database with over 1K users and found that the majority of interested consumers consider eBikes too expensive with over 50% of them considering eBikes (cycling in general) as unsafe. We are fighting infrastructure, lifestyle, and cost in the North American market. I expect to see many vendors pull back or pull out of the US market as there are some reports that the retailer channel has an 8-10 month supply of eBikes.

I'd love to be wrong about all of this but there is growing data for my concerns.

Correct, people in America don't have 7k to invest on a bike. Very few do have that type of money to spend on an ebike, but that's very small percentage of people. Yes, the ST2 is a great bike, I own one myself but I was fortunate enough to get the ST2 at a huge discount becuase I would of never pay 7k plus taxes on an bike for that I would of purchased a scooter for far less money. I can see the marked in the USA to shrink in sales especially in the ebike business however, all these manufacturers continue to produce, built ebike so that says a lot about the futuer of ebikes. It will soon take off like a rocket as sooon as they make them very affordable for the average consumer to afford...

 

[Deleted member 803]

eBikes account for almost 10% of US bicycle sales?! That's fantastic. Compared to five years ago e-bike sales show almost 2000% growth. That is a torrid growth rate. According to NBDA, ebike sales accounted for only 0.5% of sales in 2012. eCycleElectric states that the U.S. market doubled between 2012 and 2013. Amazing growth, and like a snowball rolling down hill, it is only gaining speed and weight. Thanks @86 and still kicking for the great news.

I'm afraid your conclusion is not correct. There was no specificity to the "less than 10%" so we have no idea of the real percentage other than it is not a major contributor to the profit of the retailer. Also 37% of dealers in the survey do not sell eBikes and you can probably assume this is reasonably correct nationwide. This means that eBikes as a percent of overall bike sales is much much smaller than your assumption.

We find the channel stuffed with 8 months worth of inventory. By any profit measurement, the eBike category remains weak. I wish it were otherwise.......

 

[bluecat]

Thanks everybody for these insights.

Luckily for myStromer AG, the Swiss market is completely different. But the Swiss market is small, very small. That's why every company goes to Germany first. But Germany is part of the EU and the bureaucracy in the EU is horrible. The US market seems to be different. Even more price sensitive than the Germany. More mail order, more demand for discount.

The ST1x fills the gap between ST1 and ST2, but the "Model 3" is still missing. Will it ever come? I don't know. From my point of view, myStromer AG will continue as a niche player. Nevertheless, I could imagine they build a eBike sold only in the US.

Regarding the ST2s:
This is the Porsche of the eBikes. Thanks the Di2, the gear shifting during the acceleration is unbeatable. Thanks the 983Wh battery, you run longer in peak power. Thanks the M99pro, you have light as a motorbike - and you can flash the headlight. The only disappointing thing: I can't afford it.

 

[Dunbar]

@bluecat, was the ST2S you have been riding on loan from Stromer?

 

[bluecat]

@bluecat, was the ST2S you have been riding on loan from Stromer?

Yes,

Together with my colleagues, I'm editor on this website: www.stromerforum.ch
myStromer AG handed over the ST2s with the purpose, to ride it under all conditions - and report every issue. So we checked the suitability for daily use. As I'm the one who commutes even at wintertime with the ST2s, I did this part (and for comparison also several km in the summer).

 

[Deleted member 803]

Faulty data. No way in hell that vendors imported 1 million ebikes into the country. I do not have access to the underlying data gathering but this does not mimic reality.

 

[Bob G]

It was an 'estimate' from a 2010 article.

http://electriccarsreport.com/2010/02/electric-two-wheelers-poised-for-strong-growth-worldwide/

 

[Bob G]

Faulty data, indeed. 150,ooo in ebike sales for North America in 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/255658/worldwide-sales-of-electric-bicycles-by-region/

 

[bluecat]

Here some robust data from Switzerland:

Year 2016:

324'581 bicycles sold = 100%

75'665 of them were electric bicycles = 23.4%

3'990 of all were 26" & 45km/h = 1.2% of all or 5.3% of the e-bikes. In this field, myStromer AG is a major player

5'247 of all were 26" & 25km/h In this field, myStromer AG is also active in Switzerland.

The e-MTB sector is the strongest growing. Surprisingly, the commuter-sector (45 km/h road) has no progress. Very strange: 45 km/h MTB also growing - but the use them in the forest or mountains is forbidden!

Note:
25km/h = No licence plate, no driving licence, no insurance
45km/h = licence plate, driving licence and insurance mandatory

Datasoure:
http://www.velosuisse.ch/files/Velo Statistik Schweizer Markt 2016.pdf

 

[Bob G]

That is stunning data with ebikes at almost a quarter of all sales. I can't even imagine what the US market would look like with those numbers. I don't know what the population of Switzerland is but it's already at 50% of all North American ebike sales. They must have great bike lanes and be a really fun place to ride.

 

[JayVee]

Switzerland has roughly 8 million residents and has always has had a bicycle tradition. Compared to the size of the country, we have a lot of companies that produce e-bikes locally, despite the fact that it doesn't always make sense economically. Off the top of my head, the following Swiss companies currently produce e-bikes: Stromer, TDS, Flyer, Cresta, Stockli, Villiger, Watts, Canyon, Scott, Ibex, Voltitude... But there are several others I can't think of right now. Now that's an awful lot of e-bike companies for a country that's only slightly bigger than Maryland. Between Geneva and Lausanne, which are separated by 50Kms, I have counted more than 25 shops that carry e-bikes. It's estimated that roughly 500,000 e-bikes are in circulation.

 

[bluecat]

... Switzerland is ... already at 50% of all North American ebike sales. They must have great bike lanes and be a really fun place to ride.

Unfortunately no, the network of bike lanes is very fragmented.

But Switzerland is a country of short distances! Commuting by bicycle is often very well possible. An e-bike makes this even easier. The same for leisure activities. As you see from the numbers, there a lot of money around for buying e-MTB just for leisure on a few sunny summer weekends. Although, the educanatal level is well, several people believe in saving the planet whilst riding an e-bike. These three pillars making the e-bike market share growing.

The remaining question is: Why is the market share of the very big peace of cake of myStromer AG not bigger?