Riding Clothes - In Praise of Clown Suits

Hopefully not on that Bike.
I think this guy deserves credit for demonstrating how to achieve high clown cadence. He’s even gone a step further and decked himself out in full lycra and a lid for full effect. Good call on the flat pedals though as a fall from that height clipped in might require an iddy-biddy bandage.

 
After 30+ years of riding a bike I finally broke down and bought some padded shorts. Riding a emtb on rocky/rooty trails is a little like riding a bucking bronco at times which can lead to some less than desirable seat positions.
This is actually something that kind of makes me laugh. I've seen it a lot where we have people who will rail against wide seats, cushioning on seats, but then wear a butt pad. That's as comically silly as MTG not liking solar because she likes to turn the lights on at night.

The clown clothes are funny, but I prefer something a bit more practical. I think that's why I don't like the thin spandex / lycra stuff is that -- while it's practical for aerodynamic for pro racers -- is silly for riding "real" terrain, downhill, or harsh conditions. It's like Christmas sake people, armor up -- at least when it's cool enough to do so.

Sadly my standard of "cool enough' doesn't start until the temps drop below 60. Thankfully the past few nights for my 3AM rides it's done exactly that. So I've got a nice high visibility blue flannel with elbow and back plates, a cut with a backplate, some leggings with kneepads, etc. Kind of needed to though when I started snow riding. First few weeks until you get the hang of it you go down more often than a high priced hooker at Mar-a-lago.

And it's all baggy enough most people don't even know I've got all the impact plates on me.
 
This is actually something that kind of makes me laugh. I've seen it a lot where we have people who will rail against wide seats, cushioning on seats, but then wear a butt pad. That's as comically silly as MTG not liking solar because she likes to turn the lights on at night.

The clown clothes are funny, but I prefer something a bit more practical. I think that's why I don't like the thin spandex / lycra stuff ….

The reason for putting the padding in your shorts instead of seat is very simple: the seat does not move with your backside, but your shorts do. putting soft squishy parts of your seat under your sit bones (the one part of your ass designed to support your weight) causes weight to be borne by the soft tissues elsewhere. A hard seat, the correct width for your sit bones, with padding under your sit bones wherever they may be moving as you pedal, is not comically silly, it’s anatomically and biomechanically correct, for many types of cycling.

This combined with a position that puts weight over your feet rather than your butt (assuming enough flexibility / a small enough stomach to lean forward a bit) is not something made up by Big Bike to torture people, it’s a time tested and scientifically proven way for people of moderate to high fitness to comfortably cycle extremely long distances at decent speeds with lightweight, aerodynamic equipment. Not the only way to ride, of course, but the only reason one would laugh at it is because they don’t understand it…
 
Mark, a remark...
(unintended pun!)

Padded shorts are ideal for people riding narrow & hard road-bike saddles in far forward position. As you do on your road/gravel bikes. I have found many things invented for comfort for more relaxed bikes, such as wide and soft saddles happen to make the padded shorts counterproductive. It is because riding a "comfort bike" places a bigger part of body weight on the saddle. In such a situation, the padding creates a stress on the soft body tissues.

I have recently compared my rides with padded shorts to ones with regular shorts on to discover with a lot of surprise the rides in regular shorts felt easier on the bum, with better ventilation. Only pity I own far more of padded shorts than the regular ones!

On the other hand, I am a great believer in cycling jerseys! Riding in cotton on warm weather would be unbearable for me now. Besides, I like the back pockets in the cycling jersey very much.
 
The reason for putting the padding in your shorts instead of seat is very simple: the seat does not move with your backside, but your shorts do. putting soft squishy parts of your seat under your sit bones (the one part of your ass designed to support your weight) causes weight to be borne by the soft tissues elsewhere. A hard seat, the correct width for your sit bones, with padding under your sit bones wherever they may be moving as you pedal, is not comically silly, it’s anatomically and biomechanically correct, for many types of cycling.
Which to me sounds like marketing scam BS to sell shorts and more expensive yet more cheaply made seats. It's nonsensical. If the whole seat is padded, your "sit bones" -- Ischial Tuberosities -- will always be on padding. Whether that padding in on your ass or on the seat should make zero difference. Seriously, think about what you just said! Do you not see the absurd logic fallacy?

NOT that the ridiculous leaning forward straight or drop bar position even involves that part of the pelvis! You end up rotated forward so far that the tuberosities don't even make flipping contact! The entire "sit bones" rubbish seems to be devoid of actual knowledge of anatomy or seating.

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Kind of like those idiotic "ergonomic office seats" that were hot and trendy in the '90's. The ones that ended up causing chronic knee pain and eventually injuries by moving more weight onto the knees. Or the ergonomic "split" keyboards that cause joint pain in the elbows after prolonged use?

As someone who's worked in accessibility and usability for a decade and some change, I know ergonomic bullshit when I hear it.

In fact the seating position that seems to work best with the thin seats puts all the weight on the perineal, not the so-called "sit bones". Aka "the taint" for those not versed in anatomy, aka the "Ischiopubic ramus" for the nit-picky. To that end I would suspect the real reason the thin seats work better than wide for forward-leaning riders is it means your additor magnus, semitendinosus, and biceps femoris aren't bouncing on and off the seat directing force into the gluteus maximum. In other words your legs aren't giving your arse a pounding. In the forward leaning position your butt gets rotated back and your legs smack the wider seat. Since the weight in that position is moved to the perineal, all the thin seats are doing to help you not chafe.

Much less the pressure tests used almost never actually line up with the actual bones in question! NOR are said bones actually where most of the pressure is put, it's just where the most pressure may end up located. The plot of six fallacy! A bit like explaining sound or nuclear blast radii. Just because those are the points of highest pressure, does not make them where the majority of pressure is, or a great place to focus even more pressure on.

Unless of course you WANT ischial bursitis. This is probably why upright riders with cruiser bars end up with massive pain in their sacrum and coccyx if they try to use the butt floss seats... and why peddling the "sits bones" lie seems to be more marketing scam than fact.

But of course like other gibberish scams people blindly believe -- Amway, Mary Kay, HTML/CSS frameworks, Religion -- daring to even say that will drag the know-nothing fanboys out of the woodwork blindly parroting propaganda. Here's a tip, alleged "medical studies" done by the companies selling the seats are likely about as legit as a cancer study funded by cigarette manufacturers. Or at least the ones they decide not to bury.
it’s a time tested and scientifically proven way for people of moderate to high fitness to comfortably cycle extremely long distances at decent speeds with lightweight, aerodynamic equipment. Not the only way to ride, of course, but the only reason one would laugh at it is because they don’t understand it…
If by "time tested" you mean 8 to ten years, scientifically proven being card stacked studies by people with a deep financial interest... and of course your key words "people of moderate to high fitness" aka people who like -- and or can bend themselves -- into the back-breaking crotch-rocket position.

Which means dick-all to casual riders looking for actual comfort without being a master of contortionism.

I'm actually going to be writing an article on Medium about this because whilst the thin seat rubbish can work for the "over the bars" riders, the claim that the sit bones have ANYTHING to do with this is utter and total nonsense, ignorant of the most basic bits of how anatomy works.

It seems to me like little more than a marketing scam the foolish and gullible have yummed up hook, line, sinker, and a bit o' the rod! It sounds good to the ill educated, little different from the type of hoodoo voodoo the likes of Oz, Gwenyth Paltrow or that dirtbag calling himself an avacado peddle like tumeric cleanses, bleach enema's, alkali water, or shoving jade eggs up the holiest of holies. Enjoy your toxoplasmosis ladies!
 
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Oh, and the other reason "sit bones" is a bunch of bogus nonsense? The most comfortable seat in most houses that some people spend hours reading on. The orange cheeto-fingered half-tweet owns one in gold.

That has no chance in hell of making contact with the so-called "Sit bones". Well, unless you're sitting so far back you leave skid-marks on the seat.
 
Which to me sounds like marketing scam BS to sell shorts and more expensive yet more cheaply made seats. It's nonsensical. If the whole seat is padded, your "sit bones" -- Ischial Tuberosities -- will always be on padding. Whether that padding in on your ass or on the seat should make zero difference. Seriously, think about what you just said! Do you not see the absurd logic fallacy?
You have no clue. A roadie (or a gravel cyclist) sits on an extremely narrow saddle with buttocks outside, so the rider's bottom is only supported on the crotch. Moreover, a road/gravel cyclist rides with their bum high and head low, making the major part of their body weight shift forward and off the saddle. In such a situation, padded shorts are a must to protect the rider's soft tissues. Add to it sweat-absorption function of the padding. Gravel cyclists are known of riding marathons (200 - 500+ km a race) and they can survive it.

MTBers wear loose long shorts that also may be padded. The MTB saddle is narrow, again. An MTBer rides for relatively short distances, mostly out-of-saddle.

The more relaxed riding position becomes and the more "comfortable" seat is used, the importance of padded shorts becomes negligible and even counter-productive. Many comfort saddles come with improved ventilation. In such a case, padded shorts are not necessary.
 
You have no clue.
Funny since it sounds like you're agreeing with me. Did I use words that were too big in the form of the actual anatomical terms?
A roadie (or a gravel cyclist) sits on an extremely narrow saddle with buttocks outside, so the rider's bottom is only supported on the crotch.
Aka the perineal. Weight isn't on the "sits". Exactly what I'm trying to say.
Moreover, a road/gravel cyclist rides with their bum high and head low,
Aka the crotch rocket riding position my post keeps talking about as being the only way these narrow seats would have any merit. Thus why the "sit bones" measuring stuff is nonsense.
In such a situation, padded shorts are a must to protect the rider's soft tissues. Add to it sweat-absorption function of the padding.
In other words, "to help prevent chafing". Somebody wrote that in one of their posts.... oh wait it was me in the post you responded to.
The more relaxed riding position becomes and the more "comfortable" seat is used, the importance of padded shorts becomes negligible and even counter-productive. Many comfort saddles come with improved ventilation. In such a case, padded shorts are not necessary.
Exactly what I was saying, so not sure why you quoted me for your reply.

This is why so many users here seem to think you're a putz.
 
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View attachment 132527Oh, and the other reason "sit bones" is a bunch of bogus nonsense? The most comfortable seat in most houses that some people spend hours reading on. The orange cheeto-fingered half-tweet owns one in gold.

That has no chance in hell of making contact with the so-called "Sit bones". Well, unless you're sitting so far back you leave skid-marks on the seat.
You got me. Stefan is an engineer and I am a retired mechanical engineer. The closest that I ever came to the study of anatomy was High School Biology. I have no doubt that your knowledge of anatomy is far superior to mine.

Regarding your “most comfortable seat”, I agree that for it’s intended use, it is superior to a bicycle saddle, (my saddle doesn’t even have a relief down the center, so it would be a very poor choice as a toilet seat), but I will not be putting your most comfortable seat on my bike any time soon.

Marketing arguments and anatomy aside, narrow saddles and padded shorts have served me well through many miles, and I will continue to use what works for me. A little bit of anatomy that you may be ignoring is that for any cyclist, the Gluteus Maximus, (I hope that is correct), is a large and useful muscle group, and using it to bear weight would be counterproductive and agonizing on a long, athletic ride. A forward lean is also critical to being able to apply power to the pedals, especially when riding out of saddle.

I still have some cycling shorts that have actual Chamois, (not synthetic padding). Just as a hawk doesn’t need to study aerodynamics to fly, I don’t need to be an expert in anatomy to know what has worked for me and many millions of cyclists for so long.

A narrow saddle that allows me to sit on my sit bones keeps me from applying pressure to a large muscle group that I actually use while cycling. My anatomy and my firm saddle is such that I don’t sit on my “crotch”, even without a relief channel. The pad in my more modern shorts wicks away moisture, so I am more comfortable and less prone to saddle sores, (while training for a century years ago, I developed a saddle sore. I can tell you that riding a 116 miles on a fresh saddle sore is not something that I would recommend). The pad and spandex not only wicks away moisture and adds support, it also greatly reduces friction.

I have said this before, so I apologize to those rolling their eyes: When I ride my road bike, I wear a snug fitting synthetic jersey. It has three pockets in the back which is very convenient, I can open the front to get a nice breeze when desired and it functions very well regarding regulation of my core temperature, (it’s comfortable). I also choose bright jerseys because I want to be visible. I wear bibs because they stay where they belong and are comfortable and function as I described earlier. When I ride my e-bike, I wear the same, but I wear a pair of mountain bike shorts over the bibs for convenience and so that I don’t look like a poser.

Cyclists have been riding on narrow saddles for 150 years. It’s not a fad or marketing gimmick. It works. It might not matter much if you are riding to the local store or if you are using a throttle. Cycling clothing has evolved as materials and understanding has improved. E-bike cyclists are fortunate that they didn’t have to suffer through all of this evolution. You can thank conventional cyclists, (but you probably won’t), and the cycling industry for doing the hard work so that you can enjoy the evolved and refined products that make e-bikes so nice, (you might also consider being a little grateful for the infrastructure that they fought so hard for rather than complaining about having to share it with those “clown suit wearing elitists”). Like it or not, e-cycling owes It’s existence to the bicycle. The technology and the infrastructure did not begin with the e-bike.

In closing, I think that Stefan said it best, sabers or pistols.
 
Which to me sounds like marketing scam BS to sell shorts and more expensive yet more cheaply made seats. It's nonsensical. If the whole seat is padded, your "sit bones" -- Ischial Tuberosities -- will always be on padding. Whether that padding in on your ass or on the seat should make zero difference. Seriously, think about what you just said! Do you not see the absurd logic fallacy?

not surprisingly, you completely missed the point, which was about avoiding bearing on the OTHER parts of the butt. sit on a large, evenly soft surface. your sit bones may make contact first as the soft tissues around them compress (since they’re thinner there) but what happens next is they the rest of your backside becomes a load bearing surface. on the other hand, if there is padding on your sit bones and not elsewhere, and the seat is relatively stiff and limited in size, that padding compresses - but not to zero - which means the soft tissues everywhere else on your bottom don’t even really make contact with the saddle. again, the point is not to excessively pad the sit bones, it’s to create a system where no matter what your body position, the sit bones bear the primary weight that’s on your bottom, and no other part of your bottom does.

the point isn’t the amount of padding on the sit bones, it’s that the design doesn’t cause the rest of your butt to bear weight. and because the padding is on the sit bones, not the seat, as you move around it continues to function in that way.

you have so much of your ego tied up in believing that you’re smarter than anyone trying to “sell you” something that you’ve forced yourself to believe shitty things - or things not suited to purpose - are always better.

as for 8-10 years, again, you’re blinded by your own bias. the basic design with padded shorts (or a separate layer / chamois) has been used for almost 80 years, by professional cyclists who (gasp) didn’t buy them because of TV ads, gwyneth paltrow, or the internet. they did it because it enabled them to ride faster and farther.

is this the only riding position and equipment which makes sense? of course not. but it does what it it designed to do incredibly well. i’ve ridden 10,000 miles in less than two years on bikes and saddles likes this, and when worn and fitted properly, it’s exceptionally comfortable and efficient for delivering power.
 
Good to read personal experiences for different saddles. There's a 'seat' for every butt. I came to this thread late and haven't read every page. I got hung up on the "thin" description of saddle at first, then I realized the reference meant narrow. I ride a thin saddle that is narrow-ish compared to most saddles today.

When I commuted 5 days a week (not long ago) 34 miles round trip, add weekend recreational rides I didn't need any padding of any kind. Everything just toughens up with time in the saddle. Sheldon Brown used to say give your butt time and miles to break in. New riders tend to discard saddles too quickly. Riders that take winters off often think they no longer like the saddle they have in the first few weeks of spring. So many saddles end up as landfill. Years ago I contributed a few. So much wasted money.

I've tried the narrow race saddles, mtb saddles, so called hybrid saddles and I even tried a memory foam saddle. Split relief saddles as well. I have spinal nerve damage so a good saddle is worth it's weight in gold if I'm to continue riding.

While commuting those many miles, I started getting numbness in an area no man wants to lose feeling. So numb you could have cut it off with a hatchet and I wouldn't have known. I thought I had some serious medical problems. Checked out, and no. A friend who also commuted a lot told me my saddle was too wide for my frame and way too soft for my pelvic bones (sitz bones) to hold my butts soft tissue and nerves off the saddle.

I bought a smaller and firmer saddle. It worked! I was so impressed I went further and purchased a Brooks B17 Imperial. Is now 7 years old with more miles than I know.

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Just a thin sheet of leather stretched over a frame. Formed to my butt years ago. Could last the rest of my life if taken care of. Because I no longer commute like I did I usually wear a padded liner. Works for me.

Such a personal bit of kit, YMMV.
 
even if your like me I commute and ride at about 60 degree angle some weight on my hands but with straight bars. even a somewhat wide seat causes my thighs to rub the saddle. a narrow saddle keeps your thighs from touching the seat so it does not have that friction. Now if you don't peddle a lot then thats different.
 
even if your like me I commute and ride at about 60 degree angle some weight on my hands but with straight bars. even a somewhat wide seat causes my thighs to rub the saddle. a narrow saddle keeps your thighs from touching the seat so it does not have that friction. Now if you don't peddle a lot then thats different.
yes. if you’re actually pedaling a bicycle the saddle needs to be narrow between your legs, since they’re moving up and down! not an issue if you’re just ghosting on the throttle lol.
 
@Jason Knight your enthusiasm for normal shorts rather than form fitting ones will suddenly evaporate the first time you get a bee or hornet blown up the open leg of your shorts.

Riding an overstuffed Barkalounger in an upright ride position may work or even be necessary for some. However, those of us, who want to ride fast and hard over long distances on a regular basis, are wise to pay attention to what has been proven to work.

Feel free to ignore the collective wisdom of millions of cyclists over many decades. Just do so at risk of your own comfort and riding efficiency.

As the eminently quotable Yogi Berra once said, "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."
 
As someone who spent a lot of time as a roadie in my younger days, padded shorts and proper narrow saddles are definitely the best option for long distance comfort. I primarily rode on my carbon road bike with Specialized Toupe saddle, which is thin with minimal padding. My record with that saddle is 12 hours and 20 minutes straight (over 9 hours of that moving) and I was perfectly comfortable (well, my butt was; my legs were pretty dead at the end). I'm not a die hard about the lycra/chamois, and being older and fatter these days I prefer a saddle with a little more pad to it, though still fairly narrow.

For low effort or shorter rides it doesn't really matter what you run. If you're doing real endurance riding, you need not just comfort, but also not to compress too much soft tissue around the sit area, because thats where all the arteries that transfer oxygenated blood to your legs go. Which is why roadie saddles are designed to support on the sit bones only (without a giant seat with padding around them). Its not just marketing or fashion. Also, the chamois (padding) in bike shorts isn't intended to work as padding for comfort. Its a grippy, absorbent material with no seams that 1: covers any seams in the bike shorts, 2: stays in place and doesn't slide against your skin, and 3: absorbs sweat. All of these prevent chafing. Seems weird if you've never experienced saddle sores, and makes a ton of sense once you have.

Its worth noting that MTB saddles have the added design consideration that you need to be able to get off the back of the saddle for steep descents. So the saddle needs to be narrow enough to slide between your legs when standing. Otherwise they are similar. I run the same saddle on my road/gravel/mountain bikes. MTB specific saddles are heavier duty and sometimes clip the back corners to facilitate that sliding back and forth.

Ultimately, go with what works for you (which is definitely extremely personal, and changes over time, and depends on what you ride and how far/hard). Generally though, theres a reason that almost everyone who spends hours on bikes ends up using a narrower, lower padded saddle sized to their sit bones coupled with lycra shorts with a chamois.
 
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