Revolt E+ Motor = EP8

I don’t know if they’ve updated it in the last few days, but Giant‘s own website has been confused on this for quite a while. You can find references to both Shimano and Yamaha all over the Revolt E+ page.

Just cranked off another 30 miles on one of my Yamaha powered bikes and still like it fine. I have noticed for a good while though that it’s hard to really feel the difference between the two top levels of assist, on either one. Supposedly it goes from 190% to 280%, but I’ll be damned if I can tell. I keep meaning to have the Civante hooked up to whatever computer is involved and check the output.

All that said, I wonder why, though. Money, perhaps? But that Yamaha motor has always been super smooth the way it feeds the power on and off.
 
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US page still seems to indicate Yamaha. Canadian site explicitly says EP8. A little weird. Both branded as Syncdrive, to make things even more confusing. They are different models (Revolt E+ for Canada and Revolt E+ Pro for the US). The Canadian bike is listed as a 2022, so maybe Giant is shifting from Yamaha to Shimano? My Emtb is a Shimano E8000, and I have to say I prefer the Yamaha motor on my Revolt. Its much quieter, a bit smoother and has 5 assist levels (Shimano has 3). No experience on the EP8 though.

I kinda wonder if its just a stock thing (if Yamaha hasn't been able to supply the quantity of motors Giant wants, I could see them going to another mfg, and they almost certainly have a strong relationship with Shimano already).
 
The stock/supply chain issue hadn’t occurred to me, strangely, but now that you mention it, that’s a pretty good bet.

While we’re here, Jabberwocky, next time you‘re whiffling through the tulgey wood on that Revolt and a decent hill appears, could you let me know about the feel of those top two levels of assist on yours? When I go from Eco+ to Eco to Standard on my Civante, the boost change is obvious for each level, but if I then step it up to High, I swear I feel no difference over Standard. I don’t know how they’re labeled on the Revolt, but I expect the output levels are supposed to be set similarly.
 
Saratoga Dave said:
While we’re here, Jabberwocky, next time you‘re whiffling through the tulgey wood on that Revolt and a decent hill appears, could you let me know about the feel of those top two levels of assist on yours? When I go from Eco+ to Eco to Standard on my Civante, the boost change is obvious for each level, but if I then step it up to High, I swear I feel no difference over Standard. I don’t know how they’re labeled on the Revolt, but I expect the output levels are supposed to be set similarly.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I've only had the Revolt above the middle setting a few times over the entire time I've owned it. I'll jump it up and down the whole range next time I'm climbing out of town and see if I can feel the difference. I suspect that the highest settings don't feel too much different because you start hitting the motor cap (my FTP is ~200w, so 250% assist is using 500w of motor if I'm pushing hard; going to 375% assist probably doesn't get too much more actual assist out of the motor, it just gets there quicker).

Saratoga Dave said:
The stock/supply chain issue hadn’t occurred to me, strangely, but now that you mention it, that’s a pretty good bet.
Click to expand...

My other thought on the motor switch (if its across the range) is that Giant may not be totally happy that Yamaha is making bikes and competing directly with them in addition to supplying motors. I mean, the Civante is a direct competitor with the Road-E, and the CrossCore is a direct competitor to the Revolt. Its possible whatever supplier contract they had was up and Giant decided they would rather move forward with a supplier that isn't also building bikes that compete with them.

Thats pure speculation though. It could also just be that Shimano offered them a better price or its only switching in certain regions or a whole host of other things.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Did you know Shimano only makes Class 1 motors? These are appropriate for Canada.
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That.... makes sense. I never thought about it, but as popular as Shimanos motors are, they do seem to mainly live in EMTB which are almost universally class 1s. I imagine Shimano could turn them into class 3 motors with a software change if they wanted to.

Still a little weird, because the mounting pattern is totally different, so if Giant is going Shimano in some regions and Yamaha in others, they need to control the supply lines for two different frames now. But I guess for a company as huge as Giant thats a manageable thing. I guess we will find out more when the 2022 bikes start trickling out on the US website later this year. If they do mix motors across regions, wonder if the batteries will remain common.
 
That’s really interesting, since the Revolt has been a Class 3 bike since Day 1, and the website says it still is.
 
Saratoga Dave said:
That’s really interesting, since the Revolt has been a Class 3 bike since Day 1, and the website says it still is.
Click to expand...
The Canadian 2022 Revolt E (not pro) isn't class 3 I don't think. Does Canada have a class 3 equivalent at all, or is everything capped at 20mph?
www.giant-bicycles.com

Revolt E+ (2022) | bike | Giant Bicycles Canada

www.giant-bicycles.com www.giant-bicycles.com

Compared to the 2021 US Revolt E Pro:
www.giant-bicycles.com

Revolt E+ Pro 28mph (2021) | bike | Giant Bicycles US

This new E-bike gives you the power to ride from suburban streets to rugged rural backroads with efficiency and control. It’s a great way to experience adventure on ever-changing terrain and feel the freedom to extend y...
www.giant-bicycles.com www.giant-bicycles.com

Interestingly the specs are almost identical (including frame color and battery). Controller is different; the US has the usual big ridecontrol on the bars, but the Shimano lists a "frame integrated" controller for the Shimano and doesn't seem to show anything on the bars. Canadian doesn't list compatibility with the extender (the US version explicitly does).
 
In Canada assist speed is limited to 32Km/h and max power of 500W, which is closer to Class 2 in US.
 
This looks super interesting, but I note no reference to whether it will be Class 3 anymore in the USA. No pricing on the website either so far.
 
Pretty sure ebike24 is a european site (German, I think), so that doesn't really speak to whats gonna happen in the US. Still interesting article. It does say the EP8 version has Energypak Plus compatibility, and I like the additional info on the top tube control panel. Looks clean. I hate the "5 bar battery life indicator" (my shimano emtb does this on the E7000 display and I strongly prefer the straight percentage my Giant does), but I'm sure its ant+ compatible so I would just get actual percentage on my Garmin.
 
jabberwocky said:
That.... makes sense. I never thought about it, but as popular as Shimanos motors are, they do seem to mainly live in EMTB which are almost universally class 1s. I imagine Shimano could turn them into class 3 motors with a software change if they wanted to.

Still a little weird, because the mounting pattern is totally different, so if Giant is going Shimano in some regions and Yamaha in others, they need to control the supply lines for two different frames now. But I guess for a company as huge as Giant thats a manageable thing. I guess we will find out more when the 2022 bikes start trickling out on the US website later this year. If they do mix motors across regions, wonder if the batteries will remain common.
Click to expand...
I have heard the Giant really already does this for special frames that they supposedly make for one of the other big 4 bike manufacturers. And they would then have a backup supply of motors without any issues by buying from both.
 
jabberwocky said:
I'm pretty sure that if a company like Giant wanted an EP8 unit that assists to 28mph, Shimano could make that happen pretty easily. The cutoff is just software.
Click to expand...
That would be against the whole Shimano philosophy. Let's see what the future holds!
 
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