Review of my Luna Cycles Buzzraw X

[smorgasbord]

Posting this with Pushkar’s permission.

Finally got my Luna Super Banana V2 done and went on its first ride. ...My intention with this post is to give a review of the bike and purchase process with Luna and how, in some ways, the process compares to Watt Wagons specifically the Hydra.

This should have been posted in the Luna Cycles sub-forum. Posting it here shows, to me anyway, an obvious bias since the Hydra is a COMPLETELY different kind of bike. It's a silly comparison.

The bike is a Coast Cycles Buzzraw X that has a Luna Ludicrous V2 BBSHD and a 52V 18AH Dire Wolf Battery.

That is one of the options. Note that Luna is upfront in their description about what the Banana V2 is based upon.

So now my beefs and this is where the difference between Luna and what I’m getting with the Hydra will show. This isn’t a knock or complaint against Luna but all they did was install their motor and battery in the bike. Nothing was done to handle the power this bike makes. Basic SRAM 8 speed setup, cable brakes with 180mm rotors, no upgrades inside the motor like their Peek or steel gears. These are basic off the shelf components and are NOT designed to take this kind of power. Now, like I said I’m not complaining against Luna. It’s basically reflected in the price as to what your getting.

Well, if you wanted to compare to Hydra, then you should have bought a Luna Apollo.

If the Luna has SRAM components, then Luna did more than "install their motor and battery." Coast Cycles sells a version with their own "Coast Components" branded drivetrain and brakes. I don't know if anyone knows anything about whether Coast actually developed their own or whether they're simply rebranding someone else's. Personally, for components I'd rather have a name brand so that I can source replacement parts from multiple sources.

So how does this compare or have anything to do with Watt Wagons and the Hydra. A lot actually and it shows what your getting with the Hydra. Both bikes have similar power but the Hydra is a complete bike, meaning every part on it has been thought out and tested. I know when the bike does finally get here the only thing I’ll need to do to it before riding is cut the steerer tube to my liking. That’s it, charge it up and ride. Won’t have to mess with the brakes, tires, chain, cassette, hub etc. Yes I know the Hydra is more expensive initially but when you factor in what I had to change on the Buzzraw they are very close in total cost.

I love what Pushkar is doing with Watt Wagons, and I like most of what I see from the Hydra, but comparing a full-suspension mountain bike with 27.5 or 29" wheels starting at $4799 to a scooter with 20" wheels starting at $2990 is just wrong.

The proper comparison for the Hydra is Luna's Apollo, with 27.5" wheels starting at $4900. Like Pushkar did with the Hydra, Luna custom designed its own carbon fiber frame. The base version of the Hydra has the stock 750 watt Bafang Ultra, the base version of the Apollo has a 2000 watt Bafang Ultra. Hydra's 52v battery is rated at 17Ah, Apollo's 52V battery is rated at 21 Ah. The base Hydra includes an 11-speed Shimano drivetrain, the Apollo has a 12-speed SRAM (but no longer the XD-based version). The base Hydra has Suntour suspension; the Apollo has Rockshox. The Hydra is much more customizable - the Apollo isn't at all. And the Hydra has the unique Archon controller upgrade available. And perhaps most important to some, Watt Wagons provides superior service (although Luna service has been just fine for me as a DIYer).

If I were buying today instead of 2+ years ago, I'd be looking hard at the Hydra, but I'd be customizing it far above the base, spending about $7K plus post-sale upgrades to seats and handlebars. That's more than I've spent on my Apollo plus upgrades.

 

[Acme]

i was looking hard at the Apollo for at least 6 months before I ordered a FreyCC and then my Hydra but sadly you couldn’t even order one, they were just out of stock. I especially like it’s looks. However as time went on I ordered a Frey CC which I still ride. I quickly realized the standard Bafang controller was not taking me nearly as far as my friends on standard bosch/Shimano ebikes. Sure I could sprint past them in turbo but then my range would less than 1/2 of their’s. My friend Wayne who also has a CC found a post by Tom D who had installed Pushkar’s X1 controller and had nothing but good things to say. I purchased one and was so impressed with the performance and Pushkar’s attitude I ordered a Hydra and later a second one. Unfortunately after 300km the X1 was having problems with the assist. I liked the range and power so much I continued to use it with throttle and peddling.
This is the point where the relationship could have soured. However I spent hours with Pushkar trying to diagnose the problem. Pushkar sent me a second motor but it appears the problem was some interaction with a component on the Frey. The original motor still works so I am back to riding it until Pushkar sends me a motor/controller from his most recent shipment.
Even though we have been unable to solve the problem I feel Pushkar has done everything he can to remedy the situation. I personally feel the X1 is far superior to the Bafang and may sell my Frey if I am unable to get the controller working. Further as I continued to look at the Apollo I couldn’t find any detailed geometry on it and Luna simply tunes the Bafang controller.
Hopefully all the interference issues will be solved with the next batch of controllers. I am also changing out the display and cable.
Maybe Pushkar’s attitude is because he’s relatively new to the business as we all have much more enthusiasm when we are just beginning an adventure. Recently Pushkar has not been available within 24 hours like he was several months ago but I know he is seriously overwhelmed with his current workload. Possibly Luna was more a tentative 10 years ago but the many chats I have read where Luna has become more like the more established companies who know their business will survive because of the unbelievable current demand. Personally I think this attitude will be many ebike companies downfall. I hope Pushkar is able to maintain his current level of involvement in the business and keep it small or bring other people onboard with a similar viewpoints. If he can, he will come out the other side of this in several years with a very successful business.
Just my thoughts
Gary

 

[tomjasz]

Comparing Pushcart to Luna is like comparing BMW to Yugo.

 

[smorgasbord]

My favorite troll will likely jump in, but I was the first support fella at Luna.

Just curious, how many years ago was that?

 

[tomjasz]

Just curious, how many years ago was that?

My bad for mouthing off.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Who's Pushcart?

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Bike has changed a bit since posting. Had to replace the SRAM rear cassette with a custom Surly single speed cogs setup after shredding the SRAM. Shifting controlled by a D1X Electric shifter. Bike is a hoot to ride and well worth the money.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I'll bet every kid around you is just wishing you would let them ride it too.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

I'll bet every kid around you is just wishing you would let them ride it too.

I get plenty of looks and stares. Have to stop multiple times when I ride it to explain who makes it and where to get one. Definitely one of my favorite bikes in my garage.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

This should have been posted in the Luna Cycles sub-forum. Posting it here shows, to me anyway, an obvious bias since the Hydra is a COMPLETELY different kind of bike. It's a silly comparison.


That is one of the options. Note that Luna is upfront in their description about what the Banana V2 is based upon.


Well, if you wanted to compare to Hydra, then you should have bought a Luna Apollo.

If the Luna has SRAM components, then Luna did more than "install their motor and battery." Coast Cycles sells a version with their own "Coast Components" branded drivetrain and brakes. I don't know if anyone knows anything about whether Coast actually developed their own or whether they're simply rebranding someone else's. Personally, for components I'd rather have a name brand so that I can source replacement parts from multiple sources.


I love what Pushkar is doing with Watt Wagons, and I like most of what I see from the Hydra, but comparing a full-suspension mountain bike with 27.5 or 29" wheels starting at $4799 to a scooter with 20" wheels starting at $2990 is just wrong.

The proper comparison for the Hydra is Luna's Apollo, with 27.5" wheels starting at $4900. Like Pushkar did with the Hydra, Luna custom designed its own carbon fiber frame. The base version of the Hydra has the stock 750 watt Bafang Ultra, the base version of the Apollo has a 2000 watt Bafang Ultra. Hydra's 52v battery is rated at 17Ah, Apollo's 52V battery is rated at 21 Ah. The base Hydra includes an 11-speed Shimano drivetrain, the Apollo has a 12-speed SRAM (but no longer the XD-based version). The base Hydra has Suntour suspension; the Apollo has Rockshox. The Hydra is much more customizable - the Apollo isn't at all. And the Hydra has the unique Archon controller upgrade available. And perhaps most important to some, Watt Wagons provides superior service (although Luna service has been just fine for me as a DIYer).

If I were buying today instead of 2+ years ago, I'd be looking hard at the Hydra, but I'd be customizing it far above the base, spending about $7K plus post-sale upgrades to seats and handlebars. That's more than I've spent on my Apollo plus upgrades.

SRAM components come on the bike from Coast Cycles. It’s the standard 8 speed setup the bikes ship with.

 

[Sprocket]

Had to replace the SRAM rear cassette with a custom Surly single speed cogs setup after shredding the SRAM. Shifting controlled by a D1X Electric shifter.

Really appreciating this thread. Enthusiastic noob to the site and ebikes in general. I have a LUNA BBSHD (HotRod Program, Not Ludicrous) and just bought the unpowered Buzzraw X with Cobble Cross fork, hydrolic brake and Vee Tire upgrades. Ccurious about your disc, cassette and shifter switchouts and if I should be considering similar for the lesser power I plan on installing. Any insight to share?

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Really appreciating this thread. Enthusiastic noob to the site and ebikes in general. I have a LUNA BBSHD (HotRod Program, Not Ludicrous) and just bought the unpowered Buzzraw X with Cobble Cross fork, hydrolic brake and Vee Tire upgrades. Ccurious about your disc, cassette and shifter switchouts and if I should be considering similar for the lesser power I plan on installing. Any insight to share?

Probably overkill for a lower powered bike.

 

[Gege Hughes]

Probably, but nothing so far. If it breaks I’ll fix it.

 

[G pin]

View attachment 88023
View attachment 88024Bike has changed a bit since posting. Had to replace the SRAM rear cassette with a custom Surly single speed cogs setup after shredding the SRAM. Shifting controlled by a D1X Electric shifter. Bike is a hoot to ride and well worth the money.

Hi there. I know I'm replying to an old post but I've just got myself a buzzraw x with a bbshd and bac855 controller. I was wondering what size rear cogs you were using as I'm thinking of changing out my 8 speed cassette. Sweet looking bike BTW!

 

[tomjasz]

Just curious, how many years ago was that?

2015 December

 

[Merle Nelson]

Welcome to posting on EBR G pin. If your query doesn't get his attention because the thread is old - or definitely if you're hailing someone other than the original poster try @Cuz Vinny .

 

[G pin]

Welcome to posting on EBR G pin. If your query doesn't get his attention because the thread is old - or definitely if you're hailing someone other than the original poster try @Cuz Vinny .

Hi there. Thanks for the heads up I'll give that a try

 

[TMP]

Any interest in selling your Luna Super Banana V2?