Replacing the drivetrain in Vado SL 4.0: Does it make sense?

[Stefan Mikes]

I am not particularly happy with the 1x10 drivetrain of my Vado SL (not because it is bad but) because there are too big "jumps" between gears, so I spin in one gear and mash in the next.

Percentage of "jump" between neighbouring gears. As you can see, there is a big jump between the 6th-8th gear for 10-speed CS-HG500 of my Vado SL 4.0. I spend most of my pedalling time at these gears.

I'd like to swap the drivetrain to 1x11. My full power Vado 5.0 is equipped with such drivetrain and I am very happy re maintaining favourite cadence.

Currently:

• CS-HG500 11-42t cassette
• Shimano Deore RapidFire 10-speed shifter
• Shimano Deore, Shadow Plus, GS cage, 10-speed

I would like to replace to:

• CS-M7100 11-42t, 11 speed
• SLX 11-speed shifter.

Of course, the chain needs to be replaced, too.

CS-HG500: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-37-42t
CS-M7000: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42t

Now:

1. Does it make sense?
2. Will I need to replace the derailleur, too?
3. General thoughts?

Whoever has experience with such an upgrade: articulate!

 

[Marcela]

I found the same thing re 10 spd vs 11 spd. I much prefer the 11 spd in that respect. With the 10 spd there was a jump between two gears that was annoying and seemed to be the sweet spot for cruising.

You have to wonder why they would use the 10 spd over the 11. Might be something you find out later

 

[Jimbo08]

I believe you will need to upgrade the R. derailleur too to make it work as smooth as you desire. If the 10 speed is driving you crazy then go for it. You at least could re-use the already internally routed shift housing (bonus).

 

[Jimbo08]

When I wear out my original 11-42 cassette a bit I was thinking of switching to 11-40 cassette on my Vado 5.0, just to tighten up the shifting there. At this time I rarely need the 42T cog.

 

[fooferdoggie]

do you need the 42 cog? maybe its time to go with a little smaller changing and then use a 11-34 or 32 cassette.

 

[rochrunner]

The amount that the derailleur has to move to change sprockets for a given pull on the cable must exactly match the incremental pull of the shifter from gear to gear, so it would be highly advisable to replace them together.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You have to wonder why they would use the 10 spd over the 11. Might be something you find out later

The 1x10 system is not only cheaper on the investment side but it also is far cheaper on maintenance. As the overall cassette range is the same for both 1x10 and 1x11 groupsets mentioned here, an average rider wouldn't even notice the difference. (Not everybody is as advanced as you or me)

Vado SL 5.0 comes with the 1x12. For me, it is too much, especially on the maintenance cost side. I admit I got spoilt with the 1x11 in my big Vado.

 

[Marcela]

Re the cog size, I tried to go from a 11 to a 12 and found the difference not worth the trouble. I also considered compacting the tooth numbers with something smaller than the 42 and found the more I rode without assist the more the bigger cogs came into use. That big one could be a life saver. fwiw.

 

[PedalUma]

I am looking at KMC e11 and e10 chains in my hand right now. The e11 costs 140% more. Its rollers are thinner but the side plates are the same thickness. That means during a bench test it is just as strong but with clocking up miles the load is focused on a narrower area. It will need replacement more frequently and so will the other components because the cutting pressure is greater and the cogs thinner. The new shifter will come with the cable but it would be a good time to replace the worn housing. Sometimes you can attach the new housing to the old and pull them through together. Extra-long tandem cable can help with this because shrink tube can fail unless it is adhesive and long enough and you have enough room for its larger diameter. You would need the shifter, chain, cassette and derailleur. 10/11 use the same chainring. The 10-speed cassette you have as increments of about 14% consistently. Not bad. What about saving the money and just adjusting the assist level to help smooth out the ride feel?

 

[Allan47.7339]

The 1x10 system is not only cheaper on the investment side but it also is far cheaper on maintenance. As the overall cassette range is the same for both 1x10 and 1x11 groupsets mentioned here, an average rider wouldn't even notice the difference. (Not everybody is as advanced as you or me)

Vado SL 5.0 comes with the 1x12. For me, it is too much, especially on the maintenance cost side. I admit I got spoilt with the 1x11 in my big Vado.

I chose the 5.0 because of the 12 speed. I ride it as much as possible at zero assist and the extra gears do make for smoother steps. I ordered a couple of extra 12 speed Shimano chains to have on hand for maintenance. I generally only use an e-bike one out of three bike rides so it should be a while before I need to replace a chain. The disadvantage is the 12 speed systems tend to be more brand specific on the consumables, at least for now.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I chose the 5.0 because of the 12 speed. I ride it as much as possible at zero assist and the extra gears do make for smoother steps. I ordered a couple of extra 12 speed Shimano chains to have on hand for maintenance. I generally only use an e-bike one out of three bike rides so it should be a while before I need to replace a chain. The disadvantage is the 12 speed systems tend to be more brand specific on the consumables, at least for now.

I had the 1x12 drivetrain on an e-MTB that belongs to my brother now. 1x12 is certainly useful in mountain biking. However, my brother has just discovered how expensive the maintenance of the 1x12 system really is. Luckily for him, he is an apt mechanic, and after sourcing three cogs (one of them from Germany) and a new expensive chain, he can repair his bike himself...

 

[Allan47.7339]

What about trying a smaller Praxis chain ring to move your preferred gears to the 4 to 6th gears and bias more toward climbing? If that doesn't work then go the a new chain, cassette, shifter and derailleur to get eleven. edit: Try smaller chain rings on the simulator to see if that will work.

 

[PedalUma]

I find the smaller Praxis idea attractive, @Allan47.7339. Just asking: What about a smaller narrow wide 10/11 chainring that is oval?

I am about to do a little cheat on one of my personal bikes that has through frame shift routing. By the book it should get new housing but I am going to pull the cable and lube the inside of the housing with O-ring lube before installing the replacement cable. Fishing real lube also works, inside click shifters too. Shimano makes a lot of performance fishing reals as well as bike parts. Unlike petroleum products this slick stuff is compatible with plastic, rubber and metal while preventing oxidation and rust.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What about a smaller narrow wide 10/11 chainring that is oval?

Ever ridden a mid-drive motor with torque sensing?
Busted.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What about trying a smaller Praxis chain ring to move your preferred gears to the 4 to 6th gears and bias more toward climbing? If that doesn't work then go the a new chain, cassette, shifter and derailleur to get eleven. edit: Try smaller chain rings on the simulator to see if that will work.

Allan: I live on the flat. A smaller chainring would enforce riding in small vulnerable cogs.
Basically, the whole story is to get even jumps between the gears. Pity that almost whole drivetrain needs to be replaced.

 

[rochrunner]

I chose the 5.0 because of the 12 speed. I ride it as much as possible at zero assist and the extra gears do make for smoother steps. I ordered a couple of extra 12 speed Shimano chains to have on hand for maintenance. I generally only use an e-bike one out of three bike rides so it should be a while before I need to replace a chain. The disadvantage is the 12 speed systems tend to be more brand specific on the consumables, at least for now.

You sound like you do exactly my type of riding. I currently have a Vado 4.0, which is much more than I need, and will be ordering a SL 5.0 to have for next year. I also have a road bike and a hybrid, but it's possible that the 5.0 at zero assist will be close enough to my hybrid that I can dispose of that bike and free up some space.

On the durability of the drivetrain in general, since the SL is not that much heavier than many other bikes that use 11 and 12-speed drivetrains, and the total power output is not that high compared to the regular Vado line, I think that a lot of the excess wear is due to the jerkiness of shifting that can be hard to avoid since the bikes do not have a motor cutout integrated into the shifters. On my regular bikes, I am always careful to back off my pedaling effort when I shift gears if possible. I also do this on my e-bike, but it's a bit harder to do smoothly. The worst situation is to be climbing a difficult hill and have to downshift: easing up will cause you to lose momentum, but just forcing the shift usually results in a "clunk" that you know isn't good for the chain or cogs!

 

[BioWheel]

You sound like you do exactly my type of riding. I currently have a Vado 4.0, which is much more than I need, and will be ordering a SL 5.0 to have for next year. I also have a road bike and a hybrid, but it's possible that the 5.0 at zero assist will be close enough to my hybrid that I can dispose of that bike and free up some space.

On the durability of the drivetrain in general, since the SL is not that much heavier than many other bikes that use 11 and 12-speed drivetrains, and the total power output is not that high compared to the regular Vado line, I think that a lot of the excess wear is due to the jerkiness of shifting that can be hard to avoid since the bikes do not have a motor cutout integrated into the shifters. On my regular bikes, I am always careful to back off my pedaling effort when I shift gears if possible. I also do this on my e-bike, but it's a bit harder to do smoothly. The worst situation is to be climbing a difficult hill and have to downshift: easing up will cause you to lose momentum, but just forcing the shift usually results in a "clunk" that you know isn't good for the chain or cogs!

Exactly my experience Roch - clunking through shifts if I'm pedaling. I've taken to stop pedaling for a second when shifting and seems to be bit less stressful sounding on the drivetrain. I'm not sure if this will have positive effect on chain and cassette but hopeful.

 

[TS25]

..., I am always careful to back off my pedaling effort when I shift gears if possible. I also do this on my e-bike, but it's a bit harder to do smoothly. The worst situation is to be climbing a difficult hill and have to downshift: easing up will cause you to lose momentum, but just forcing the shift usually results in a "clunk" that you know isn't good for the chain or cogs!

Exactly my experience Roch - clunking through shifts if I'm pedaling. I've taken to stop pedaling for a second when shifting and seems to be bit less stressful sounding on the drivetrain. I'm not sure if this will have positive effect on chain and cassette but hopeful.

That's why you should shift down before you start climbing the hill, and yes, stop pedaling for a moment when shifting is the best you can do for smooth shifting and longer drivetrain life. Proven.

 

[TS25]

... here is a big jump between the 6th-8th gear for 10-speed CS-HG500 of my Vado SL 4.0. I spend most of my pedalling time at these gears.
I'd like to swap the drivetrain to 1x11. My full power Vado 5.0 is equipped with such drivetrain and I am very happy re maintaining favourite cadence.
...
CS-HG500: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-37-42t
CS-M7000: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42t

 

[TS25]

So instead of cog 18 you would get 17 - 19 cog? And all the rest is the same.
My 2c: too much fuss changing the drivetrain components for that (little?) effect.