Replacement steel gear

[Trail Cruiser]

I think 1500 is an OK level. But some of us tone the amps down a bit for longevity. Want a reliable fast mid drive? Think Lightening Rods. We sell dozens of parts orders daily, and few if any nylon gears. I’ve had spares for every one of my 6 BBSxx motors. 01, 02, and HD’s. They are all still in my parts box. One article by an abusive user has spread a false urban legend.

These are the 2 most powerful ebike motors offered by Bafang, and both of them are rated at 750/1,000 watts.

MM G320.1000 or what is popularly known as the "BBSHD" is rated at 750/1,000 watts (I guess depending on the choice of controller).
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

MM G510.750/1000 or what is popularly known as the "Max Ultra" is also rated at 750/1,000 watts.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Yet many of these motors survive continuous abuses from hot rodding, producing 2-5 times the original power.

 

[tomjasz]

I had 3 HD motors develped loud noise problems after 500 and 600 miles using it for trail riding. nylon gears looked ok but hard to see wear. steel helical gears had visible wear. it could also be worn bearings but its difficult to remove.
Anyone seen this issue?

California eBikes has designed and sells a bearing tool, but you likely ran a relatively poorly greased motor.

These are the 2 most powerful ebike motors offered by Bafang, and both of them are rated at 750/1,000 watts.

MM G320.1000 or what is popularly known as the "BBSHD" is rated at 750/1,000 watts (I guess depending on the choice of controller).
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

MM G510.750/1000 or what is popularly known as the "Max Ultra" is also rated at 750/1,000 watts.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Yet many of these motors survive continuous abuses from hot rodding, producing 2-5 times the original power.

um, yes rating may be 1000W but, for example, running stock the HD runs at 1500W peak.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

California eBikes has designed and sells a bearing tool, but you likely ran a relatively poorly greased motor.

um, yes rating may be 1000W but, for example, running stock the HD runs at 1500W peak.

Could be that "nominal" power is synonymous to "rated" power and the manufacturer did not mention "peak" power (max electrical input into the motor) which we already know since the information can be accessed when hooked up to a computer.

 

[ROBBIEVILL]

500 to 600 miles on a 750W 25A HD should not have this problem. My 750W BBSO2 commuter had 6500 miles before the crank gear stripped due to no grease. I did not know it had to be re-grease since i never seen or read any service instructions.

I re- greased the first failed HD motor with synthetic grease, nylon and steel helical gear then the crank spur gears. Noise went away or hardly noticeable on the first two rides then the noise came back. if i had a bad manufacturing batch, why did all 3 motors bought from two suppliers in China and one with EMP Las Vegas had the same failure mode at almost the same mileage range.

I am wondering if i am the only one having this issue because we use it mostly on single track mtb? Or there is a design or material manufacturing issue with these.

 

[tomjasz]

500 to 600 miles on a 750W 25A HD should not have this problem. My 750W BBSO2 commuter had 6500 miles before the crank gear stripped due to no grease. I did not know it had to be re-grease since i never seen or read any service instructions.

I re- greased the first failed HD motor with synthetic grease, nylon and steel helical gear then the crank spur gears. Noise went away or hardly noticeable on the first two rides then the noise came back. if i had a bad manufacturing batch, why did all 3 motors bought from two suppliers in China and one with EMP Las Vegas had the same failure mode at almost the same mileage range.

I am wondering if i am the only one having this issue because we use it mostly on single track mtb? Or there is a design or material manufacturing issue with these.

What are the three serial numbers? I suspect all three may have been “greased” with the same lack of attention by Bafang. Or may have been from a very close build range. Serial would perhaps address that. Looking back through Bafang history on Endless Sphere, to me, demonstrates we’ve all been beta testers for a largely unresponsive company. A company taht makes eBikes motors as a small part of their business. Also a range of motors that meets or exceeds many other motors on the market. For many, a love hate relationship. Best kits I have are Bafang. Worst kit I had was a Bafang. That said there are scores of poorer China motor builders. I sell them, ride them, love them, hate them, but find no kit alternatives, unless willing to spend twice the cost of a BBSHD. BTW we still ride two BBS01’s that have been regularly serviced. Serviced only because I kept up with forum reviews for 5 years. Hopefully my maintenance keeps them going...Bafang no longer supports them with repair parts. If it weren’t for folks like EM3ev, empowered Cycles, and California eBike the parts chain would be even more difficult.

As always, this is just my experience. Your mileage may vary. <wink>

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

Greetings,

I've been doing some research which has led me to this specific thread, and I'd like to make some inquiries of you that are participating within this thread.

First, some background - I have in the past made a number of gears and gear trains for e-bikes, from Spur, to Helical, and all the way through compound Planetaries. Most of this has been done in the capacity of Prototyping and small production runs for the companies that design and manufacture them and their controllers. In the not so distant past, I have also made some replacement and upgrade gears for friends that have wrecked their own, or otherwise wished to squeeze a bit more from what they had.

Recently, we have been asked to make some gears specifically for these Bafang kits, the reasons for which you all here seem all too familiar with. In preparing to do so, it occurred to me to ask some questions of actual users of these specific ones, in effort to possibly gain a better understanding of what choices and options might be valued over others, from actual users. To be very clear - I'm not selling anything, here. Even once we have made some, they will be sold through normal routes. I come here trying to learn a bit more about the end users wishes and desires.

So, if I'm not intruding overmuch and am not stepping on any toes I'd like to ask the following input from you. The assumption being that the gear in question is going to be replaced, regardless.

All things being equal, would a metal or plastic gear be preferable to you? Why?

If a synthetic gear were able to withstand the abuse much better than the OEM one, would that be preferable to you? Or would you still opt for a metallic replacement? ( to be clear - a synthetic one will never take the abuse that a metallic one will )

If you are replacing the gear, would you rather have options of ratio? Or, would you rather just deal with the known ratio?

We are a Gear Manufacturer and manufacturing company. We are going to be making _some_ gears, regardless. It simply occurs to me to ask the people that actually use them if they had any preferences or desires if there were no insurmountable barriers from their choices, rather than the parts houses and sales people.

If there is a better place for me to post these kinds of questions with regard to this specific gear, please do let me know. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

As a tangent

What are the three serial numbers? I suspect all three may have been “greased” with the same lack of attention by Bafang. Or may have been from a very close build range. Serial would perhaps address that. Looking back through Bafang history on Endless Sphere, to me, demonstrates we’ve all been beta testers for a largely unresponsive company. A company taht makes eBikes motors as a small part of their business. Also a range of motors that meets or exceeds many other motors on the market. For many, a love hate relationship. Best kits I have are Bafang. Worst kit I had was a Bafang. That said there are scores of poorer China motor builders. I sell them, ride them, love them, hate them, but find no kit alternatives, unless willing to spend twice the cost of a BBSHD. BTW we still ride two BBS01’s that have been regularly serviced. Serviced only because I kept up with forum reviews for 5 years. Hopefully my maintenance keeps them going...Bafang no longer supports them with repair parts. If it weren’t for folks like EM3ev, empowered Cycles, and California eBike the parts chain would be even more difficult.

As always, this is just my experience. Your mileage may vary. <wink>

The poor quality control, poor aftermarket support, and the switching to cheaper internal components is just part of accepted "normal" Chinese culture.

You are better off dealing with Chinese vendor in the US than dealing directly with the manufacturer in China.

As perfectly described by these 2 foreugners who live in China. Chinese people buy things and use them til they break but never spend a cent to maintain them. They rather prefer to buy another cheap replacement.

Don't buy directly from China. Buy it from a local vendor that honors warranty and provides aftermarket support.

 

[tomjasz]

As a tangent


The poor quality control, poor aftermarket support, and the switching to cheaper internal components is just part of accepted "normal" Chinese culture.

You are better off dealing with Chinese vendor in the US than dealing directly with the manufacturer in China.

As perfectly described by these 2 westerners who live in China. Chinese people buy things and use them til they break but never spend a cent to maintain them. They rather prefer to buy another cheap

Don't buy directly from China. Buy it from a local vendor that honors warranty and provides aftermarket support.

Generalities regarding cultural norms from outsiders are useless. I hope we don’t often go down this road.

Good relationships can be established and there are some incredibly well made motors. Mac, Mxus, Q, eZee, Chstalyte....and more....seldom seen in any shops. Sorry, I don’t buy the Anglo view of Chinese cultural norms. None of the Chinese friends, or business associates I deal with live in the sort of culture often described in forums. The negative examples are no more agregious than what I’ve seen across America for 50. And returning...

Try selling quality kits. The American market is demanding stupidly low prices. We bear the responsibility for driving prices and quality down. There are hundreds of brand factories producing high quality goods, the list is pretty obvious across many markets.

 

[tomjasz]

Greetings,

I've been doing some research which has led me to this specific thread, and I'd like to make some inquiries of you that are participating within this thread.

First, some background - I have in the past made a number of gears and gear trains for e-bikes, from Spur, to Helical, and all the way through compound Planetaries. Most of this has been done in the capacity of Prototyping and small production runs for the companies that design and manufacture them and their controllers. In the not so distant past, I have also made some replacement and upgrade gears for friends that have wrecked their own, or otherwise wished to squeeze a bit more from what they had.

Recently, we have been asked to make some gears specifically for these Bafang kits, the reasons for which you all here seem all too familiar with. In preparing to do so, it occurred to me to ask some questions of actual users of these specific ones, in effort to possibly gain a better understanding of what choices and options might be valued over others, from actual users. To be very clear - I'm not selling anything, here. Even once we have made some, they will be sold through normal routes. I come here trying to learn a bit more about the end users wishes and desires.

So, if I'm not intruding overmuch and am not stepping on any toes I'd like to ask the following input from you. The assumption being that the gear in question is going to be replaced, regardless.

All things being equal, would a metal or plastic gear be preferable to you? Why?

If a synthetic gear were able to withstand the abuse much better than the OEM one, would that be preferable to you? Or would you still opt for a metallic replacement? ( to be clear - a synthetic one will never take the abuse that a metallic one will )

If you are replacing the gear, would you rather have options of ratio? Or, would you rather just deal with the known ratio?

We are a Gear Manufacturer and manufacturing company. We are going to be making _some_ gears, regardless. It simply occurs to me to ask the people that actually use them if they had any preferences or desires if there were no insurmountable barriers from their choices, rather than the parts houses and sales people.

If there is a better place for me to post these kinds of questions with regard to this specific gear, please do let me know. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

Why? Gear failures in Bafang motors are rare. Metal gears so far have been noisy and failed. Metal gears are available for geared hub motors and typically users will only instal one. Again, more steel, more noise.

Changing ratio would mean other changes, perhaps we’d see better performance with programming and fine tuning controllers.

I think a better quality synthetic gear, that kept the motor quiet, might be quite popular.
Early gears are getting hard to find for Bafang mids.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

Why? Gear failures in Bafang motors are rare. Metal gears so far have been noisy and failed. Metal gears are available for geared hub motors and typically users will only instal one. Again, more steel, more noise.

Changing ratio would mean other changes, perhaps we’d see better performance with programming and fine tuning controllers.

I think a better quality synthetic gear, that kept the motor quiet, might be quite popular.
Early gears are getting hard to find for Bafang mids.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. The "why" is easy to answer. It is because we have been asked to make them, by others. To be fair, some of this is from individuals that are racing them. However, a fair amount of them are also due to people encountering failures.

As for metal gears failing, I have to admit curiosity and would love to know the details of such failures. Would you happen to have any links or examples that you can direct me to so that I can educate myself a bit more with regard to that? Unless the gears were made poorly or of substandard materials, I just can't envision how a weaker OEM plastic one would have more longevity than a metal one.

Too, they do not need to be noisy. Will the metal gear be more noisy than a plastic one? Assuredly. But made well, they needn't be noisy in general.

Ultimately, I think that we'll be offering both metal and plastic replacements in an effort to serve both camps. We are using a much higher end synthetic than the OEM ones are made of, so there are gains to be enjoyed there. And for those that wish to continue racing them, the metal ones will offer strength and longevity much greater than their counterparts.

I'd love to hear more from you and others. Thank you.

 

[TForan]

Op here, I received the three steel gears from Roshan last winter because , well, he's a really cool guy ! I still haven't installed them yet because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have torture tested the nylon gears by starting in high gear with the highest assist going up hills without failure. Absolutely dead quiet and there's something to be said for 1500 watts of power. I know it's illegal on most if not all bike paths and I was a bit worried what the law might say but I encountered two cops and all they said was " Nice Bike! " They also ride E-bikes.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Generalities regarding cultural norms from outsiders are useless. I hope we don’t often go down this road.

Good relationships can be established and there are some incredibly well made motors. Mac, Mxus, Q, eZee, Chstalyte....and more....seldom seen in any shops. Sorry, I don’t buy the Anglo view of Chinese cultural norms. None of the Chinese friends, or business associates I deal with live in the sort of culture often described in forums. The negative examples are no more agregious than what I’ve seen across America for 50. And returning...

Try selling quality kits. The American market is demanding stupidly low prices. We bear the responsibility for driving prices and quality down. There are hundreds of brand factories producing high quality goods, the list is pretty obvious across many markets.

Did you happen to watch the video?

 

[tomjasz]

Did you happen to watch the video?

Yes. We'll agree to disagree. I enjoy your helpful posts.

 

[tomjasz]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. The "why" is easy to answer. It is because we have been asked to make them, by others. To be fair, some of this is from individuals that are racing them. However, a fair amount of them are also due to people encountering failures.

As for metal gears failing, I have to admit curiosity and would love to know the details of such failures. Would you happen to have any links or examples that you can direct me to so that I can educate myself a bit more with regard to that? Unless the gears were made poorly or of substandard materials, I just can't envision how a weaker OEM plastic one would have more longevity than a metal one.

Too, they do not need to be noisy. Will the metal gear be more noisy than a plastic one? Assuredly. But made well, they needn't be noisy in general.

Ultimately, I think that we'll be offering both metal and plastic replacements in an effort to serve both camps. We are using a much higher end synthetic than the OEM ones are made of, so there are gains to be enjoyed there. And for those that wish to continue racing them, the metal ones will offer strength and longevity much greater than their counterparts.

I'd love to hear more from you and others. Thank you.

I happen to work with a very busy reseller of replacement parts. That and relationships with several OEM bike sellers using BBSxx motors. None of us have more than a handful of sales or warranty replacements of plastic gears. I do understand there are those who want to make a Ferrari out of a Chevy. All the best. I look forward to reading about alternative synthetics. electricbike.com/forum and Facebook pages will have more fast bike fellas.

BTW congratulations on an impressive business profile. You sound like the sort that will make this a success!

 

[TForan]

I happen to work with a very busy reseller of replacement parts. That and relationships with several OEM bike sellers using BBSxx motors. None of us have more than a handful of sales or warranty replacements of plastic gears. I do understand there are those who want to make a Ferrari out of a Chevy. All the best. I look forward to reading about alternative synthetics. electricbike.com/forum and Facebook pages will have more fast bike fellas.

BTW congratulations on an impressive business profile. You sound like the sort that will make this a success!

Have you had much experience with the Bafang Ultra ? I know through Roshan, that they had some failures but not a large percentage.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Have you had much experience with the Bafang Ultra ? I know through Roshan, that they had some failures but not a large percentage.

Failures likely related to hot rodding (over volting and over amping it to destruction).

 

[TForan]

Failures likely related to hot rodding (over volting and over amping it to destruction).

Yea, that will do it , but I think these were stock 30a controllers.

 

[tomjasz]

Yea, that will do it , but I think these were stock 30a controllers.

Despite the issues the BBSxx mid drives are fairly cheap motors. Price wise, compared to Bosch and others. The less expensive mids have more issues, IME. A high percentage of BBSxx drives are pretty much problem free, until, as Mark points out, they are hotrodded. But perhaps not unlike gas motors, hotrodding reduces life span. I have a five year old BBS01, actually two, with over 5000 miles on each. No failures. Regular lubrication has kept them goin. But parts will be an issue so I replaced one with a GD and stashed one for parts. Despite the issues, they remain the best choice in mid kits. But understanding maintenance and limitations is key. I’m not one that approves or is interested in 30 plus mile and hour eBikes with brakes engineered for 1/3, or more, less speed. I think the speed upgrades are not only dangerous, but destructive to the system. That said those that understand the limitations will be happy, those that are unable to repair and maintain, may be disappointed. Another observation reveals many buy mid drives when a DD or GD would be more sensible.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Yea, that will do it , but I think these were stock 30a controllers.

People at Luna cycle dismantled the two most powerful Bafang mid drives (HD and Ultra) and compared them side by side. At 2.48 part of the video, they specifically mentioned that the nylon gears are adequate and they haven't really seen significant reports of nylon gear failures on the HD's and Ultra's.

Note, both are rated at 1,000 watts by the manufacturer.