Ready To Buy ... I Think Ive Narrowed It Down??

[Chopper]

G'day guys, my first post here. Having never owned an ebike I thought Id ask the question here. I've been researching for a couple of weeks now for a bike I can commute to and from work with. The ride is roughly 30km each way, a few hills probably only rising 40 metres in elevation. Its probably 30% road, 70% shared pedestrian/bike path. If need be I would have the option to charge during the day when I get to work. I have a locker here at work, but no shower facilities so would be using assist more on the way into work to avoid arriving sweaty than I would on the rife home. The only thing I'd be carry on the bike is my laptop, some lunch and some clothes. After a few weeks of research I think I've narrowed it down to 3 bikes and was hoping for your thoughts/suggestions/ recommendations.

The bikes are the NCM Moscow Plus (I'd likely replace the tyres), ET Cycle 1000 and finally one that is local to Australia and that's the Mamba Venom Antidote. I'll post a link here, just wanted your guys opinion. To my untrained, amateur eye it looks both reasonably spec'ed and priced, coming in roughly the same price as the other 2. I'd really appreciate your thoughts - cheers.

https://www.pedl.com.au/products/ma...-electric-bike-48v-750w-15ah-720wh-lg-battery

 

[dodgeman]

I think that looks like a good choice. I think I would want a fairly powerful bike like that just because you don’t want to get to work tired and hot.

 

[indianajo]

A thing you cannot tell from a features list or a picture, is what quality of parts the vendor is buying. There is "steel" made of old car batteries, copper wire and zinc, and there is "steel" made of iron carbon and molybidinum or vanadium. The first type stretches or fractures, the latter is suitable for regular use. Same with the aluminum. Because I am small I rode kiddie quality discount store bikes until 2018. Cables required constant adjustment, tires would fall off the rim because wheels were too small, axles would fracture, strip threads, or the races would come loose and drop the balls on the road. For size reasons I bought a Yuba in 12/17 and it is a whole different experience. I ride, wear out tires, chains (5000 miles) and motors (~4000 miles). No fiddling with shifter & brake cables or spokes.
One way to tell is how many complaints the purchasers make if a brand. NCM has 317 complaints today on the brand forum. ET has none. The Mamba has no US record. Check your local ebike forums. If you need your bike every day, it is best to buy from a major like trek, giant, cannondale, specialized, yamaha, kona, gazelle, reiss & mueller. I lucked out on my Yuba, a tiny brand but top quality components. I am putting about the seventh tire on the back wheel today, at 2000 miles per.
To get motor life up to 10000 or more, shimano & bosch have that reputation. You have to put up with constant chain replacement (~1000 miles or less) but that does not cost like motors. Other downsides, you have to keep the display out of the rain and branded batteries have great resale value on the internet or out of the boot. My geared hub runs fine without a display. and 5000 miles per chain is as high as i've seen on this site, but 2 years 4000 miles is about life on geared hubs I have found. The mamba doesn't say but appears to have a bafang mid-drive, which has a lot of fans on this site.

 

[Chopper]

The mamba doesn't say but appears to have a bafang mid-drive, which has a lot of fans on this site.

It's a hub drive. I hear what you're saying regarding quality materials. Looking at the spec list though names of components appear familiar - Shimano, Bafang, Suntour, LG. This is what piqued my interest in regards to this model. I've searched local forums for info but these are a new model, the model they are superseding doesn't carry the same componentry, but in saying that, I have not found any issues with frames cracks or fractures.

The ET T1000 gets some rave review, minimal issues. My local bike store has all 3 so I'm organising a test ride early next week. The one thing that puts me off a little is the sheer size of the T1000. But riding it will put my mind at ease on whether it feels as big as it looks.

Appreciate your responses.

 

[BlackHand]

A test ride should tell you a lot.

FWIW, I believe NCM and ET Cycle are both Leon Cycle brands and both use Das-Kit which have an OK but not great rep. Anecdotally I've heard of a fair number of people needing to replace the controller on Das-Kit bikes.

I think you are correct to be leary of the size of the ET T1000. I don't really see any benefit to 4" tires on a commuter other than comfort I guess? They just add weight and more rolling resistance which you then overcome with a bigger battery(more weight). The size and weight would not work for my workplace situation.

On the face of it the Mamba seems like a better commuter choice. I would be a bit skeptical of the Logan brakes. You would want to make sure you make an informed choice about the legality of a high speed throttle ebike where you plan to ride it. And you would probably need to charge at work since your round trip is pretty close to their range estimate.

 

[kevinmccune]

thought ncm was going out of business? perhaps look elsewhere.i bought a street bike from them,it was a pretty nice bike,sold it for a 75% loss( my normal way of getting rid of surplus) if the company is shakey look elsewhere one other thing when you see bikes for 50% off dont bite they are over hyped and over priced to begin with took a $500 loss on a jaison to get rid of it,couldnt set the pedal assist to suit me and it was heavy.

 

[Taylor57]

61 lbs seems reasonable as does 2200 for the price. I'm assuming the 2200 is AUS or roughly 1500 US?

 

[indianajo]

The ride is roughly 30km each way, a few hills probably only rising 40 metres in elevation. Its probably 30% road, 70% shared pedestrian/bike path.

So you are commuting possibly 4000 miles per year? I would like to compare that to the average 2000 miles I have gotten out of 5 geared hub motors. One 1300 watt one wore out the gears at ~4500 miles. Two shorted the windings due to excessive heat on a hill 25 miles from home, one rated 350 watt, one rated 500 watt. The 350 watt one was too slow up the hills, too much time spent lugging at low speed. The 500 watt one only lasted 70 miles, and I was not even riding the route with 15% grades. The first 60 miles I stayed off the hills and rode dangerous State hwy 3. It burned two miles after a 12% grade of 100'. Unbranded piece of garbage. Two 1000 watt torque monsters (MAC 12t & 11t) destroyed the clutch, which will not engage anymore. 2500 miles. My bike even with 60 lb groceries, 20 lb spares tools & water & 160 lb me only weighs 320 lb. If you only weigh 160 lb, only climb the one hill, and do not carry groceries, your geared hub motor might last 4000-5000 miles. A year.
You, I maintain, are in the market for a bosch shimano or bafang mid-drive, which might last 10000 miles or more. A belt drive would solve the 1000 mile chain replacement problem. At least belts require replacing at ~10000 miles.
Agree with blackhand, fat tires (3" up) with 20-30 psi are not for commuting on pavement. Too much energy (watthours) goes into rolling resistance of the tire. If you need the comfort, buy a spring seatpost, or a suspension bike frame: and 55 psi tires. At age 74 I do fine on 3.7 hour commutes with a hard frame and 2.1" tires aired up to 55 psi. I sit vertically. My spine is fine. I have had pain in my hips due to the lack of fat which melted away in my 60's. A selle royale explora seat with an additional cloud 9 seat pad has finally solved that problem.

 

[harryS]

Used to be stories about ebikers being chased down in some parts of Australia and having their bikes impounded for exceeding power and speed.

This link must no longer be valid or everyone ignores it now? It basically says ebikes are oh so much fun, but 250W max and 25km/hour in most of your provinces.

The only thing I liked about my 26" fat bike is that it's more visible to cars, and you might get a little more courtesy riding one to work, but since I'm retired, I don't have much use for mine, I put street tires to replace the knobbies, and they tend to slip and steer wide on me too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Chopper, let me chime in only to tell you an Australian should ride a legal EU/UK e-bike.

 

[Chopper]

61 lbs seems reasonable as does 2200 for the price. I'm assuming the 2200 is AUS or roughly 1500 US?

yep, thats AUD.

 

[Chopper]

So you are commuting possibly 4000 miles per year? I would like to compare that to the average 2000 miles I have gotten out of 5 geared hub motors. One 1300 watt one wore out the gears at ~4500 miles. Two shorted the windings due to excessive heat on a hill 25 miles from home, one rated 350 watt, one rated 500 watt. The 350 watt one was too slow up the hills, too much time spent lugging at low speed. The 500 watt one only lasted 70 miles, and I was not even riding the route with 15% grades. The first 60 miles I stayed off the hills and rode dangerous State hwy 3. It burned two miles after a 12% grade of 100'. Unbranded piece of garbage. Two 1000 watt torque monsters (MAC 12t & 11t) destroyed the clutch, which will not engage anymore. 2500 miles. My bike even with 60 lb groceries, 20 lb spares tools & water & 160 lb me only weighs 320 lb. If you only weigh 160 lb, only climb the one hill, and do not carry groceries, your geared hub motor might last 4000-5000 miles. A year.
You, I maintain, are in the market for a bosch shimano or bafang mid-drive, which might last 10000 miles or more. A belt drive would solve the 1000 mile chain replacement problem. At least belts require replacing at ~10000 miles.
Agree with blackhand, fat tires (3" up) with 20-30 psi are not for commuting on pavement. Too much energy (watthours) goes into rolling resistance of the tire. If you need the comfort, buy a spring seatpost, or a suspension bike frame: and 55 psi tires. At age 74 I do fine on 3.7 hour commutes with a hard frame and 2.1" tires aired up to 55 psi. I sit vertically. My spine is fine. I have had pain in my hips due to the lack of fat which melted away in my 60's. A selle royale explora seat with an additional cloud 9 seat pad has finally solved that problem.

thanks for your post mate - you make some really valid points when you break it all down the way you have. And gives me more to think about!

 

[indianajo]

Bosch, shimano, bafang may refuse to sell mid drives into the Australian market due to the stupid 250 w rule. With my outlaw 1000 w Mac12t geared hub motor, I managed a blistering 9 mph when I was in shape in Septembers. I do NOT want a Bosch mid-drive, they spin the motor with your feet unpowered. They and shimano also require a display, which may short out in the rain (my ebikeling one did) and I ride in the rain. Geared hubs do not drag unpowered, and at age 74 I NEED the exercise of riding unpowered 6 hours a week at 80-120 bpm. The motor is for the 20 excessive hills, also the days when the headwind is 25 mph in my face all the way home. Also geared hub motors run fine without a display, just e "door switch" on a scooter controller. Just when I find a motor that works, nobody will sell me a second one. Ebikeling replaced the 48 v 1300 w motor that lasted 4500 miles with a 36 v 750 w model. My battery is 48 v and 6 1/2 years old, and works fine. I almost could not buy the first 48v 1000w MAC12T, a vendor had one but cancelled my order because he was afraid I would burn it out since I wanted it to climb hills in southern Indiana. I found the last Mac12t at another vendor, and he never sold another one. Mac12t was a perfect hill ciimber, would get me across 6 lane 150' State Hwy 62 on a 6 second green light with the throttle, and never burned the winding. The clutch failed. Nobody in the US stocks Mac12t now. I can buy 8 ea. Mac12t from cutler mac for ~$2000, which I might do. http://www.macmc.com.cn/productgrouplist-200913141/Ebike_Hub_Motor.html Changing motors every 15 months for $250 each is not a problem for me. I keep one built in a wheel in the garage. You are not age 74, are not retired, and do not have time to change motors twice a year. Your daily commute would take that many gearsets a year.

 

[harryS]

More on silly australian ebike restrictions. What's the real story?

Tech Tips - Throttle e-bikes are now illegal in NSW

We're Sydney's home of commuting, cargo bikes, cycle touring and bikepacking. If your bicycle is the way you get around, we're here to help you. We have Sydney'

www.omafiets.com.au

 

[Chopper]

@indianajo - your original response was the kick in the teeth I needed. Your stats made sense and your reasoning behind mid drive made sense. Thank you for that explanation. I went to the bike store this morning, test rode the 3 I narrowed my original choice down to, took your advice into consideration, and rode away with one of these ...

eSPRESSO 300 SE EQ 504Wh - MERIDA BIKES

eSPRESSO 300 SE EQ 504Wh

www.merida-bikes.com

This was probably what I'm used to. The other 3 were fun but i could see myself using the throttle a bit too much. At 52 years old i want to exercise and need to exercise.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bosch, shimano, bafang may refuse to sell mid drives into the Australian market due to the stupid 250 w rule.

Bosch, Shimano, Giant/Yamaha, Fazua, Mahle, TQ, Specialized/Brose and many other mid-drive motors are all legal in Australia as these are 250 W nominal power. Bafang is illegal.

Please do not spread false information.

@Chopper please speak with a European, British or aware North American but not with ignorants.

We have several Aussies in this forum too, such as @Aushiker. I'm sure Andrew will be happy to give informed content to you.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

@indianajo - your original response was the kick in the teeth I needed. Your stats made sense and your reasoning behind mid drive made sense. Thank you for that explanation. I went to the bike store this morning, test rode the 3 I narrowed my original choice down to, took your advice into consideration, and rode away with one of these ...

eSPRESSO 300 SE EQ 504Wh - MERIDA BIKES

eSPRESSO 300 SE EQ 504Wh

www.merida-bikes.com

This was probably what I'm used to. The other 3 were fun but i could see myself using the throttle a bit too much. At 52 years old i want to exercise and need to exercise.

That's a nice looking & practical looking commuter bike from a reputable brand and with the back up of a local bike shop. All sounds good to me! Have fun with it!

 

[harryS]

The Expresso looks really good. A nice middrive bike. Sure beats that monstrous ET joke.

 

[indianajo]

One advantage of the shimano drive you bought, if you want to ride it without electric assist, you do NOT drag the motor with your feet. As you get stronger and on your way home with a cool one waiting, you can exert yourself a little, or to the max. May your bid for reliability and long life pay off.