Radcity 750w Motor and comparison

[DavidBer]

I am debating between the RadCity and E-glide bike. They are close to the same in cost so now I am trying to compare the components. One thing I noticed on the RadPower site is that they claim that the motor is a 750w Shengyi. I just looked at Shengyi's site and they do not have any 750w motors. Is this a lie from RadPower or some marketing game? Is this some sort of 'turbo/boost' mode? All I see are motors that hit 500w. I am also trying to learn more about the forks, as RadPower just says they are Suntour. They do not list what model.

Right now looking at the bikes, the major differences I see are:

• Weight - Eglide is about 15 pounds lighter.
• Stem - Rad has an adjustable stem to move the handlebars closer/farther.
• Accessories - Rad has an awesome selection of accessories that work. I.e. a front rack and baskets.
• Rims - Rad is 26 and E-Glide is 27.5
• Battery Cells - Panasonic vs. Samsung
• Rear Rack - built in on Rad - can be removed on E-Glide
• Seat Suspension - built in on E-Glide
• Building it - I am 90 minutes away from E-Glide, so I can get it assembled there
• Gearset - better on E-Glide
• Suspension lock out - switch on handlebar for E-Glide, have to get off the bike for the Rad.

Anyone compare these and chose one over the other? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[AHicks]

E-Glide's 175. shipping charge and what appears to be proprietary battery with less capacity would be the 2 bigger reasons I would stay with Rad.

Also, anything is possible I suppose, but I'm struggling to figure out how that bike could possibly be 15 lbs ligher than the Rad City. That's something I would have to see to believe.

 

[mrgold35]

Looks like the E-glide ST looks like a $2600 ebike on sale for $1600. The Radcity is a $1200 ebike selling for $1500. The E-glide has a lot standard features that would cost some $$ to add to the Radcity.

I would have to take a test ride of both to see which one felt the best. I already had two 2016 Radrovers and was familiar with the ride characteristics and maintenance requirements. I went with the Radcity Step-Thru just to keep it in the family.

One thing I like about my rovers/radcity is they are regular bikes with ebike components added. Very easy to work on or upgrade with off the self parts. One thing I hate about the my Rad ebikes is one size fits most selection. I'm 6'3" and my wife is 4'11" and we are both at the limits or outside the range for rad power bike owners. I'm too tall to ride my wife's Radcity Step-thru comfortably even with my 420mm Bodyfloat suspension seatpost added.

The 750w of power isn't needed in normal riding. We usually use PAS 2 or 3 (175w/350w) on a ride. The extra power+throttle comes in handy for urban situations like making a light, slight boost up a steep hill, max acceleration is needed at a stop or on the go, or needing to up the power because of an incline and/or stiff headwind.

 

[WilliamT]

The RadCity uses a direct drive hub similar to my Radwagon. I think the Rovers use a geared hub similar to the E-glide making hills a little easier to climb. With direct drive hubs, hills can be a pain without additional assist. The throttle really helps temporarily for that.

I don't like the e-Glide's use of a smaller battery . Those 11 ah batteries are too small and I'm glad Rad decided to upgrade to 14 ah on their newer models. For me, 14 seems to be the sweet spot. Just enough range for most situations and not being too heavy.

As for the weight, a DD hub is much heavier than the geared hub. The DD will be near silent but the geared a low volume buzz (but not enough to annoy).

According to EBR, the EGlide is 54 lbs vs 63 lbs for the RadCity. That's 9 lbs which is probably be from the DD hub, coil forks, and slightly larger battery.

 

[DavidBer]

E-Glide's 175. shipping charge and what appears to be proprietary battery with less capacity would be the 2 bigger reasons I would stay with Rad.

Also, anything is possible I suppose, but I'm struggling to figure out how that bike could possibly be 15 lbs ligher than the Rad City. That's something I would have to see to believe.

Thanks for the reply. Fortunately for me, it's just a 60 mile drive to get the bike from E-Glide. So I don't have to worry about the $175 fee.

I am not sure how the battery is proprietary. It uses Panasonic cells versus Samsung cells in the Rad. Considering I do not think either one of them actually make the batteries, aren't they just OEM'd batteries made to their specs?

E-Glide claims the bike weighs 51lbs. Rad claims their bike weighs 63lbs. So there is a 12 pound difference.

I am also a little concerned that the battery is a little weaker but that may not make that much of a difference in my life. This will be a near daily commuter. I am going 5 miles with a 300' elevation (according to ride with gps) each way. So being able to go further - meh.

Thanks again for the reply. I am going to visit Dave on Monday and either are going to walk out with a bike or order a Rad City.

 

[mrgold35]

You might be fine with the smaller battery on the E-glide. My Radrover geared hub has only a 11.6ah battery (no re-gen and I'm +270lbs). My daily work commute is 6 1/4 miles with an elevation change of 400-450 feet from my house to work. I can range around 22-27 miles per charge depending on PAS level, average mph, and/or wind on most days.

I ended up just purchasing another charger to leave at work to top off. It is mostly uphill when I ride home with a slight headwind on most days. We occasionally get winds +20 mph with gust 25-35 mph. I ended up running out of power on the way home because of those stiff headwinds (about 14-15 mile range in PAS 3 with +20 mph headwind +400 foot elevation gain). I now check the weather everyday and top off the battery at work. That charge will get me home and back to work in the morning on any windy day.

 

[AHicks]

So I maybe should have said the battery CASE is proprietary. The bigger point is, if you want a new battery, or a bigger battery, you have no choice but to go to E-Glide.

 

[DavidBer]

So I maybe should have said the battery CASE is proprietary. The bigger point is, if you want a new battery, or a bigger battery, you have no choice but to go to E-Glide.

Thanks for taking the time to educate someone who doesn't know that much I appreciate it.

My background in the nerd world had a lot to do with printing. Even though toner is somewhat generic, the cartridges are all proprietary, thus locking you into that maker's toner. I assumed this to be the same in the bike industry, but I think I may be wrong here

Are there third parties that sell batteries for Rad? Aren't I locked into them as well?

In the E-Glide section of the forums, there is a guy who mentioned that there are other bike makers that have batteries for the E-Glide as well as companies just doing batteries. So I assume their connection is not proprietary. Is Rad's?

Thanks again for helping out a newb!

 

[AHicks]

The connector on the end of the battery harness is proprietary on the Rads, but the rest of the battery, and the clip/bracket that secures it to the bike frame, is pretty easy to find when shopping for a new batt. Changing that proprietary Rad plug to match whtever you get in the way of a replacement battery is not that big a deal for most DIY'ers.

 

[tomjasz]

CASE is proprietary.

Are you certain? I haven’t seen it but I’ve found a few cases I thought were proprietary by searching Shan Shan and Reention sites. I’m curious. I love beating the overpriced market.

EDIT, IT IS AN AVAILABLE REENTION CASE.

 

[Feliz]

I own a Radrover but I'm not a big fan! I agree with Mike above that Rad seem to mess with their numbers, I think Bolton's videos confirm this. I have both a 2019 Radrover and Voltbike Yukon and was shocked by the lack of performance of my Radrover vs my Yukon. I switched the Rad controller to a 35 amp controller supplied with Bolton's upgrade kit and it really perked the Radrover up but I have to say after the upgrade it is still only equal the my STOCK Yukon. Both bikes are fat tired with 26" wheels and appear to have the same wide motor, I don't know the reason for the large difference in power, the Radrover is getting 1500 watts according to my display, I can only assume that the motor is a small one (as Bolton discovered) in comparison to the one in the Yukon.

 

[Feliz]

The connector on the end of the battery harness is proprietary on the Rads, but the rest of the battery, and the clip/bracket that secures it to the bike frame, is pretty easy to find when shopping for a new batt. Changing that proprietary Rad plug to match whtever you get in the way of a replacement battery is not that big a deal for most DIY'ers.

I will not by a bike (any more) that uses proprietary batteries. More manufacturers are using Reention batteries which are less money, easy to find and can use the same charger. No more boxes of old useless chargers. At least Rad use a 2.5mm connector along with their odd form factor.

 

[tomjasz]

Reention

Reention, primarily a case maker, is using different connections on newest cases. If you check the specs on these video connectors being used you’ll see our use is WAY out of spec. That said, I’ve never had a problem, but I limit my charge rates at 2-3A.

 

[tomjasz]

I own a Radrover but I'm not a big fan! I agree with Mike above that Rad seem to mess with their numbers, I think Bolton's videos confirm this. I have both a 2019 Radrover and Voltbike Yukon and was shocked by the lack of performance of my Radrover vs my Yukon. I switched the Rad controller to a 35 amp controller supplied with Bolton's upgrade kit and it really perked the Radrover up but I have to say after the upgrade it is still only equal the my STOCK Yukon. Both bikes are fat tired with 26" wheels and appear to have the same wide motor, I don't know the reason for the large difference in power, the Radrover is getting 1500 watts according to my display, I can only assume that the motor is a small one (as Bolton discovered) in comparison to the one in the Yukon.

A programmable controller could really perk things up.

 

[AHicks]

The Rad City is 500 watts, with higher amp rating to allow it to achieve a possible peak of 750 watts. The more important number is torque, which is only 40 nm. Rather weak in terms of power, especially for a so called '750'. By comparison a magnum Metro which has 500 watt motor has torque rating of 90nm. It's very disappointing to see a firm like Rad play this marketing crap, as it erodes the reputation of the entire industry. Once one firm like Rad does this, then others follow suit and it's a race into the gutter of ebike junk of low prices and lower quality. At least a few people like you aren't fooled. Since people buying rads are buying on line, Rad gets away with this crap, bc no one has a chance to compare the weak motor side by side to others in the industry who don't play these games. People buy them and don't know any better so the myth of the lie perpetuates. Their products wouldn't stand a chance at a dealer where people could compare theirs to more reputable brands.

Mike, your notes, like

"The Rad City is 500 watts, with higher amp rating to allow it to achieve a possible peak of 750 watts. The more important number is torque, which is only 40 nm. Rather weak in terms of power, especially for a so called '750'. By comparison a magnum Metro which has 500 watt motor has torque rating of 90nm."

If your intent is to be fully transparent and informative to those that don't know any better (as a "dealer" I would expect as much), you should include the fact you are talking about torque output of a direct drive motor, and comparing that to a gear drive.

Regarding Rad's dual 750/500 rating on their direct drive City, instead of shrouding the difference in/promoting a potential conspiracy theory, a much more informed educated guess would involve the fact there's very possibly a controller restriction limiting output of this motor to 500 watts when so rated.

You've made these comments repeatedly, and for the most part they are totally misleading/incorrect. If you want any respect as a "dealer", I would ask you to supply info that's a little more transparent. It would seem that you are so pro gear dive, you take any opportunity available to make direct drive appear inferior. Let's keep the playing field level, and promote e-bikes as a whole - with no agenda. -Al

 

[DavidBer]

@AHicks

Please, bear with my complete lack of knowledge here. Seriously, I do not know that much about this stuff, it is not my normal nerd type stuff!

What prompted me to write this post was RadCity's site. It's a nice site and they highlighted the brand motor they use and the wattage of it. So, out of curiosity, I went to the manufacturer of the motor's site. They have NO motors that are 750w.

How can they have a motor have more wattage than the manufacturer? Are they, and choose one here: Lying? Modifying the motor? Marketing speak?

I bring up marketing speak because I used to be into very fast motorcycles. Manufacturers would claim horsepower at the crank instead of at the rear wheel. It made it sound bigger than it was. They were not wrong, but it was pure marketing.

I do not know how you could get a motor to do more than the manufacturer states. Is it the amperage being higher that pushes it beyond the capability?

In regards to his post, perhaps it is me being naive, but I didn't read it the way you did. I didn't see any bashing of direct drive or gear driven. Again, it may be there, but as a newb, I didn't see it.

 

[harryS]

Mike, your notes,

"If your intent is to be fully transparent and informative to those that don't know any better (as a "dealer" I would expect as much), you should include the fact you are talking about torque output of a direct drive motor, and comparing that to a gear drive.

I don't see what's wrong here. It's a fair comparison. The geared motor is multiplying its torque mechanically, but it's real torque though and lets a smaller motor push you up the hill faster. The tradeoff is you get some gear noise, plus gears can wear out.

WilliamT wrote about his Radcity ... "With direct drive hubs, hills can be a pain without additional assist. The throttle really helps temporarily for that."

I believe you pulled the motor out of a RadCity because you were disastisfied with its power, and replaced it with a larger DD motor?.It seems to me like Mike's observations about the RadCity motor not really being 750W are valid.

How can they have a motor have more wattage than the manufacturer? Are they, and choose one here: Lying? Modifying the motor? Marketing speak?

See Mike's comments about RAD engaging in marketing crap. I don't know if the RA display shows watts, but if it does, it will likely display 750 watts if you crack the throttle on a hill. That will be a real number, computed by multiplying the battery voltage times the current draw, which is one definition for computing watts. So it's not a lie. However, buyers thnk they are getting a motor that is right at the limits for the max power rating of a Class I, II, or III ebike, Maybe, but it's got less torque than many 250W gear motor pedelecs.

 

[AHicks]

Fair 'nuff.

I have an issue with somebody stating : "The Rad City is 500 watts, with higher amp rating to allow it to achieve a possible peak of 750 watts. The more important number is torque, which is only 40 nm. Rather weak in terms of power, especially for a so called '750'. By comparison a magnum Metro which has 500 watt motor has torque rating of 90nm."

One 500/750w (depending on Canadian or US mfg) motor has 40 nm. vs. the other motor, which is rated at 500w, but produces 90 nm.

There's no mystery here. I find that statement, with no further explanation, incredibly misleading. If he had mentioned the fact that gears are in use to attain that much higher rating, I'd be good. I wouldn't have said a word. He's made this comment a few times now, so I thought it time to clear the air.

Harry, regarding my impression of the stock City motor and the reason I thought it was gutless, I did explain early on that a lot of my issue with the bike was due to the "soft start" controller programming. That will make any motor feel gutless, and was locked in to Rad's controller with no chance to set it to my own preferences. I also mentioned I had come off a 1000w bike previously, which may have lent some of the disappointment regarding the factory City motor - whatever they rate it at.

Noteworthy is the fact Bolton's kit opens up the much restricted programming locked in to Rad's factory controller. Most who have installed that kit comment on the much peppier feel of the bike. The controller I went with, almost a year prior to Bolton's kit became a reality, is nearly identical to the one he chose. Point being, he figured the same I did, that there was a lot of performance being lost due to Rad's controller setup, and because they keep that setup locked down/protected, somebody looking for more performance needs to replace it - as a good place to start ANY performance driven enhancements.

The reason I changed motors, to a 1500w unit, was economical (as it was part of a "kit", it was pretty inexpensive). It was also a convenient time to change it. If I'm going to basically be gutting the original bike's electrical/electronics, the added time trouble to do the motor swap was pretty inconsequential. -Al

 

[johnny333]

Watts and amps are all over the place on motors. There is not a good standard for motors now that I have found. Like car hp at the crank or wheels. It is the wheels that mater. I have a Radcity and like it very much. It goes more than fast enough on a bike for a 72 year old man. Just got a ticked for 93 in my Miata a minute it was close to 130 if speedometer is close to being right. It has headers and bigger exhaust and ecu remapping.
Johnny

 

[tomjasz]

Hmmm, but dealers trolling and fussing over direct ship sellers is somehow the moral high ground?