Rad law suit

[Gordon71]

Just ran across this. Tragic but not sure how one can sue an Ebike company over plainly misusing it's product. At least I'm assuming that 11 year olds can't legally ride an ebike in CA.

'Team Molly' Parents Sue E-Bike Company Over Daughter's Death

The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful-death lawsuit Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes. In the suit, Kaye and Jonathan Steinsapir, the parents of Molly Steinsapir, who died last year at age 12, claim that flaws in the bike’s design made...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Gordon71]

Sounds to me that a charge of recklessly endangering the welfare of a child against the parents would be appropriate.

 

[m@Robertson]

... At least I'm assuming that 11 year olds can't legally ride an ebike in CA.

There is no restriction in California vis-a-vis rider age unless the ebike is Class 3 (minimum age is 16 in that case), which the Rad bike isn't.

Why charge the parents? The kids did a dumb thing (tried to zoom down a steep hill). It happens.

 

[username00101]

Shitty helmet. At least the parents are suing the helmet company correctly, but that should actually be their main lawsuit. Not the bike company.

I don't understand how someone can get a TBI with a properly fitted helmet.

This is why we can't have nice things. Now all the e-bike companies are going to put big warning labels on top that say NO ONE UNDER 18 proof of ID is required to make purchase.

 

[JES2020]

Just ran across this. Tragic but not sure how one can sue an Ebike company over plainly misusing it's product. At least I'm assuming that 11 year olds can't legally ride an ebike in CA.

'Team Molly' Parents Sue E-Bike Company Over Daughter's Death

The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful-death lawsuit Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes. In the suit, Kaye and Jonathan Steinsapir, the parents of Molly Steinsapir, who died last year at age 12, claim that flaws in the bike’s design made...

www.yahoo.com

Rad runners are one of the largest makers of ebikes which = deep pockets which = lawsuits.

What is this about?:
From the yahoo article.
"Rad Runner’s “disc brakes in conjunction with a quick-release mechanism for detaching the front wheel” is “a known safety hazard” in the bike industry"

 

[JES2020]

I don't understand how someone can get a TBI with a properly fitted helmet.

Actually there are no helmets that can prevent TBI.
The brain moves INSIDE the skull which causes TBI.
A helmet would have to have inertial dampeners. You know like in Star Trek.

 

[Gordon71]

There is no restriction in California vis-a-vis rider age unless the ebike is Class 3 (minimum age is 16 in that case), which the Rad bike isn't.

Why charge the parents? The kids did a dumb thing (tried to zoom down a steep hill). It happens.

Did not know that CA doesn't have an age restriction (which should be a no brainer) for Ebike use especially when the user manual states rider should be 18 or older.

 

[antboy]

It's a tragic situation, but the details in the article point toward a death by misadventure.

Two 11 year olds double ride on a bike that isn't theirs, and don't know what they're doing when riding down a hill. Nothing in there provides solid evidence that the bike or the helmet malfunctioned.

 

[m@Robertson]

especially when the user manual states rider should be 18 or older.

I would think thats more about Rad's legal department trying to insulate them against lawsuits... but in this case it may have helped attract one. I personally would have no issues with minors riding ebikes. I rode everywhere as a kid including miles down El Camino Real in the Bay Area to/from a job. And up/down the Coastal Range at some pretty extreme speeds on the weekends. I even crashed once on the downhill. My parents never even thought about suing anyone. I crashed the bike. The bike didn't crash me.

QR on a fork with a disk brake is USUALLY prevented from being an issue at high speed with putting the fork dropouts angled forward. I'd bet money the Chinese didn't bother with that and used old-school vertical dropouts. Which is fine so long as you keep enough tension on the QR bolt. But you can't control whether that happens when consumers who don't pay attention to basic maintenance are factored in.

Road bikes heading towards using through-axles, but why? - CyclingTips

The recent introduction of road disc bikes is ushering in a variety of new technologies and “standards” that buyers must come to terms with. One of the more controversial refinements involves through-axle systems that complicate wheel changes and make things like fork-mounted roof racks and...

cyclingtips.com

 

[Gordon71]

I would think thats more about Rad's legal department trying to insulate them against lawsuits... but in this case it may have helped attract one. I personally would have no issues with minors riding ebikes. I rode everywhere as a kid including miles down El Camino Real in the Bay Area to/from a job. And up/down the Coastal Range at some pretty extreme speeds on the weekends. I even crashed once on the downhill. My parents never even thought about suing anyone. I crashed the bike. The bike didn't crash me.

How do you think it attracted one? I would think it would make the lawsuit null and void since the parties involved misused their product.

 

[m@Robertson]

from that linked article above this neatly encapsulates the problem and the solution, which I am certain Rad and their Chinese manufacturers ignored as most others do.

 

[m@Robertson]

How do you think it attracted one? I would think it would make the lawsuit null and void since the parties involved misused their product.

Not at all. Its already been pointed out in the article that the 18+ warning was on like Page 47 of 54. So the lawyer will make that a gotcha and say the recommendation was buried and hence there is a product liability issue. Whereas if they had left that warning completely out of the manual, such grounds would not exist. The proper counter to this - which goes against the marketing needs of the company - would be to put that restriction on the front page of the manual. At that point the plaintiff would argue that it should be plastered all over the web site. So putting an age limit in at all when there is no legal requirement to do so attracts a lawsuit like this.

The product design - the fork dropouts - is I think where the real issue lies, plus the Rad Runner's core utility as a passenger carrier. If the passenger function is found to be contributory it may be the end for that bike.

 

[antboy]

from that linked article above this neatly encapsulates the problem and the solution, which I am certain Rad and their Chinese manufacturers ignored as most others do.

I'm not sure this is really an issue with the Rad Runner. All their models appear to be similar to the original...

 

[JRA]

You make bikes like the RadRunner that look more like kid bikes than adult bikes then kids will ride them. The little squirlly fat wheels and no doubt ill adjusted brakes due to it being an online sales bike that probably never got adjusted properly upon delivery and accidents will happen. I feel sorry for their loss but I think they are setting themselves up for another one trying to sue.

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm not sure this is really an issue with the Rad Runner. All their models appear to be similar to the original...

Those look like standard-issue vertical dropouts. As such, vulnerable as the lawsuit describes. Rad is not alone in this. Their Chinese parts suppliers are pretty much universal in ignoring the problem across the industry.

 

[m@Robertson]

The little squirlly fat wheels and no doubt ill adjusted brakes due to it being an online sales bike that probably never got adjusted properly upon delivery and accidents will happen. I feel sorry for their loss but I think they are setting themselves up for another one trying to sue.

Don't forget the likelihood that nobody did a pre-flight or ANY inspection on whether the QR itself was properly tight. From the sound of it the accident was caused by the wheel popping out under strong braking.

Both of the parents are lawyers so for them there likely is zero cost other than filing fees. So the worst case for Rad as you can expect them to hound the company to the ends of the Earth.

 

[Alaskan]

from Rad's website

What Is An Ebike?

Electric bikes feature a motor, one that can give you either a gentle boost or enough power to conquer almost any hill. Learn more about electric bikes here.

www.radpowerbikes.com

Halfway down the page

How old do I have to be to ride an ebike?​

"You must be 16 or older to operate a Rad Power Bikes ebike. Children under the age of 16 may lack the necessary judgment and skill to safely operate the ebike. A parent or legal guardian should always decide whether a child should operate or ride on an electric bike or any other vehicle.

Some localities may require ebike riders to be older than 16, so know and obey local regulations regarding rider age and other qualification."

I think this comes under the legal theory of attractive nuisance, like having a swimming pool. It is the owner's responsibility to keep children safe if they have things that attract children but can be dangerous to them. It does not appear that the other kid's parents are even named in the lawsuit. I guess Rad has deeper pockets, regardless of lesser responsibility.

 

[JRA]

Maybe I am seeing it wrong but looks like a sloping dropout to me?

I also missed where it said that the front wheel came off vis a vis out of the dropouts to begin with? The way I read it was that they experienced a speed wobble effect that I would attribute to the small wheels and 11yr old girl arms on the handlebars compounded by the weight the other girl on the back going downhill and not being able to brake properly?

 

[dodgeman]

They will probably get some money out of them. The girl who died didn’t even own the bike, her parents didn’t buy it either. It was a friends sisters bike. They are the ones who should be sued but probably don’t have any money. Both parents are lawyers too.

 

[m@Robertson]

Maybe I am seeing it wrong but looks like a sloping dropout to me?

We'd have to see it with the wheel off but it looks like a 'vertical' dropout to me, which can be slightly sloped forward vs. the very pronounced slope that lawyer-proofs a bike against this not-really-common issue. I just checked the Rad Rover fork replacement video and its definitely a garden variety vertical. I personally don't think its much to worry about but on the other hand its clearly an issue that exists so probably should be addressed at the manufacturing level.

I also missed where it said that the front wheel came off vis a vis out of the dropouts to begin with? The way I read it was that they experienced a speed wobble effect that I would attribute to the small wheels and 11yr old girl arms on the handlebars compounded by the weight the other girl on the back going downhill and not being able to brake properly?

They are citing that as a product liability issue in the lawsuit, so it stands to reason. Also when a bike experiences speed wobble (aka 'death wobble') the wheel popping out of the dropouts is a very likely outcome. Death wobble *typically* comes from too much weight at one end of the bike. Cargo bike riders have to deal with it disproportionately as we ride longtails and frontloaders that are susceptible to the effect. On my Bullitt I had to do a number of things (steering dampener and side panels to stiffen the frame, eventually replaced the dampener with a Viscoset) to counteract a really horrific wobble that occurred at about 20 mph+. My Big Fat Dummy had a gentle version at higher speeds until it went away when I replaced the Bluto fork with a Wren. I helped address the issue on the Bullitt before the added hardware by keeping the cargo load in the back of the forward box. On the BFD the early solution was to load cargo to the front of the bags and move backward, with the heavier stuff staying forward.

Once you get a wobble, if you can't slow the bike dramatically, and quickly, you are in deep doo doo. Wobble hard for more than a few seconds and I can easily see that wheel popping out. Especially on a consumer bike of questionable maintenance (which goes back to product liability... why weren't bolts used on that fork after product testing is what the opposing attorneys will argue).