R1U Ltd problem's, verified solutions and aftermarket accessories that work ... Fast n' Furious

Yes. Apartment living has drawbacks and my next beast is crouched and growling in the corner. Waiting a year for the titanium frame I built the Lm'td - test-bedding the throttle; electronic, wireless shifting; Magura brakes and rotors; saddle; fasteners; suspension; bars; grips - you name it.
Have to find a good home for the Lm'td unleashed.
View attachment 137884
Here's my custom, WattWagon titanium CrossTour fattie.
The battery was damaged during shipping and a new one's on the way. I've changed some things, but there you see it until I get rolling and take some real pics.
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That's awesome. You trouble-shot and replaced the controller and motor cable to the motor stator, so now you do it.
Hell yes, you're becoming 'an experienced ebike mechanic', a great trade-off, experience of real worth.
I sure know the feeling of down time.
We should both be up about next week.

Tally ho !!!

Fn'F
The new bike looks great, kinda retro and I imagine a big step-up from the LMT'D.
This has certainly been a learning experience, mainly 'cause the LMTD frame has so much wiring crammed inside. Fairly simple when most of the wires are color-coded, just physically frustrating when my fingers don't fit inside the workspace. I know you know all about it. The new stator motor's not here yet so I'm not counting my chickens, but so far so good.
As luck would have it, in the meantime my normal riding partner took a bad fall, broken collar bone and serious faceplant. He's 78 so everybody expected him to quit riding. Instead he bought a new helmet and a set of downhill mtn bike armor, still charging the hills behind Santa Barbara. I'm a year younger so pretty sure I can keep up with him this winter. ;-)
 
My 2 LTD’s just arrived. Boxes in decent shape, no glaring damage. Big exhale. Will assemble this weekend. And the weeks ahead. A host of accessories ordered - Nordlock washers, titanium axle nuts, Ursus Jumbo kickstands, Ergon grips, GUB phone holders, Axiom Streamliner rear rack, Kryptonite Evolution locks, a nice lock holder strap by YNOT, Hanfy mirrors, Tourbon panniers, Big Buck rear fenders, VP-Vice pedals…. Thank you to all those posting for the inspiration, especially Mr. Fast n’ Furious. I will pay it forward with pics and links once gathered and assembled.
BUT, my question is brake related. I see the LTD has came with Tektro Orion HD-M745 4-piston, the HD-350 series, and the current HD-M285 brakes. Curious which is “best”? Are they interchangeable? Thinking of upgrading but I know very little about how to approach. Any tips or suggestions? Or should I leave well enough alone? I am running out of things to obsess over…
 
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Enjoy the new bikes! I've got about 750 miles on mine, and have been very happy with the stock brakes; quiet, smooth and very strong even at 25+ mph. Ride on....
 
And I see they are dropping the LTD's price for Black Friday starting October 18th. Great deal.

IMG_0069.png
 
My 2 LTD’s just arrived. Boxes in decent shape, no glaring damage. Big exhale. Will assemble this weekend. And the weeks ahead. A host of accessories ordered - Nordlock washers, titanium axle nuts, Ursus Jumbo kickstands, Ergon grips, GUB phone holders, Axiom Streamliner rear rack, Kryptonite Evolution locks, a nice lock holder strap by YNOT, Hanfy mirrors, Tourbon panniers, Big Buck rear fenders, VP-Vice pedals…. Thank you to all those posting for the inspiration, especially Mr. Fast n’ Furious. I will pay it forward with pics and links once gathered and assembled.
BUT, my question is brake related. I see the LTD has came with Tektro Orion HD-350 brakes. Curious which is “best”? Are they interchangeable? Thinking of upgrading but I know very little about how to approach. Any tips or suggestions? Or should I leave well enough alone? I am running out of things to obsess over…
You are a lucky man. My new addition arrived with the battery loose in the box, being endoed by UPS. It's ruined and so is the throttle it smashed. I'm still happy as a clam though. lol. Mission accomplished. Now to patch up the wounded.
The Lm'td is a great platform, wide open for upgrades to high levels. To put it differently: It's not putting lipstick on a pig.
It starts sparse. Many parts 'entry level' - but at a grade of entry that can be upgraded.
The choice was buying a $6k Bike - or the Lm'td, and building as I went.
I didn't know enough to judge that '$6k Bike' was worth it, so I thought, 'free education? Master a skill? I'm justified running stuff - hard?
I'm aboard !!!'
I feel good passing down work results. So many errors others need not make.
You've really covered the list. An early arriver. Nordlocks and the Ursus. Right where I'd start.
Tip: Using the Ursus it's important your fork is tight enough that when stand is down the front end doesn't swing so freely.
It's also another reason not to have a front rack. Wrenching those wires (entering under the battery housing) around will cause trouble.
I'm big fan for investing in a KINEKT Seat Post. Such parts being costly, require heirloom quality and real 'bang for the buck' to get my thumbs up. Check that box off. Their product, support and service is beyond excellent.
Takes a bit of study (maybe $30 in springs/ adjuster bolt) to dial in, and you don't even notice it ... but remove after becoming accustomed and the difference is shocking. This thing is a ten.
Unlike FS Bikes that modulate shock by bending at the frame's center, the KINEKT adds 1.38" of vertical center travel to a Hardtail.
As deep as I went w/ Tektros was the pads. Go Red. Work great. Green not so hot. Never had a need to disassemble.
I changed for another reason, replacing the front with a Magura MT5e. Now, touch front brake, power goes off. Spent a bit more and got the better 203mm rotors, but 'power off' when I hit front brake is a safety feature I can't do without.
Can't wait for photos.

Fn'F
 
The new bike looks great, kinda retro and I imagine a big step-up from the LMT'D.
This has certainly been a learning experience, mainly 'cause the LMTD frame has so much wiring crammed inside. Fairly simple when most of the wires are color-coded, just physically frustrating when my fingers don't fit inside the workspace. I know you know all about it. The new stator motor's not here yet so I'm not counting my chickens, but so far so good.
As luck would have it, in the meantime my normal riding partner took a bad fall, broken collar bone and serious faceplant. He's 78 so everybody expected him to quit riding. Instead he bought a new helmet and a set of downhill mtn bike armor, still charging the hills behind Santa Barbara. I'm a year younger so pretty sure I can keep up with him this winter. ;-)
Empathy and respect for your partner. You guys keep my 70 feeling young. I here ya about quitting.
You're living proof that 'a body in motion', etc. ... and I still have to catch you !!!
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Stuff I found:
After unplugging the RST's from the controller. To reinstall: smoothly tape the display and throttle RST connectors to a coat hanger.
Then 'fish' the C-hang'er's end through the 'out' hole. Now, inserting the controller, carefully pull the wires - same as electricians pull wire, 'cept they're 'Hercules Grade' pros and this take a bit more 'gentle touch'. Oh, and using your third hand, carefully pack all the excess wires or your hair will burst into flame the controller won't fit and it's a nightmare to reassemble. My hands hurt for two weeks, that damn lock. lol.
I was ignorant that the 'bottom screw (bolt) first' is the key.
Luckily, you only have the 3-wire throttle and 5-wire Display. You can 'stagger' (taping) the plugs on the hanger and both wire sets will have several inches length beyond the frame hole.
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I could go into boring detail that might erupt into spontaneous debate over trivia - not - but if you replace you solder in this 22awg w/ installed RST, a few inches from throttle's terminus, you'll feel notable improvements in throttle power and response.
The stock throttle wires are 'throttling' the throttle. The longer they are, the more they increase resistance.
Oh, hell with it. I will add some detail. Solder merely acts as a medium for wires to contact and conduct, a glue of sorts.
Being much less than copper's conductivity, if you crush a soldered joint you'll vastly up the resistance of the flow of current, but the increase (yes there is one) in resistance in a properly soldered wire connection is a few milliohms - whereas, our resistance going from the controllers 24awg wires into 28awg stock throttle wires is huge ... and, you have an input/ output signal, so reduced going and coming it's double.
You'll largely eliminate that by using a quality connector with 22awg wire. Regardless the few inches of 28awg, it made a difference I could feel.
So yeah, 'Length Matters'.
Another must have item we all need is good lookin', non-labor intensive Harness Sheathing.
I'm using this:
f6-woven.jpg
F6 Woven Self Closing Wrap.
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My new bike's a titanium frame mid-drive. You can see a video here: WattWagons Information
A small shop, from builders creating custom bikes. Worldwide trade madness is killing them and I've no idea how the finagled a frame for me, just that it's a real solid. I'd ordered a Kindernay IGH and Gates Belt drive but that's not, and this cassette was available.
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here's the specs.
Motor: Bafang M620 52V X1 2300W - I run 750watts for the street.
Battery: Jumbo Shark 52V 16ah
Throttle: Domino Twist Grip 0-5K Ohm Throttle, Standard Firmware Profile
Drivetrain: Shimano XT 11-speed, 46T Front Chainring, 11-40 Rear Cassette
Shifter: Wireless, Archer D1x
Rims: SunRingle Mulefut 80 26” w/ Vee Mission Command 26x4.0" Tires
Front Suspension: Manitou Mastodon Pro
Brakes: Magua MT7e . Rotors: Magura MDR P 220mm (F), 203mm (R)
Handlebar: Jones Butted H-Bars
Stem: Custom Titanium 80mm
Grips: Domino Gum rubber
Kinekt 31.6 Suspension Post. Brooks B17 Saddle. Crank Bros Stamp 1's. Axiom Rear Rack. SKS Fat Fenders
I've slimmed the build down. Omitted lighting. Installed alloy bars. It's lighter than they talk about, notably lighter without the 10lb battery than my Lm'td. I'd say 58 - 62lbs w/ battery.
-
I'm expecting having real fun!
It's 'space-age retro' theme. lol

Ride on !!!

Fn'F
 
Empathy and respect for your partner. You guys keep my 70 feeling young. I here ya about quitting.
You're living proof that 'a body in motion', etc. ... and I still have to catch you !!!
-
Stuff I found:
After unplugging the RST's from the controller. To reinstall: smoothly tape the display and throttle RST connectors to a coat hanger.
Then 'fish' the C-hang'er's end through the 'out' hole. Now, inserting the controller, carefully pull the wires - same as electricians pull wire, 'cept they're 'Hercules Grade' pros and this take a bit more 'gentle touch'. Oh, and using your third hand, carefully pack all the excess wires or your hair will burst into flame the controller won't fit and it's a nightmare to reassemble. My hands hurt for two weeks, that damn lock. lol.
I was ignorant that the 'bottom screw (bolt) first' is the key.
Luckily, you only have the 3-wire throttle and 5-wire Display. You can 'stagger' (taping) the plugs on the hanger and both wire sets will have several inches length beyond the frame hole.
-
I could go into boring detail that might erupt into spontaneous debate over trivia - not - but if you replace you solder in this 22awg w/ installed RST, a few inches from throttle's terminus, you'll feel notable improvements in throttle power and response.
The stock throttle wires are 'throttling' the throttle. The longer they are, the more they increase resistance.
Oh, hell with it. I will add some detail. Solder merely acts as a medium for wires to contact and conduct, a glue of sorts.
Being much less than copper's conductivity, if you crush a soldered joint you'll vastly up the resistance of the flow of current, but the increase (yes there is one) in resistance in a properly soldered wire connection is a few milliohms - whereas, our resistance going from the controllers 24awg wires into 28awg stock throttle wires is huge ... and, you have an input/ output signal, so reduced going and coming it's double.
You'll largely eliminate that by using a quality connector with 22awg wire. Regardless the few inches of 28awg, it made a difference I could feel.
So yeah, 'Length Matters'.
Another must have item we all need is good lookin', non-labor intensive Harness Sheathing.
I'm using this: View attachment 137959 F6 Woven Self Closing Wrap.
-
My new bike's a titanium frame mid-drive. You can see a video here: WattWagons Information
A small shop, from builders creating custom bikes. Worldwide trade madness is killing them and I've no idea how the finagled a frame for me, just that it's a real solid. I'd ordered a Kindernay IGH and Gates Belt drive but that's not, and this cassette was available.
-
here's the specs.
Motor: Bafang M620 52V X1 2300W - I run 750watts for the street.
Battery: Jumbo Shark 52V 16ah
Throttle: Domino Twist Grip 0-5K Ohm Throttle, Standard Firmware Profile
Drivetrain: Shimano XT 11-speed, 46T Front Chainring, 11-40 Rear Cassette
Shifter: Wireless, Archer D1x
Rims: SunRingle Mulefut 80 26” w/ Vee Mission Command 26x4.0" Tires
Front Suspension: Manitou Mastodon Pro
Brakes: Magua MT7e . Rotors: Magura MDR P 220mm (F), 203mm (R)
Handlebar: Jones Butted H-Bars
Stem: Custom Titanium 80mm
Grips: Domino Gum rubber
Kinekt 31.6 Suspension Post. Brooks B17 Saddle. Crank Bros Stamp 1's. Axiom Rear Rack. SKS Fat Fenders
I've slimmed the build down. Omitted lighting. Installed alloy bars. It's lighter than they talk about, notably lighter without the 10lb battery than my Lm'td. I'd say 58 - 62lbs w/ battery.
-
I'm expecting having real fun!
It's 'space-age retro' theme. lol

Ride on !!!

Fn'F
What a great bike! You'll have lot's of fun on that one for sure.
My new stator motor is due this coming week so I removed the rear wheel and will take the motor apart as soon as I can figure out a safe way to remove the stator cover screws, which are apparently installed with LockTite and a bitch to remove w/o stripping the heads. Also had trouble loosening the torque arm on the cable side, as it abuts the derailleur mounting-bolt very tightly. Now that the wheel is off, I think I may dremel the edge of the TA so that it fits w/o rubbing that bolt. If anyone has an opinion on the best way to remove frozen phillips without stripping them, I'm all ears. Right now they're soaking-in some WD40. I have an impact driver but hope I don't have to resort to it.
 
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The first thing you need is real estate on your bars. The Jones H-Bar SG Loop provided that and better geometry, but I still found the cockpit cramped, even with my saddle as far back and as high as possible.
I added an 80mm bar stem, centering the the grips position on the axis of the fork tube by replacing the stock 45mm clamp. It depends on how you ride, more upright or less so; your height and the length of your legs.
Hi Mr. Fast n’ Furious. You’re right about the real estate issue. I want two mirrors, a bell, phone holder, and there is precious little 22.2mm space. I was looking at the Jones H-bars and the Surly Moloko. Neither have much rise. The Surly is a bit on the heavy side, but I figure I have about 30lbs to lose myself, so the gear really isn’t the issue. Would an adjustable stem make sense? Never had one. Any issue with cable length swapping the bars?
 
Okay. I checked my bolts and see what you mean. Mine were screwed in with a torque driver. The heads are all slightly damaged.
I used to remove and rebuild transmissions from washing machines. Electrolysis, corrosion from dissimilar metals and detergent medium as conductor fused the fasteners. If a bolt shears, all you can do is tap them out.
You still may have to use the impact driver. Be certain to use a perfect bit.
I hate Phillips heads.
Doubtful you'll go back in there, but best to replace w/ Torx head bolts Like These. That's 100,000lb tensile strength.
286 Stainless is 140k, but too much $$$ and you don't need that high.
The painted steel ones on the MXUS are under 60k and any old tool-steel bit will eat them ... plus they are somewhat damaged by the torque driver that installed them. How you gonna torque them back on? Easy w/ Torx heads. US made cost more but is authentic steel.
Positive vibes. If you turned bike upside down to remove, brakes may not work for a day. Huh? Yep.
Happened to me so I bought a bleeding kit. Took 2 days to get here, went to bleed and they're fine again. lol

Best of skill !!!
 
Hi Mr. Fast n’ Furious. You’re right about the real estate issue. I want two mirrors, a bell, phone holder, and there is precious little 22.2mm space. I was looking at the Jones H-bars and the Surly Moloko. Neither have much rise. The Surly is a bit on the heavy side, but I figure I have about 30lbs to lose myself, so the gear really isn’t the issue. Would an adjustable stem make sense? Never had one. Any issue with cable length swapping the bars?
The Jones' weigh less, yes. I have the Surlys on the Lm'td at the moment, to test.
I also have a new pair of the 2.5 rise Butted H-Bars,
But there's more to the story. Both the Surly (Salsa Trail, 60mm) and the Jones (Titanium, 80mm) require longer bar clamps to maintain correct steering geometry.
The stock (45mm) clamp places your grip abaft the fork head. Much too responsive with the Jones'. Dangerous.
If you like collecting titanium parts, quality Chinese ti clamps, like these titanium bar clamp cost (about $65), the same as the Salsa.
Real-estate on the Jones' is huge. Best fit I've found for ebikes.
Even that Shimano shifter fits decent with many twist throttles. Accessories really fit well. Tons of straight 22.2mm for clamping anything.
Not enough use on the Surly's to say yet.
I hear the KINEKT Suspension Stems are nice, but I like a solid feel.
Adjustable stems would be interesting to ascertain the degree you like - a big factor in your seating position - relative to your bar's + or - rise.
Once I know that, I buy a solid stem with my preferred rise.

Fn'F
 
Okay. I checked my bolts and see what you mean. Mine were screwed in with a torque driver. The heads are all slightly damaged.
I used to remove and rebuild transmissions from washing machines. Electrolysis, corrosion from dissimilar metals and detergent medium as conductor fused the fasteners. If a bolt shears, all you can do is tap them out.
You still may have to use the impact driver. Be certain to use a perfect bit.
I hate Phillips heads.
Doubtful you'll go back in there, but best to replace w/ Torx head bolts Like These. That's 100,000lb tensile strength.
286 Stainless is 140k, but too much $$$ and you don't need that high.
The painted steel ones on the MXUS are under 60k and any old tool-steel bit will eat them ... plus they are somewhat damaged by the torque driver that installed them. How you gonna torque them back on? Easy w/ Torx heads. US made cost more but is authentic steel.
Positive vibes. If you turned bike upside down to remove, brakes may not work for a day. Huh? Yep.
Happened to me so I bought a bleeding kit. Took 2 days to get here, went to bleed and they're fine again. lol

Best of skill !!!
It turns out it's not that difficult to remove the stator screws, just takes more force than I was using. (Local gas station mechanic couldn't get 'em loose by hand either, and cautioned me against trying an impact driver, said it would "almost certainly" strip the heads.) In the end, I got so frustrated I tried my old-school manual impact driver with a ball pein hammer, and voila! 3 good taps and each screw was free and the heads appear intact, although I may go with the torx. I have a small torque wrench that should work although I will add a drop of red Loctite as well. I saw a video that says the brakes should not need bleeding as long as I don't squeeze the levers while it's upside down. As you noted, once the bike is upright, the air moves back up into the reservoir where it belongs. Motor arrives today so things are looking up.
 
It turns out it's not that difficult to remove the stator screws, just takes more force than I was using. (Local gas station mechanic couldn't get 'em loose by hand either, and cautioned me against trying an impact driver, said it would "almost certainly" strip the heads.) In the end, I got so frustrated I tried my old-school manual impact driver with a ball pein hammer, and voila! 3 good taps and each screw was free and the heads appear intact, although I may go with the torx. I have a small torque wrench that should work although I will add a drop of red Loctite as well. I saw a video that says the brakes should not need bleeding as long as I don't squeeze the levers while it's upside down. As you noted, once the bike is upright, the air moves back up into the reservoir where it belongs. Motor arrives today so things are looking up.
Perhaps I inadvertently squeezed the handle.
My new battery and throttle arrived. New battery is also damaged. Same place.
Charged w/ ext cord, outside in open area, w/ fire extinguisher handy. Didn't get hot. Now to see if it will hold charge, but today is out. Too busy, but prelim shows throttle works great.
My friend ordered a 3 x 6" replica CA License plate - chrome yellow on black: 1SICBYK - and it certainly is.
I'm building of/on latching pushbutton switches into the bar ends, slightly inset so no accidental off/on. One for turning throttle off/on. The other not yet designated. The Domino's flexible rubber grips make that possible. Wires exit through small hole drilled in bars. 100% hidden and I'm throttle off w/ 750watt setting (eco mode). I'll be Class II or Class III with the touch of a button.
Law does not say a bike may not have the capability to be changed to run in two separate Classes (II and III).
Standard throttle firmware only supplies throttle-power up tp 20mph (Class II), then the bike transforms into Class III - up to 28mph. So, throttle adds nothing to pedaling above 20mph. But, when you go down to below 20mph, bike transitions right back to Class II "20mph throttle limit".
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I'm trying to keep an eye on the legislative agenda and see what reps are involved, drop them a line and request to be in the loop regarding any 'e-bike legislation' tabled.
I remind all readers of that, if we don't speak up, it'll be like around 1900 - when laws were being passed to stop automobiles because they were scaring the horses.
Here's the full digest that includes the 'intent' section: Assembly Bill 1096 Final Draft
The final draft say's in part "the bill would also require persons operating, or riding upon, a class 3 electric bicycle to wear a helmet, as specified. The bill would prohibit the operation of a class 3 electric bicycle on specified paths, lanes, or trails, unless that operation is authorized by a local ordinance. The bill would also authorize a local authority or governing body to prohibit, by ordinance, the operation of class 1 or class 2 electric bicycles on specified paths or trails. The bill would prohibit a person from tampering with or modifying an electric bicycle to change
its speed capability, unless he or she appropriately replaces the classification label.
..."
Some of this never made it into the code. No need to encode the apparent - or consumer protection laws - into VC legislation. Also Federal law already covers some aspects.

Here's the Law as passed.
VEHICLE CODE - VEH DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681] ( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
312.5.
(a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.
Note: This is contrary to other enacted legislation that says electric assist can be up to, but not exceed 1000watts - where it should be.

(1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(2) A “class 2 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.

(b) A person riding an electric bicycle, as defined in this section, is subject to Article 4 (commencing with Section 21200) of Chapter 1 of Division 11.

(c) On and after January 1, 2017, manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed, in a prominent location, to each electric bicycle. The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle, and shall be printed in Arial font in at least 9-point type.

Ride on.
 
Perhaps I inadvertently squeezed the handle.
My new battery and throttle arrived. New battery is also damaged. Same place.
Charged w/ ext cord, outside in open area, w/ fire extinguisher handy. Didn't get hot. Now to see if it will hold charge, but today is out. Too busy, but prelim shows throttle works great.
My friend ordered a 3 x 6" replica CA License plate - chrome yellow on black: 1SICBYK - and it certainly is.
I'm building of/on latching pushbutton switches into the bar ends, slightly inset so no accidental off/on. One for turning throttle off/on. The other not yet designated. The Domino's flexible rubber grips make that possible. Wires exit through small hole drilled in bars. 100% hidden and I'm throttle off w/ 750watt setting (eco mode). I'll be Class II or Class III with the touch of a button.
Law does not say a bike may not have the capability to be changed to run in two separate Classes (II and III).
Standard throttle firmware only supplies throttle-power up tp 20mph (Class II), then the bike transforms into Class III - up to 28mph. So, throttle adds nothing to pedaling above 20mph. But, when you go down to below 20mph, bike transitions right back to Class II "20mph throttle limit".
-
I'm trying to keep an eye on the legislative agenda and see what reps are involved, drop them a line and request to be in the loop regarding any 'e-bike legislation' tabled.
I remind all readers of that, if we don't speak up, it'll be like around 1900 - when laws were being passed to stop automobiles because they were scaring the horses.
Here's the full digest that includes the 'intent' section: Assembly Bill 1096 Final Draft
The final draft say's in part "the bill would also require persons operating, or riding upon, a class 3 electric bicycle to wear a helmet, as specified. The bill would prohibit the operation of a class 3 electric bicycle on specified paths, lanes, or trails, unless that operation is authorized by a local ordinance. The bill would also authorize a local authority or governing body to prohibit, by ordinance, the operation of class 1 or class 2 electric bicycles on specified paths or trails. The bill would prohibit a person from tampering with or modifying an electric bicycle to change
its speed capability, unless he or she appropriately replaces the classification label.
..."
Some of this never made it into the code. No need to encode the apparent - or consumer protection laws - into VC legislation. Also Federal law already covers some aspects.

Here's the Law as passed.
VEHICLE CODE - VEH DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681] ( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
312.5.
(a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.
Note: This is contrary to other enacted legislation that says electric assist can be up to, but not exceed 1000watts - where it should be.

(1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(2) A “class 2 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.

(b) A person riding an electric bicycle, as defined in this section, is subject to Article 4 (commencing with Section 21200) of Chapter 1 of Division 11.

(c) On and after January 1, 2017, manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed, in a prominent location, to each electric bicycle. The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle, and shall be printed in Arial font in at least 9-point type.

Ride on.
Bummer about the shipping damage. I guess I was lucky having only a bent front rim and rotor. My friends with LBS bikes say they feel sorry for my online bike troubles but I can tell they feel vindicated riding their ho-hum 72 lb cruisers that are “so reliable”. Ha!

Thanks for posting the legal updates. I guess we all knew the regulations would begin eventually. It’ll be interesting to see when/if we see any local enforcement beyond blatant stop sign violations and such.

New motor arrived today. Bike is running like a top (knock wood). R1U took care of me and I'm a happy camper. I wish I could report that I mastered the repair process on my own, but their webpages are very good at walking one through it.
 
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How Error 24 was fixed on my 2022 LMT'D:

At about 775 miles my LMT’D displayed an Error #24 message (Internal Hall Sensor fault) and quit.
#24 can also indicate heat damage to wiring, a short-circuit, abraded wiring or just a loose connector.
I hope this helps others that may run into the same problem. Here’s how my situation played out:

I described the problem to R1U and sent several photos. They sent me a new controller but I got the same Error 24. In the process of hooking it up I discovered the motor cable connector was heat-damaged. R1U then replaced the motor cable. I again got Error 24.

At this point we were about 2 weeks into the process and they sent me a replacement MXUS stator motor. I installed the stator, re-checked all the connections and 30 minutes later the bike is running great. If anything, it’s smoother and quieter than the original. R1U Customer Service has been very helpful throughout the entire process.

Although I couldn’t ride my bike for 20 days, that’s still about 10 days faster than I was quoted by my LBS to do the labor. R1U has a 1-year parts and workmanship warranty but it only covers labor for the first 30 days. While I can’t say it was great fun, replacing the controller and stator motor is not difficult if you take your time and pay attention to the Ride 1 Up video tutorials and others on YouTube.

Final thoughts: When trouble shooting Error 24, be sure to double-check all connectors and especially the power wires to and from the controller. If you need to replace your stator motor and have trouble removing the Philips head motor screws, the right-sized bit and a hammer-type impact wrench worked well for me.
As far as preventing heat-related issues, remember that just because the LMT'D can pull 900+ watts doesn't mean it's good to do it for extended periods of time.
 
That's excellent! Really good to know their service is still that good.
I looked up some stats and you're right. That type Higo's seem to be rated at 15amp continuous.
 
That's excellent! Really good to know their service is still that good.
I looked up some stats and you're right. That type Higo's seem to be rated at 15amp continuous.
Yeah, I needed to stay on top of things but I always got a quick response from them.
Hey what is a "Higo"? I assume you mean the motor, just not familiar with higos.
My new motor seems quieter than the first one. I suspect the new controller is the reason.
Here's one for the R1U Rumor Mill: I hear that the new LMT'D will have an AKM brand motor.
 
Yeah, I needed to stay on top of things but I always got a quick response from them.
Hey what is a "Higo"? I assume you mean the motor, just not familiar with higos.
My new motor seems quieter than the first one. I suspect the new controller is the reason.
Here's one for the R1U Rumor Mill: I hear that the new LMT'D will have an AKM brand motor.
Higo is a connector type, AKA a Julet, but for amps not 'signal' as Julets typically are.
 
Yes (and I apologize for not posting sooner). *** WARNING. THIS IS LONG AND BORING ***
The Controller: I've settled on Grin's Baserunner-L10, and Yes $220.00 is way too expensive.
Awaiting for some answers from Grin to clarify we can keep our KD218 displays. From what I can tell our displays are as good as it gets and Grin's B&W units not so much, so at $220 downgrading to a black and white display would be a deal breaker.
-
Yesterday, I finished installing a twist throttle. It's much better than the 'thumb-breaker', and on the (correct) right side, which was a bit awkward at first. My major goal of making the bike actually cruise at a given speed has been achieved and now, 'Hell bent for leather, or decelerating' have become choices rather than the only modes available.
A couple quick comments on that installation: The &%$#*@ lock mechanism is very &%$#@ difficult to reinstall. I advise to scroll a line on the plastic bottom plate to show exactly how far forward the battery connector plate must be for the screw to align - then it will only take 10 or 20 tries instead of 50! You must reassemble the bottom (long) screw first and be sure the stiff wires from the plate are not causing a spatial conflict with the controller.
Also, the ground/ signal wires on the new throttle were incorrect on the cable's plug - which had larger size wires, a better quality plug and about 3 extra feet - so I cut the wires shorter, soldered them correctly and shrink fit wrapped.
-
On to the Torque arms: I went with the "Adjustable Angle Torque Arm by hammer-ebikes" from uk_cycle_spares on ebay.
The (Super cool) seller accidentally left out the secondary arms, so I waited for them to ship. Shipping time was literally months and while I aged like a wine, waiting I decided 'Hmmmmmm, wouldn't a hole in that rack's steel bracket do that ???? So, I to drilled the 3mm steel plates connecting the Axiom Streamliner Disc DLX Bicycle Rack Pannier Carrier and bolted up the (pre-loaded) torque arms. Viola !!!
I told the evil demon trying to spin my hub, 'flex that, you ^%$#@. Demon's dilemma? That short plate is way stronger than the aluminum frame's attachment. So, if it breaks it'll be by shearing the frame attachment, and it was all hopeless anyhow (See more on plan 'B', below).
Did I say I was involved in building rally (and demolition derby) cars? You run it 'till it fails, bulletproof that, then crush the next weak link, bulletproof that and so on. You don't "fix" stuff that breaks, you make it stronger than the next ten weak links, break more stuff and try to destroy everything. Over, and over.
Yes, we crushed the competition. LOL
-
My end plan is to fabricate two more small steel plates, w/ longer bolts (using 5mm spacers where required), creating a sandwich eliminating a secondary arm. Let's see how strong that aluminum attachment really is. The other, upper attach points are so ill spaced they're virtually useless and I just can't see them adding any strength, with the spacers required to fit flush.
-
To complete the assembly, I used (Must Have ALERT) "Nord-lock" washers. Not cheap. Well worth it though.
Set-up: Fine spine side facing the aluminum frame> torque arm> second fine side facing torque arm and the coarse facing the R1U's Steel, automotive lug-nut.
A 200mile Inspection indicates zero movement since this installation method.
Note the washers. Pic 163213 shows a stock washer and two Nord-locks (Coarse sides out). That wear you see is how much that stock lock-washer was making contact !!! Same with photo (Stock washer and Nord-lock Fine side out)163109.
Look how little of the contact surface is marred? Really? 100NM of torque relying on that little contact?
Is there any amount one can torque that lug-nut down that could actually improve that situation, perhaps increase the contact surface from it's now unacceptable 20%, to even, say 30% ? The Lug-nut has even (way, way) coarser locking spines. Maybe 10% of it's surface is making contact with the washer. You want weak-link fail, there it is.
I also tried simply using Nord-lock washers, but upon disassembly, comparing to the dots I scrolled I detected movement. Another FAIL.
The torque arm on the derailer side had to be sanded down to eliminate clearance conflicts.
Never mind paint damage. When the hub spun, transporting it home in the back of a Tow truck meant scratches and when we tried to unlock that axle, anything those 1/2 drive tools touched they scratched.
I don't care because if the fix doesn't work and it spins again - with the baserunner pumping 80A Peak Phase Currents (~45-50A Continuous), I'll cut the aluminum dropouts off, weld drilled aluminum plates on and bolt up ballistic steel dropouts. Then when I finish, I'm going to strip and paint the frame in polyurethane and until then a scratch is a broken nail crisis.
IMHO a 40A controller would spin the stock set-up with ease. This motor is putting out maybe half it's rating with the stock controller. "Maybe", if that. 100nm is no joke. 173220 shows what you face - a spun axle. I'm not installing that Baserunner until I have that second plate installed.
The last point: Be sure to pre-load the arm before bolting down.
Visualize the wheel's going forward force pushing the opposite way, rearward, away from the frame. Adjust to tension, removing all slack in that direction and tighten down.
I highly recommend this Streamliner rack for our bikes. It's quality aluminum with steel brackets; heavy black finish; bolts right up and works to mount the torque arms perfectly ... $39 freewheel_bikes_madison on ebay. Even the arms are round steel stock with billet clamps , not cheesy flat steel like the rest - even Tubus.
And again, I cannot stress enough what great seller Ian of uk_cycle_spares is for the torque arm. Highly recommended and honest. This is buying on the ground floor, direct and exactly what it says it is.
-
I've also replaced the stock 44T Chainring and guard ('bash-guard' to me) with a 48T 1048CD, Deckas Narrow Wide Chainring w/ custom, laser-cut (US Made) Bash-guard. Included a few photos below. Compare that ugly stock bash ring - LOL.
If anyone cares, I have full photos and the particulars. If anyone can tell me the name of the company that makes my bash-guard, please do. A custom shop, they seem to have disappeared.
It looks sick, the chain feels far smoother and the new 48 tooth cog, 9% larger than the stock 44 tooth ??? yes, I detect an added 2mph top end pedaling now - 31.5mph.
More on the rest coming: Laser lights/ wireless turn signals; F & R fenders; front racks (two types); HD Ursus double arm kickstand; (various brands) extender bars to mount display/ GoPro/ Lighting; the 20,000 lumen 18650 rechargeable, +11 hours at "a brightness cars will high beam you", detachable LED Headlight, and the ABUS A6000 (attached to the seat tube), which works nice, but (every damn time) is a real pain to open and close without the alarm squealing and you looking like a dolt.
My boomerang GPS tracer is not yet installed.
I have to remove the rear wheel, drill the frame and insert/ epoxy in standoffs to mount where I prefer (180 degrees behind the lock bracket, in front of rear wheel). I may change my mind, so not ready yet.
AND I LOVE the R1U Panniers (pics coming). Crazy room inside. Abercrombie Fitch quality. I can haul two sixer of 8.0% IPA, a bottle of Chardonnay and all the fixin's for a Rack-of-Lamb Easter Dinner for me and mine, easy - insulated and cold too!!
The Center of Gravity beats groceries on my rack by a mile.
Unfortunately, it's brackets make it +6" higher than my rack (great for hauling a rack battery !!!) which interferes with my Lamborghini class side laser taillights, so I'll have to fabricate a rod for the brackets and attach it to the rack. I assure you it won't be tacky, hose clamped, duct taped, or with a pink ribbon. I have solid aluminum rods that I may use. Half moons dremelled out at appropriate points and a 1" piece of same stock with same cut outs and a bolt through each side. Also, sewing a veclro strap on the bottom to attach to those neat slots on this Streamliner rack's bottom bracket (See Photos), YES !!! Then you can simply undo bottom strap and lift the whole shebang off the rack, sling over your shoulder and in true John Wayne style bring the chilled wine to your damsel !!!
Hard day, burned out hope this helps all. Anything I can add with, feel free to ask direct. Anything you can help me with PLEASE post.

Cavalga como o vento !!!

F n' F
Yes (and I apologize for not posting sooner). *** WARNING. THIS IS LONG AND BORING ***
The Controller: I've settled on Grin's Baserunner-L10, and Yes $220.00 is way too expensive.
Awaiting for some answers from Grin to clarify we can keep our KD218 displays. From what I can tell our displays are as good as it gets and Grin's B&W units not so much, so at $220 downgrading to a black and white display would be a deal breaker.
-
Yesterday, I finished installing a twist throttle. It's much better than the 'thumb-breaker', and on the (correct) right side, which was a bit awkward at first. My major goal of making the bike actually cruise at a given speed has been achieved and now, 'Hell bent for leather, or decelerating' have become choices rather than the only modes available.
A couple quick comments on that installation: The &%$#*@ lock mechanism is very &%$#@ difficult to reinstall. I advise to scroll a line on the plastic bottom plate to show exactly how far forward the battery connector plate must be for the screw to align - then it will only take 10 or 20 tries instead of 50! You must reassemble the bottom (long) screw first and be sure the stiff wires from the plate are not causing a spatial conflict with the controller.
Also, the ground/ signal wires on the new throttle were incorrect on the cable's plug - which had larger size wires, a better quality plug and about 3 extra feet - so I cut the wires shorter, soldered them correctly and shrink fit wrapped.
-
On to the Torque arms: I went with the "Adjustable Angle Torque Arm by hammer-ebikes" from uk_cycle_spares on ebay.
The (Super cool) seller accidentally left out the secondary arms, so I waited for them to ship. Shipping time was literally months and while I aged like a wine, waiting I decided 'Hmmmmmm, wouldn't a hole in that rack's steel bracket do that ???? So, I to drilled the 3mm steel plates connecting the Axiom Streamliner Disc DLX Bicycle Rack Pannier Carrier and bolted up the (pre-loaded) torque arms. Viola !!!
I told the evil demon trying to spin my hub, 'flex that, you ^%$#@. Demon's dilemma? That short plate is way stronger than the aluminum frame's attachment. So, if it breaks it'll be by shearing the frame attachment, and it was all hopeless anyhow (See more on plan 'B', below).
Did I say I was involved in building rally (and demolition derby) cars? You run it 'till it fails, bulletproof that, then crush the next weak link, bulletproof that and so on. You don't "fix" stuff that breaks, you make it stronger than the next ten weak links, break more stuff and try to destroy everything. Over, and over.
Yes, we crushed the competition. LOL
-
My end plan is to fabricate two more small steel plates, w/ longer bolts (using 5mm spacers where required), creating a sandwich eliminating a secondary arm. Let's see how strong that aluminum attachment really is. The other, upper attach points are so ill spaced they're virtually useless and I just can't see them adding any strength, with the spacers required to fit flush.
-
To complete the assembly, I used (Must Have ALERT) "Nord-lock" washers. Not cheap. Well worth it though.
Set-up: Fine spine side facing the aluminum frame> torque arm> second fine side facing torque arm and the coarse facing the R1U's Steel, automotive lug-nut.
A 200mile Inspection indicates zero movement since this installation method.
Note the washers. Pic 163213 shows a stock washer and two Nord-locks (Coarse sides out). That wear you see is how much that stock lock-washer was making contact !!! Same with photo (Stock washer and Nord-lock Fine side out)163109.
Look how little of the contact surface is marred? Really? 100NM of torque relying on that little contact?
Is there any amount one can torque that lug-nut down that could actually improve that situation, perhaps increase the contact surface from it's now unacceptable 20%, to even, say 30% ? The Lug-nut has even (way, way) coarser locking spines. Maybe 10% of it's surface is making contact with the washer. You want weak-link fail, there it is.
I also tried simply using Nord-lock washers, but upon disassembly, comparing to the dots I scrolled I detected movement. Another FAIL.
The torque arm on the derailer side had to be sanded down to eliminate clearance conflicts.
Never mind paint damage. When the hub spun, transporting it home in the back of a Tow truck meant scratches and when we tried to unlock that axle, anything those 1/2 drive tools touched they scratched.
I don't care because if the fix doesn't work and it spins again - with the baserunner pumping 80A Peak Phase Currents (~45-50A Continuous), I'll cut the aluminum dropouts off, weld drilled aluminum plates on and bolt up ballistic steel dropouts. Then when I finish, I'm going to strip and paint the frame in polyurethane and until then a scratch is a broken nail crisis.
IMHO a 40A controller would spin the stock set-up with ease. This motor is putting out maybe half it's rating with the stock controller. "Maybe", if that. 100nm is no joke. 173220 shows what you face - a spun axle. I'm not installing that Baserunner until I have that second plate installed.
The last point: Be sure to pre-load the arm before bolting down.
Visualize the wheel's going forward force pushing the opposite way, rearward, away from the frame. Adjust to tension, removing all slack in that direction and tighten down.
I highly recommend this Streamliner rack for our bikes. It's quality aluminum with steel brackets; heavy black finish; bolts right up and works to mount the torque arms perfectly ... $39 freewheel_bikes_madison on ebay. Even the arms are round steel stock with billet clamps , not cheesy flat steel like the rest - even Tubus.
And again, I cannot stress enough what great seller Ian of uk_cycle_spares is for the torque arm. Highly recommended and honest. This is buying on the ground floor, direct and exactly what it says it is.
-
I've also replaced the stock 44T Chainring and guard ('bash-guard' to me) with a 48T 1048CD, Deckas Narrow Wide Chainring w/ custom, laser-cut (US Made) Bash-guard. Included a few photos below. Compare that ugly stock bash ring - LOL.
If anyone cares, I have full photos and the particulars. If anyone can tell me the name of the company that makes my bash-guard, please do. A custom shop, they seem to have disappeared.
It looks sick, the chain feels far smoother and the new 48 tooth cog, 9% larger than the stock 44 tooth ??? yes, I detect an added 2mph top end pedaling now - 31.5mph.
More on the rest coming: Laser lights/ wireless turn signals; F & R fenders; front racks (two types); HD Ursus double arm kickstand; (various brands) extender bars to mount display/ GoPro/ Lighting; the 20,000 lumen 18650 rechargeable, +11 hours at "a brightness cars will high beam you", detachable LED Headlight, and the ABUS A6000 (attached to the seat tube), which works nice, but (every damn time) is a real pain to open and close without the alarm squealing and you looking like a dolt.
My boomerang GPS tracer is not yet installed.
I have to remove the rear wheel, drill the frame and insert/ epoxy in standoffs to mount where I prefer (180 degrees behind the lock bracket, in front of rear wheel). I may change my mind, so not ready yet.
AND I LOVE the R1U Panniers (pics coming). Crazy room inside. Abercrombie Fitch quality. I can haul two sixer of 8.0% IPA, a bottle of Chardonnay and all the fixin's for a Rack-of-Lamb Easter Dinner for me and mine, easy - insulated and cold too!!
The Center of Gravity beats groceries on my rack by a mile.
Unfortunately, it's brackets make it +6" higher than my rack (great for hauling a rack battery !!!) which interferes with my Lamborghini class side laser taillights, so I'll have to fabricate a rod for the brackets and attach it to the rack. I assure you it won't be tacky, hose clamped, duct taped, or with a pink ribbon. I have solid aluminum rods that I may use. Half moons dremelled out at appropriate points and a 1" piece of same stock with same cut outs and a bolt through each side. Also, sewing a veclro strap on the bottom to attach to those neat slots on this Streamliner rack's bottom bracket (See Photos), YES !!! Then you can simply undo bottom strap and lift the whole shebang off the rack, sling over your shoulder and in true John Wayne style bring the chilled wine to your damsel !!!
Hard day, burned out hope this helps all. Anything I can add with, feel free to ask direct. Anything you can help me with PLEASE post.

Cavalga como o vento !!!

F n' F
I've been mulling over adding a 48T chain ring and was going to order the same ring that you used, then I noticed that yours was a 4-bolt pattern but mine is 5. I emailed R1U tonight, for some BCD advice.
I also notice there is only about 1/4" of clearance between my stock 44T chain ring and the chain stay, so I hope my new ring is not any taller than the one you got. Hopefully 1Up customer svc has heard this query before . There's nothing wrong with the stock gearing but IMO it's too low for someone that rides on flat topography most of the time.
 
I hear ya and just installed a 50T 130BCD WolfTooth on Gumbo Dacious - closing on 100miles riding - before this storm (It snowed in San Diego Campo area right on the US/ Mexico border. Ugh).
For the Lm'td I found these Decas Ring Gears are inexpensive ($15) and last well.
It should list the sizing on your present ring. If not: Here's a link on how to measure the ring.
-
I so concur. It's an economical, simple improvement. I'd dare say for any terrain the Lm'td is meant to run.
A 48T, while it won't make the bike faster, improves the Lm'td where you have to pedal less and the gearing is less tilted towards vertical terrain.
Rear hub's are RPM limited. From that point onward torque drags, not pushes.
Even old as dirt, this stuff fascinates me !!!
This link shows the relative Power Curves of rear hub drives. Notice from '0' down you see negative torque values?
0 = 30.7mph (Zero Efficiency) and 0nm. At 32.31mph, you're dragging against '10nm's' (plus the weight of the machine).
Set the display controller value to 26" wheels, whatever and the true rpm of the rear wheel will 'produce' the same result.
If you can't increase the wheel size, game over.
Mid drive being different - the ring gear is (rpm limited) actually driving the rear wheel via a chain - a larger gear = more distance of chain moved per revolution.
Took me a bit to wrap my stubborn head around all this and I figured 'mid-drive are the way to go !!!'
Well sort of. Go to the LBS. They eat drivetrains.
If you shift, just getting on the cog when that power kicks in is pretty destructive.
Pedal one-quarter turn of the ring and BANG, big torque - right when the 11T on the cassette is just engaging the chain on it's third tooth and a 12T only has three teeth engaged.
You follow me?
Shifting technique is 'Pause, shift. Pedal one-eighth turn, pause then pedal (now fully engaged on the cog) and maybe cassette, ring and chain lasts 1000miles, not less than 300.
-
Hub drives are more economical, require less maintenance and have a built in safety factor: if drivetrain fails, the throttle will get you home.
Yes, a 48t will be slightly taller. I advise against offsetting, changing the chain-line. Everything I read says it causes excessive wear and (often/ sooner or later) causes shifting problems. I've seen the effect in other applications.
A steel chain with a new (crooked) angle of contact at the interface of the gears; chewing up the alloy ring/ increasing chain wear on steel cogs - will seek to fit by abrading into that groove.
If the chain wears, next up is the derailleur. All these parts are relatively inexpensive, but IMO: still an expensive compromise to use a larger ring that won't make the machine any faster (ie: Bang for the buck).
-
I'm sure you're studying up - and BTW, Big Congrats on repairing that MXUS!
Nothing on that machine is even slightly beyond your ability.
-
I couldn't discern if a 48T would fit the Lm'td until I tried it.
Contrary to online instructions, I didn't have to increase the chain length with the Lm'td (44T to 48T, or with Gumbo (46T to 50T).
My only problem was finding a bash plate/ chain-ring guard for the 48T. You won't have that.
Here's the 50T on Gumbo
20221207_141826[1].jpg


20221207_141914[1].jpg

It made a 9% Difference.
Next up (1000miles down the road), installing a two-link longer chain and a 52T Ring.
20221120_124652[1].jpg

That's the 46T. I've got the space.
With you, I'm a Flatlander with miles of flat Coast to cruise.

Fn'F
 
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