Pure torque control. Cadence and others if included leads to unnatural ride.

On the Bafang you have 24 magnets on the cadence sensor and that allows you to select 1 to 24 in the settings of how much rotation delay you prefer.
I actually like 6, a quarter crank.
If you choose 1 there is no delay with minimal pedal pressure as long as you have start kg (pedal pressure) set reasonably as well.

As for the OP... The Bafang is a heavy motor that's typically paired with a large battery.. so that doesn't fit with his weight wants
 
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Lag generally has to do with (1) how often the controller checks pedal input, which can vary between 20 and more than 100 times per second, and (2) how much angular change has to happen in the cranks before the controller does anything.

Generally cheaper e-bikes have bigger lags.

Two big things I'd like to see in the pedal assist world:
  1. The power a cyclist gives to the bike varies over a pedal cycle, from zero when the pedals are vertical to some maximum when the pedals are nearly horizontal. I suspect that an e-bike that delivered more assist when pedal input was near zero and much less assist when pedal input was at the maximum would feel more like riding a very quick acoustic bike and would be far more efficient than current brute-force designs.
  2. I think tying pedal assist to a heart rate monitor and using that to keep the rider's heart rate in a specified range would be a big deal. To do this right you'd probably need some kind of "negative assist" and you'd certainly need a lot of assist levels, probably a continuous range of assistance depending on heart rate.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
Lag generally has to do with (1) how often the controller checks pedal input, which can vary between 20 and more than 100 times per second, and (2) how much angular change has to happen in the cranks before the controller does anything.

Generally cheaper e-bikes have bigger lags.

Two big things I'd like to see in the pedal assist world:
  1. The power a cyclist gives to the bike varies over a pedal cycle, from zero when the pedals are vertical to some maximum when the pedals are nearly horizontal. I suspect that an e-bike that delivered more assist when pedal input was near zero and much less assist when pedal input was at the maximum would feel more like riding a very quick acoustic bike and would be far more efficient than current brute-force designs.
  2. I think tying pedal assist to a heart rate monitor and using that to keep the rider's heart rate in a specified range would be a big deal. To do this right you'd probably need some kind of "negative assist" and you'd certainly need a lot of assist levels, probably a continuous range of assistance depending on heart rate.
Click to expand...
On the Bafang you will actually hear the motor change pitch as you crank... So the power output is mimicking your input and outputting accordingly.
That said if it was somewhere in between which is easier to achieve at higher PAS with higher output in general... That would probably be the most efficient.
 
Ride a DM02 or a new Specialized. Then you will know. Otherwise it is discussing a wine you never tasted. A costal pinot noir is a different animal not of the same species. The bar goes green when you reach a 70 plus cadence with pedal pressure to ask for power. Natural. Bob Dillon still played the guitar when he went electric. It was just amplified.
 
my first e bike had a dapu mid-drive. even just lightly resting your foot on the pedal would activate it. You had to hold the brake levers to rest your foot on a pedal.
 
I have a bbso2 from Luna with their program, and it is a cadence sensing PAS. It works great, no noticeable lag and never have the ghost pedaling issue. I also have a Grin hubmotor bike with a torque sensor in the free hub. With the torque sensing bike I have to pedal with equal force from each leg. With a right knee problem I have learned to adjust the strength of my left leg.
I would really like to test an ebike that has a smart PAS. Like, there is a Trek bike shop just down the hill from me! I don't plan on buying an ebike as I have so many that I have built over the past two and a half years.
Still, I would like to check out a state of the art ebike. Otherwise, I have this throttle only baby:


PXL_20250103_212330485.jpg
 
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Mr. Coffee said:
I think tying pedal assist to a heart rate monitor and using that to keep the rider's heart rate in a specified range would be a big deal. To do this right you'd probably need some kind of "negative assist" and you'd certainly need a lot of assist levels, probably a continuous range of assistance depending on heart rate.
Click to expand...
It's called Specialized Smart Control 😊
 
Mr. Coffee said:
Sort of.
Click to expand...
Not sort of. Smart Control is exactly this:
  • You set the base assistance (which can be very low or even zero)
  • You set the threshold HR
  • The motor provides exactly the amount of assistance to keep your HR below the threshold.
 
The most natural feeling eBike I have had is similar to the one shown above by Gromike. A throttle, with cruise control and front hub motor that allows for whatever input I wanted to put into the pedals (no pas) in whatever gear ratio feels the most natural at the time at whatever watt output I have the motor tuned to. I learned how to pedal years ago on my own and having the assistance of the additional watt output of the motor without any effect on the pedals feels the most natural to me although my main bike is a torque/cadence combo mid drive that I have tuned as close as I can get it to feel how I want at the cranks it will never be as natural as the former for me. It does work much better however on rough terrain which I primarily ride anymore. I do believe in whatever works best however for anyone's needs.
 
JRA said:
I do believe in whatever works best however for anyone's needs
Click to expand...
Amen to that. Many ebikes on the roads in my hilly area — most just for transportation, and most RadRover types with 20-inch fat tires, throttles, and simple on-off cadence-sensing PAS. Lots of ghost-pedalling in this group but seldom any serious effort.

HOWEVER, ebiking isn't about exercise for them. It's about getting from A to B with some fresh air along the way despite the many hills.

For these riders, simple cadence-sensing PAS and throttles make a lot of practical sense, however "unnatural" the power delivery might feel. As long as they ride responsibly, what they choose to ride is their business, not mine.
 
gromike said:
Otherwise, I have this throttle only baby:
Click to expand...
What kind of throttle does it have? I don't like lever throttles or either kind of PAS. A half twist throttle allows precise control by letting me hold the throttle and the fixed grip at the same time. When the steepness of a grade or the speed of a headwind would force me to shift down and go at a crawl, I can instead supplement my pedaling with just enough motor power to maintain speed.
 
Neto said:
I wrote this Pure Torque Sensor title hoping to get some information from the designers, programmers or technician who works on ebike controllers. Give us some details how cadence and other sensors can improve the ride. Why can't they fix the lagging power delivery during start?
Click to expand...
Hey Neto and all the rest of you typists Please - Look It Up First ! Start with the pictures OK? - Because you are obviously not Electrical Engineers; Technicians or have any specific knowledge of once per revolution sensors, rotating torque measurement or Hall sensor theory. If you take the time to examine the design of replacement eBike 'torque sensor' assemblies before you display your ignorance here. You may understand how these are constructed you AND 5 sensors per eBike PLEASE enumerate ?

UMM no
Agree that power delivery becomes more natural-feeling as you go from simple on-off cadence-sensing assist to a torque-sensing and then a power-sensing PAS (pedal assist system). But so does cost, and cost matters.
In my experience, torque-sensing is a huge step up from cadence-sensing in this regard and a more than adequate PAS solution for people unable or unwilling to pay for a power-sensing ebike.
Now for a plea to the EBR community: Let's get past the common practice of equating PAS with cadence-sensing assist.
A power- or torque-sensing assist scheme is also a PAS. We spend a lot of time discussing pedal assist here, and to do it clearly, we really need to keep PAS the overarching term that it logically is.

4 OH? 5
Really? Sounds like you already have it all figured out.
We've given you examples of some real ebikes that actually do that. And I gave a broad outline of how Specialized uses not just torque but rider power (the product of cadence and torque) in its mid-drive PAS. Details here.
They fixed it to my satisfaction in my Specialized Vado SL. How many different ebikes have you actually ridden?
My own words, exactly. Mid-drive motors from good brands (Specialized/Brose/Mahle, Bosch, Yamaha, Fazua, TQ, Shimano...) use not only the combination of torque and cadence to determine the rider's leg power and then assistance but also utilise four to five sensors to provide the most natural riding experience.
People who say they prefer torque to PAS seem to have never ridden a good e-bike.
 
Teach on Yanni , Stephan I know knot if you please how will to describe these items for sale?:
'once per revolution pedal assist magnetic switches with accessory hall proximity sensors at bottom dead center'
 
fooferdoggie,
Seems like your bike behaves like my 2022 generation ebike. If not holding the brake, and you put your feet on the pedal, the assist is instantaneous. How old is your bike?
I couldn't find that same behavior in the new generation of ebike.
 
Neto said:
fooferdoggie,
Seems like your bike behaves like my 2022 generation ebike. If not holding the brake, and you put your feet on the pedal, the assist is instantaneous. How old is your bike?
I couldn't find that same behavior in the new generation of ebike.
Click to expand...
the dapu was about 5 years ago. but my bosch will do it to a lesser extent. it takes more pressure.
 
spokewrench said:
What kind of throttle does it have?
Click to expand...
A right hand half-twist throttle. I'd install a cadence PAS sensor, but what I have won't fit on the crank. Being that the bike is a Cannondale Badboy it is super nimble, and functions surprisingly well with its 350w geared front hub motor. It probably gets 750w full throttle.
 
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