Programming assist levels

[Sonoran49]

While I patiently (NOT) wait for my Trance E + 1 Pro I have been think about programming the assist levels. I think I want to bring them down some and try to extend my battery range. My main goal is to "flatten" the hills a bit and get help with the Flagstaff AZ elevation (7,000 ft.) and winds. I'm a pretty strong rider in the Phoenix area and hills and elevation (~ 1400 ft.) are not an issue. I ride analog when in the valley.

Any thoughts /recommendations? Thanks in advance.

 

[MattsQuickE]

I know the iOS App Store has the ride control app. Pair with your bike and you can adjust the levels in 25% increments iirc. Also good for updating firmware.

 

[Browneye]

So I've done our local loop at least a half dozen times, and it doesn't seem to make much difference what level, fast or slow, it seems to use about the same amount of the power pack. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think there's a trade off with assist level and speed and length of time or duration. It ranges from 15 to 25 miles with about a quarter of it pavement. About 3500 300' elevation gain.

I am happy with the range, seems to be easily 30 miles. If you're not doing a lot of climbing, probably a lot more. Surely you could stretch it to 40.

Mine is the +2 and I really like it a lot - much more than I initially expected. That's pretty cool when you get something that was more than you expected.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I've done our local loop at least a half dozen times, and it doesn't seem to make much difference what level, fast or slow, it seems to use about the same amount of the power pack.

Getting the elevation gain is almost independent of the assistance level. The reason is the e-bike has to counter the gravitational energy which is m*g*h where m is the total mass of the bike + rider + baggage, g is the gravity and h is the elevation gain. The gravitational energy gain is achieved by the leg power + motor power. Whichever assistance level is chosen, the same energy amount must be input into the crank. The heavier the rider is, the more energy is needed. That is why a 130 lb rider will get almost twice elevation gain than the 260 lb cyclist on the same battery*.

Assistance levels play critical role on the flats. At low speeds, it is the rolling resistance that affects the range (that's why any cyclist riding good roads inflates their tyres almost to the allowed maximum; not the case in the off-road cycling when the tyre grip is essential). Above some speed, air resistance becomes the dominant figure and it affects the power demand in the third power vs speed increase. Optimising the assistance levels is adequate for long rides where the most of the route is on the flats. (By decreasing the assistance level, the rider agrees to ride slower and use more leg power to conserve the battery charge).
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*) In case the rider is heavy, the only solution is carrying a spare battery or two. The extra 6 or 12 lb doesn't change the total weight very much.

 

[Mtl_Biker]

So I've done our local loop at least a half dozen times, and it doesn't seem to make much difference what level, fast or slow, it seems to use about the same amount of the power pack. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think there's a trade off with assist level and speed and length of time or duration. It ranges from 15 to 25 miles with about a quarter of it pavement. About 3500 elevation gain.

I am happy with the range, seems to be easily 30 miles. If you're not doing a lot of climbing, probably a lot more. Surely you could stretch it to 40.

Mine is the +2 and I really like it a lot - much more than I initially expected. That's pretty cool when you get something that was more than you expected.

Nice looking stand! Did you make it yourself? The two vertical tee's you have... they appear to be angled slightly forward (off the normal 90 degrees)... is that right? I've only seen those tee's with 90 degrees. Or does it just appear that they're angled forward? Maybe the pressure of the front wheel is bending those tubes to make it look like that.

Seems like an easy project to occupy some time during the self-isolation Covid period.

Great looking bike!

 

[Browneye]

The stand - thanks! I got tired of dealing with no sidestand on the mtb.

1" PVC and a few fittings. Only the base center fittings are glued, the rest is friction fit so it can be broken down and stored or transported. A rubber mallet snugs up pvc fittings pretty well.
The best thing was the Krylon Fusion paint.
And no angles, it's an optical illusion - just standard fittings. The cool thing is it works for front OR back wheel.

There are a number of design ideas online - just search 'pvc bike stand' and there are singles, multi's, racks, all kinds of neat ideas. I love working with pvc. A chop-saw (miter-saw) is the shiznit.

A closer pic:



And before paint:

 

[Mtl_Biker]

You did a really good job on the paint! Just with a spray can or proper spray gun?Nicely done!

I’ve often worked with pvc so that’s not a problem.

Even though my Explore E+1 has a side stand, in my garage it takes up more space (leans way over) than it would if upright.

Darn! I just took a look at my bike and this kind of stand might not work... I’d forgotten about the fenders! And they extend quite a bit forward of the center (axle) line on the wheel. Guess I’ll just have to experiment and see.

Best regards, and keep healthy!

 

[Browneye]

You could likely put the uprights into the front rail of the base which would clear the front fender. It doesn't take much to hold a bike up.

Krylon Fusion is the go-to for anything plastic. Just don't look for it a HD.

 

[Oscar56]

Back to our previously scheduled program...



I purchased my 2020 Giant Phantom the first week of March, just a week ahead of things starting to tighten up due to Covid. I knew that battery life was dependant on a whole host of variables: battery size, style of riding, terrain and assist level. One of the reasons I favoured a Giant was that with the app you can adjust the assist levels.

My rides are primarily 90% paved and 10% well packed tails and logging roads.
Just guessing on my use of the assist levels would be:

Eco 80%
Eco + 10%
Normal 5%
Sport 3%
Sport + 2%

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The first month I rode with the factory settings:

Eco - 100%
Eco + 175%
Normal 250%
Sport 300%
Sport + 360%

Keeping my battery charged between 80% and 20% I was getting approximately 0.6km per % of battery. But I was unsure what the rate of battery use was at the top and bottom of the battery. So I charged the battery to 100% and drained it to 0%. (of course I hit 0% at the bottom of the steepest and longest hill in town. But it was a sacrifice for science). Riding my normal range of routes I achieved 51.7km. That was alright but a bit disappointing.

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This month I amended the assist levels to:

Eco - 75%
Eco + 125%
Normal 200%
Sport 250%
Sport + 360%

I charged the battery to 100% again and then ran my test. This time I drained the battery from 100 to 7% and completed 98.4km. Boy, what a difference.

I think I have found my sweet spot and don't think I need to tweak the settings any further.

Your mileage my vary!

 

[Browneye]

We did a 14 mile loop yesterday on the road bikes - I rode almost entirely in eco (level 2) at the factory setting. Still showing 60 miles of range when we returned. I was pretty happy with that - it has WAY more range than I've used so far. I'm now confident telling people 40-50 miles is no problem, you just have to be willing to pedal the bike.

I like the idea of cutting them all back for extending range. I may do some trials with the mtb - it doesn't have that much range in comparison.

 

[Sonoran49]

Thank you Oscar56 for your "testing". I'm all for pedaling the majority of the time. I only want to "flatten the hills" and get some help with the Flagstaff wins. I hope to post my results when I get the bike in May.

Our son texted me a photo of a beautiful Giant shipping box the other day. He'll have it put together when we get up there in a few weeks.

 

[Oscar56]

Thank you Oscar56 for your "testing". I'm all for pedaling the majority of the time. I only want to "flatten the hills" and get some help with the Flagstaff wins. I hope to post my results when I get the bike in May.

Our son texted me a photo of a beautiful Giant shipping box the other day. He'll have it put together when we get up there in a few weeks.

Which model are you going to find in your box?

 

[Sonoran49]

A 2020 Trance E + 1 Pro. My wife is getting a 2020 Intrigue E + 1 Pro. We've riding analog mtb's in Flagstaff for 12 years now but the altitude started getting to me last summer. (Not that we do that much technical riding up there like our son does).

 

[Browneye]

You're going to love those bikes. Just fantastic.

 

[hdradaza]

Hello everyone! Newbie here. I just recently purchased a Giant Fathom E+2 Pro 2020. We recently moved to a very hilly area and with the covid lockdown, seemed like a good way to stay in shape. Never had a mountain bike before and now straight to an e bike.

I have always wanted to be able to use the ebike as a mechanical bike (effort wise) but soon found out if I turn off electric assist, it is obviously heavier, therefore more work. If I set it at the lowest setting (Eco) it is easier than a mechanical bike. I would like to change Eco setting to make it as close as possible to the effort of a mechanical bike.

Has anyone toyed with this idea and successfully found that sweet spot to make it similar? Of course rider weight would make a difference. If anyone has tried, what settings are they?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You need to connect your smartphone to the Fathom with the Giant RideControl App. The App will find your e-bike as long as the power is on. First, you will be told to update your e-bike's software. The process takes many minutes but it is safe. Once connected, you can decrease the support of the ECO mode.

Just try decreasing the support in steps. Keep the phone with the App on in your pocket and ride. Too much support? Decrease more. I have done it but I find I am happy with the default power levels on my Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro 2020.

 

[Browneye]

All of mine are at stock levels. Level 1 is nearly too low for practical use on any of them - we nearly always use 2, then 3 for a little more, and 4-5 for hills.
What is even more interesting is that energy usage is not really affected, more or less, on any of the settings. It seems to take a certain amount of juice to power you through a given distance, regardless of other factors. Or put another way, 'it doesn't seem to make much difference on power usage'. Perhaps just a bit. Like trying to hyper-mile - yeah, you can try, and you might stretch it a little. Climbing hills has more affect on power usage than any other factor, from what I've experienced.

 

[CSH]

All of mine are at stock levels. Level 1 is nearly too low for practical use on any of them - we nearly always use 2, then 3 for a little more, and 4-5 for hills.
What is even more interesting is that energy usage is not really affected, more or less, on any of the settings. It seems to take a certain amount of juice to power you through a given distance, regardless of other factors. Or put another way, 'it doesn't seem to make much difference on power usage'. Perhaps just a bit. Like trying to hyper-mile - yeah, you can try, and you might stretch it a little. Climbing hills has more affect on power usage than any other factor, from what I've experienced.

Hey Browneye............... Have you noticed if AUTO uses more, or less, Battery ?
Some think it does use more, yet I thought I read (a while back) it optimizes Battery usage....... Anyone ?

Craig

 

[Browneye]

None of my bikes have auto-mode - they're all 2019's.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

None of my bikes have auto-mode - they're all 2019's.

Mine had until I downgraded it to RideControl EVO (and I am so happy!)