Peddling on a BBSHD

[Berserker26]

Hey all,

I'm researching Mid Drives, everywhere I read about the BBSHD and how peddling makes almost no difference, you barely have to pedal and the motor will do all the work (not using the throttle). Thing is, I'd like to get some exercise when using this to commute to work. 30km each way. Can you set the PAS so that I can be putting in a heap of effort, and still getting benefit from the motor? I don't want to be freewheeling/spinning the cranks with no resistance at all, want to feel like i'm working and the motor is working with me. I'm guessing I can just dial down the PAS but wanted to ask the hive mind as can't find a good explanation of this anywhere.

 

[batpot]

I was on the verge of buying a TSDZ2 for this exact reason, as it uses torque based assist.

Ended up just going with a front motor ebikeling, and plan to use the throttle to assist on hills, while hauling kids.

Also, assume you've read this:

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

 

[tomjasz]

Are you peddling, selling? Or pedaling looking for help?

 

[tomjasz]

Consider a BBS02 and riding it like a bike with lower assist levels.

 

[harryS]

I have the BBS02 from 2016. Originally set at 3 PAS levels, I felt the assist level was too strong for ridng at 12 mph. It is easily changed to 5 or 9 levels, and with the latter, PAS 1 feels better to me. The bike is doing about 50-60% of the work at that speed if I pedal in high gear.

If I had bought the programming cable, I could further tweak the current for less or more assist at each level, but I passed on this option because I didn't want to fiddle with those settings.

The BBSHD, being a lot stronger, will probably require some adjustments of those program registers to allow it to be ridden like a bike.

You could also just disconnect the pedal sensor and ride it like a bike, feathering in throttle as needed. On the older systems like mine, one could feather in throttle on any PAS level, but I believe Bafang now forces you to use either, but you cannot use both at the same time.

 

[Berserker26]

Thanks for the help everybody!

Sounds like there's no simple way to do it. Might have to start looking further into rear hub drives I think.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks for the help everybody!

Sounds like there's no simple way to do it. Might have to start looking further into rear hub drives I think.

Unless you add torque sensing bottom bracket a hub drive isn’t that different of a response than using PAS. IMO this is a silly concern. Want to peddle and have more resistance with a mid drive kit? Turn it off? Lower the assist level. Or look to a integrated purpose built bike with a Bosch or similar system.

BBSHD motors are more powerhouse, off-road, fast commuter, or light industrial motors. An avid rider will be clown pedaling. Want to haul groceries, go single track MTB, and have 30mph all day! Bob’s your uncle.

I think the BBSxx throttle/pas issue is another over thought non problem. But no kit will meet Bosch riding standards.

I’m a DIY fella and still ride a 2014 BBS01 36v 350W. I ride it like a bicycle, moving through the gears as I have since my first ten speed more than 5 decades ago. 9 levels of assist and exercise at low level 1 or 2 assistance, should I want exercise. Not as natural a feel to the torque assist lovers, but again it’s a diy kit.

Today I met a friend riding the local lake path. He has 7000 miles on his Bosch, Electra 8i. When budget allows and a buyer wants more of a bicycle with natural assist one needs to invest near $3000. But it’s a great investment. My friend is still on his original 13Ah original battery. So far energy costs around nine cents a mile. A lotta grins for a buck or two a day.

Geared hub drives with torques sensing like eBikes.ca kits are a good diy option. I support mid drive kits, I ride mid drives, but my newest build is a rear gear drive. I don’t have a use for a range of gears, and the level of sophistication.

Review what you need, what you ideally want, and then develop a budget.

Converting a favorite ride is a fun project, but not always a dollar saver.

 

[dalrun]

Love my TSDZ2, very natural and consistent pedal assist. I ride it like a regular bike, changing gears to keep the effort/cadence consistent. The motor just makes pedaling my choice of easier. The highest assist is a little too responsive when maneuvering at low speeds, but its great for easy cruising on grades/in headwinds. I was sold on the CCS2, but decided to go the DIY route for half the price (including buying a used bike that cost the original owner more than the whole project cost me) .

 

[Berserker26]

Thanks for all the further responses - am going to do some further research into the TSDZ2 as a few have mentioned it and sounds like would suit me. Going into a 100mm BB fatbike. Am sure they have adapters. And it'll be simple....surely.... :-/

 

[tomjasz]

Love my TSDZ2, very natural and consistent pedal assist. I ride it like a regular bike, changing gears to keep the effort/cadence consistent. The motor just makes pedaling my choice of easier. The highest assist is a little too responsive when maneuvering at low speeds, but its great for easy cruising on grades/in headwinds. I was sold on the CCS2, but decided to go the DIY route for half the price (including buying a used bike that cost the original owner more than the whole project cost me) .

Which version? Who sells them? What bike? We’re all interested in details?

 

[dalrun]

TSDZ2: 500w 48v w/ small VLCD6 display bought from PSWPower
Bike: 2009? Rocky Mountain RC50 hybrid

I'll post a new topic with more details, currently testing a supposed LG M26 cell like the ones my battery contains

.

 

[tomjasz]

Thought hard about selling them, being able to use open source programming...
Good to read you like it. I think the torque sensing has an odd feel, but it is popular. Looking forward to more discussion by riders.

 

[Berserker26]

I've got a Giant Quick E with the Yamaha motor and that's got a torque sensor. This is partly why I asked the question about the BBSHD for a conversion. I love the yamaha motor. Assist gives me a certain level of power on top of what my legs are putting in. I can have it in ECO and it sort of makes a heavy bike feel like a normal bike, I usually ride in Normal, I'm still working hard and getting my exercise but instead of 24kph I'm doing 40kph. Feels like a tail wind. Also feels like a normal bike. I'm not interested in throttles and barely pedalling, I can see the appeal however it's not for me.

I have a Salsa Blackborow cargo bike I want to electrify so was trying to find the best option. Will have to look into the TSDZ2 in more detail now.

 

[tomjasz]

I've got a Giant Quick E with the Yamaha motor and that's got a torque sensor. This is partly why I asked the question about the BBSHD for a conversion. I love the yamaha motor. Assist gives me a certain level of power on top of what my legs are putting in. I can have it in ECO and it sort of makes a heavy bike feel like a normal bike, I usually ride in Normal, I'm still working hard and getting my exercise but instead of 24kph I'm doing 40kph. Feels like a tail wind. Also feels like a normal bike. I'm not interested in throttles and barely pedalling, I can see the appeal however it's not for me.

I have a Salsa Blackborow cargo bike I want to electrify so was trying to find the best option. Will have to look into the TSDZ2 in more detail now.

I think the TSDZ2 is a poor choice for a working cargo bike. By working I mean actually hauling 100 plus. Pounds of cargo. The torque sensing of the Yamaha and the TSDZ2 are very different critters. From my perspective working bikes and torque sensing are not a great combo, unless the cargo bike is used for light duty. More of a light grocery hauler. But that’s a personal opinion. Hopefully you can find a TSDZ2 build someone wrote up about on a cargo bike. Even though I sell and support mid drive kits I’m begining to move away from them and into gear drive hubs. Fewer issues all round.

 

[tomjasz]

Best option IMO https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/gmac.html