Pedaling with no power.

[DBurns]

I've checked the forum and cannot find a direct answer to this.
Anyway, on my Aventure.2 if I COAST on a downgrade, the bike freewheels as a normal "analog" bike. Once the grade begins to level off and I pedal (Assist level 0) it feels as if the brakes are being applied. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I even turned the battery off to no avail. When I stop pedaling, great freewheeling again. Before I spent too much time on this, I took my wife's Aventure.2 out with no battery, same thing so it isn't unique to my bike alone.
I love to ride power off on downgrades and flats but this is making it very difficult.
Does anyone have this happen and/or a solution?

 

[Ben J]

It's a fat tire bike. It has huge rolling resistance. The gears are set up for assist so they're much taller than normal fat tire bike gears.

 

[harryS]

Switch to 3" smooth tread tires like the Veeco Speedster and buy lighter inner tubes. Ligtening the rolling weight of the wheels will let them accelerate faster for easier pedaling. I think I saved 2 lbs per wheel on my fat tire bike and that made it rideable w/o power. I even made it 21 speeds so I could always find a comfortable gear.

Still, it was a mondo hog and now I will ride ebikes with 27 x 35mm tires when I want low rolling resistance,.

 

[Chuck_M]

Anyway, on my Aventure.2 if I COAST on a downgrade, the bike freewheels as a normal "analog" bike. Once the grade begins to level off and I pedal (Assist level 0) it feels as if the brakes are being applied. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I even turned the battery off to no avail. When I stop pedaling, great freewheeling again. Before I spent too much time on this, I took my wife's Aventure.2 out with no battery, same thing so it isn't unique to my bike alone.
I love to ride power off on downgrades and flats but this is making it very difficult.
Does anyone have this happen and/or a solution?

You are describing the internal gear belt drive to a tee. On the Como anyway. The IGH requires power.

 

[Bodiejack]

I've checked the forum and cannot find a direct answer to this.
Anyway, on my Aventure.2 if I COAST on a downgrade, the bike freewheels as a normal "analog" bike. Once the grade begins to level off and I pedal (Assist level 0) it feels as if the brakes are being applied. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I even turned the battery off to no avail. When I stop pedaling, great freewheeling again. Before I spent too much time on this, I took my wife's Aventure.2 out with no battery, same thing so it isn't unique to my bike alone.
I love to ride power off on downgrades and flats but this is making it very difficult.
Does anyone have this happen and/or a solution?

Hi DBurns -- Interesting! I've got the same problem with a brand new Pace 500.3. Going downhill with no pedaling, the bike rolls fast, with no friction. But the minute I start to pedal, no matter what the PAS level, it feels like the brakes turned on, moderately but very noticeably. It makes the bike almost impossible to pedal when the motor conks out, which happens often. If one is far from home when the motor or battery fails, you have to laboriously walk the bike home. Have you ever figured out what the problem was with your Aventure?

 

[DBurns]

Hi DBurns -- Interesting! I've got the same problem with a brand new Pace 500.3. Going downhill with no pedaling, the bike rolls fast, with no friction. But the minute I start to pedal, no matter what the PAS level, it feels like the brakes turned on, moderately but very noticeably. It makes the bike almost impossible to pedal when the motor conks out, which happens often. If one is far from home when the motor or battery fails, you have to laboriously walk the bike home. Have you ever figured out what the problem was with your Aventure?

As it turns out, there isn't anything wrong with the bike. It's just the nature of the beast with a hub drive motor. I had a couple of Eahora 20in folding bikes that did the same. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I guess spinning up the motor through the planetary gears causes this. I wonder why your motor konks out on a regular basis.

 

[Roamers]

You are describing the internal gear belt drive to a tee. On the Como anyway. The IGH requires power.

Our C380s pedal fine unpowered; was a test I did as condition of purchasing. Very similar to analog bike on the level.

 

[spokewrench]

As it turns out, there isn't anything wrong with the bike. It's just the nature of the beast with a hub drive motor. I had a couple of Eahora 20in folding bikes that did the same. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I guess spinning up the motor through the planetary gears causes this. I wonder why your motor konks out on a regular basis.

None of my 4 hub-drive ebikes, including my Abound, have done that. Normally, a hub motor contains a clutch, which lets the wheel freewheel from the motor, as yours does. Normally, the sprocket drives the wheel but not the motor. Obviously, your sprocket is driving the motor. Maybe there's something peculiar about the design of the Adventure 2, or maybe something in the hub needs cleaning, lubing, or replacement.

 

[DBurns]

None of my 4 hub-drive ebikes, including my Abound, have done that. Normally, a hub motor contains a clutch, which lets the wheel freewheel from the motor, as yours does. Normally, the sprocket drives the wheel but not the motor. Obviously, your sprocket is driving the motor. Maybe there's something peculiar about the design of the Adventure 2, or maybe something in the hub needs cleaning, lubing, or replacement.

Coasting and NOT pedaling isn't the issue. When you pedal, you do cause the motor to spin. When coasting, the pawls are not engaging the motor, when you pedal, you fight the motor. I've had the freehub assy apart for another reason and there is no lubrication or contamination problem.

 

[spokewrench]

Coasting and NOT pedaling isn't the issue. When you pedal, you do cause the motor to spin. When coasting, the pawls are not engaging the motor, when you pedal, you fight the motor. I've had the freehub assy apart for another reason and there is no lubrication or contamination problem.

Yes, I said coasting and NOT pedaling isn't the issue. Normally, I've run all 4 of my bikes at PAS 0 unless I was in a hurry or climbing a steep grade. I haven't had motor resistance from any of them. I recall the time a Rad owner posted a description of motor resistance when pedaling. Never having heard of it, I thought he was mistaken. In 2019, a Levo owner asked why he was getting resistance at PAS 0. Several other riders said he must be mistaken.

They don't all do it.

 

[indianajo]

As it turns out, there isn't anything wrong with the bike. It's just the nature of the beast with a hub drive motor. I had a couple of Eahora 20in folding bikes that did the same. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I guess spinning up the motor through the planetary gears causes this. I wonder why your motor konks out on a regular basis.

Coasting uses the freewheel in the back wheel. A one way clutch. Pedaling without power uses the one way clutch in the motor, to not spin the rotor with your feet. I've used 5 geared hub drives, all had little drag pedaling unpowered. Perhaps your geared hub is defective, with the clutch stuck.
I find 2.1" tires at 50-55 psi are a good compromise between soft ride and low drag pedaling unpowered. I will not be buying a bike with tires limited to 30 psi, ie fat tire bikes. I don't ride on powdered snow or fluffy beach sand. The sand at Galveston is hard enough to pedal fine with 2.1" tires.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

As it turns out, there isn't anything wrong with the bike. It's just the nature of the beast with a hub drive motor. I had a couple of Eahora 20in folding bikes that did the same. The harder I pedal, the more it feels like the brakes are being applied. I guess spinning up the motor through the planetary gears causes this. I wonder why your motor konks out on a regular basis.

NOT the nature of the beast with a geared hub motor. My Bafang G020 doesn't have the problem you describe at PAS 0.

 

[spokewrench]

DBurns said the drag increases with speed. That sounds like regenerative braking. I rejected that possibility because no Aventon model was on a list I've seen of models with this feature. I was wrong. https://www.stringbike.com/aventon-aventure-vs-level/

I assume regenerative braking requires a motor with no clutch. Coasting or pedaling, the wheel would drive the motor, but as long as no current could flow, the motor would put up no more resistance than pushing a bike backward with the controller off.

Conceptually, the motor is allowed to charge the battery only when the controller gets a signal from a brake lever. I see another possibility if the controller was not initially designed for regenerative braking: pedaling at 0 PAS. The controller closes the motor circuit in response to signals from the torque (or cadence) sensor but does not apply voltage to drive the motor; so current flows backward from the motor, which is now a dynamo.

I was wrong in saying something in the hub needed cleaning, lubing, or replacement. I think DBurns was partly right and saying it's the nature of the beast. It's probably the nature of Adventure 2s, and it probably appears in some models from other companies.

Even if it didn't interfere with PAS 0, I wouldn't want regenerative braking on a bike. I've read that the increase in range is minor, and the surges of charging current can reduce the service life of an expensive battery. If I owned an Adventure 2, I think I'd pull out the planetary gear carrier and see if Amazon or another vendor had one the same size that included a motor clutch.